[Suggestion] How To Make The Sprayers/ogris Awesomer

[Kinperor]

Problem: Ignis and Embolist are struggling to stand out as weapons (not Ogris, I'll talk about it later). Their short range turns off most people and the damage is not worth it. Using one is pretty much like using a Flux Rifle which has innate puncture but isn't all that interesting otherwise.

 

Problem for Ogris: Damaging people with the Ogris can be weird. Really weird. Sometimes you one shot some level 99 Ancients with splash, other times you score a direct hit which doesn't kill a level Sawman. Unreliability is really Ogris' only issue (apart from terrible self damage). 

 

My idea: Make them hit all the body parts at once. It's already in game in a way, all those weapons will do more damage to ragdolls because you hit several body part at once. 

 

What it changes: All three get an instant boost in raw damage output for one. It gives a new targeting mechanism to Ignis and Embolist: You don't want to aim for the head now (as with 90% other weapons out there), it is much more interesting for players to hit as much body mass as possible by hitting them with the end of the cone (too close means less damage, too far means no damage). The Ogris on the other hand would be more reliable, since now it isn't just one body part taking all the damage and applying the armor to the damage. 

 

Additional tweaks: I mean it when I say they will get a boost in raw damage. Try ragdolling someone and spraying them, it does CRAZY damage as it stands. In consequence, the weapons will probably have to be nerfed to compensate. But really, it would be an overall buffs to damage, so either a damage nerf or a damage reducer for additional body parts hit would help make the guns reasonably balanced (or close to). Or heck, just leave it that way and Acrid will finally be blown out of the water for good. A range nerf would also need to be considered since that change would make the guns crazy (Yes, even the Embolist, I used it and it's range is really longer than it is given credit for).  

 

So, any thoughts? 

[Aspari]

I think you missed something about the Embolist and Ignis. If you ragdoll an enemy and shoot them with either weapons before they get up you can near instantly kill them regardless of their level or your Ignis/Embolist mods.

 

 

Imo the Ignis is fine if used regularly against Infested. That's its main function. The Embolist... That needs a lot of work, but I think that's an anti-Grineer sidearm. 

Edited September 30, 2013 by Aspari

[Kinperor]

I think you missed something about the Embolist and Ignis. If you ragdoll an enemy and shoot them with either weapons before they get up you can near instantly kill them regardless of their level or your Ignis/Embolist mods.

 

 

Imo the Ignis is fine if used regularly against Infested. That's its main function. The Embolist... That needs a lot of work, but I think that's an anti-Grineer sidearm. 

 

I outright mentioned that trick in the OP. Please read the whole thing before commenting, it isn't even that long... 

[Aspari]

I outright mentioned that trick in the OP. Please read the whole thing before commenting, it isn't even that long... 

You said more damage, you didn't say near insta-kill.

Edited September 30, 2013 by Aspari

[Kinperor]

Shockingly, more damage can result in insta-kill. 

 

I have tried this combo extensively, I am confident in saying it doesn't instant-kill 100% of the time. 

[fatpig84]

I am kinda iffy against that as Vauban players will be up in arms. Right now it is because of vortex ragdoll is their only real reliable way of ludicrous damage. Making it applicable for everyone might indirectly nerf Vauban even more.

 

 

But if Vortex becomes a small damage amp (no more than 100%) and gets back its old DOT damage, it will be fine I supposed. 

Edited September 30, 2013 by fatpig84

[Kinperor]

I am less than worried about indirect nerfs. 

 

Mag, Banshee (I think, not sure) and Vauban have ragdolling abilities, so it isn't unique either. 

 

And generalizing the ragdoll effect doesn't really nerf anyone, I mean Mag and Vauban still group up enemies to get more suckers at once with the same ammo. Vortex/Pull will be fine. 

 

And really, any frame can ragdoll with a jump kick (slide mid air). It's just making the weapon straightforward. Why can I hit enemies on the floor for tons of damage but not when they're standing? That doesn't make much sense. I had a great time with that none-sense really, but I think it's worth it to generalize the effect for more awesomeness. 

