A Hydroid Rework

[NuclearCoffeePot]

There are many frames in this game who need a rework at the moment, Titania, Hydroid, Nekros, etc. Today I want to take a look at Hydroid and explain the new abilities and changes I would want on him. Keep in mind these are purely conceptual and I am not saying they are