[ALL.CAPS.GUY]

ur asking for DE to rewrite the physics for how a flame thrower works in game.

for that matter, a flame thrower uses a propellant to move the fuel away from the user. we already know pressurized fluid can cut steel, i'm sure a flaming pressurized fluid could cut through a human body. ergo, when close to a target, it would do high damage at point of impact spreading high initial, and high DOT to surrounding body parts, compiling dps til death, sweet, swift death.. and through this hole said fluid is burning further distanced targets in it's opposite "cone" spread. where low initial, and low DOT damage would be incurred due to particle spread.

 

  /  pressure(psi)  \      

 (  -------------------    )     + fuel( f ) + heat( r )    (divided by) distance = initial damage at point of contact.

  \  propellant(n)   /

 

 

where in this equation, heat refers to the temperature, as well as combustibility and damage potentials to immediate objects (2m and less +/-)

note: point of contact does not include spread for multiple points.

point(s) of contact, spread, and DOT would have to then be recalculated.

DOT would increase and spread over time, at increasing rates.

 

what i'd like to know is how one has multiple contact points with a wall of fire.

 

edit: took forever to write, was looking for a division symbol in the key map.

never found one >.>

Edited September 30, 2013 by BIackLotus

[taiiat]

The Ogris on the other hand would be more reliable, since now it isn't just one body part taking all the damage and applying the armor to the damage. 

i'm totally off topic, but uh, you know what change i'd love for Ogris? to not shake everyones' camera regardless how far away they are on the map. if being 15 tiles away from the explosion still shakes my camera, Ogris might as well deal 50,000dmg per shot. 

because if it's shaking your camera that far away, you're just breached the hull of the ship or cracked the planet in half.

 

same goes for everything in the game that shakes your camera from obnoxious distances from the explosion point. it's a really annoying 'feature' that explosions nowhere near me every second or two causes my more skill based accurate weapons to shoot almost 40° off aimpoint, while a weapon such as a Braton, will keep shooting straight through that camera shake. 

that's so ridiculous it makes me want to flip a table.

 

 

on topic:

i think we should start by making Ignis and Embolist actual chemical sprayers, instead of friggin fire/poison bullets. it's disgusting that Ignis is literally one of the worst flamethrowers i've ever seen in a video game. 

Digital Extremes does great work, but not those two weapons. they are a pitiful excuse for chemical sprayers. 

 

after that, then we can see what else this weapon type may 'need'. 

 

 

edit:

@BIackLotus - the Division symbol is "/". no font has that silly looking division symbol in it. just as Multiplication is "*". because an X in math is far too easy to misinterpret as a variable.

just some friendly information.

Edited September 30, 2013 by taiiat

[Kinperor]

ur asking for DE to rewrite the physics for how a flame thrower works in game.

 

- snip -

 

The mechanic is already in game and being used. I don't see what's the issue in making it apply when an unit isn't ragdolled, maybe you would want to enlighten me on this?

 

As for the rest, I'm really not sure what you're saying. Are you suggesting raw damage should be greater the closer you are and the DOTs would be stronger the further you are? 

[Kinperor]

- stuff - 

 

Feels about the camera shake.

 

And are you saying you agree with my idea or just that the weapons needs help? 

[ALL.CAPS.GUY]

The mechanic is already in game and being used. I don't see what's the issue in making it apply when an unit isn't ragdolled, maybe you would want to enlighten me on this?

 

As for the rest, I'm really not sure what you're saying. Are you suggesting raw damage should be greater the closer you are and the DOTs would be stronger the further you are? 

stab in the dark..?

doesn't work as it should, or isn't there, otherwise there wouldn't be a complaint

 

 

edit: no, both initial and dot are increased at closer range, due to such limited particle spread.

e.g. it doesn't feel good when someone burns a hole through ur stomach while ur still breathing.

 

particle spread is what happens to pressurized items over distance.

then there's also to take into consideration, targets behind the outer ranges of the flame thrower would be blinded by dark smoke.

Edited September 30, 2013 by BIackLotus

[Kinperor]

I really don't get your first part. No offense, but get some syntax and structure, reading and answering your posts is a chore.

 

As for your point of how damage should be dealt, I get what you mean now, but I don't think the weapons should work that way. They are after all SPRAYERS, not CUTTERS. The physic you say is sound, but for the purpose of game balance I think the sprayers shouldn't behave that way.

 

Although I think it would be really cool to have an Infested shotgun that worked like you did. But I want to give the sprayers a different mechanic than "get as close as possible" to let the shotguns have this niche.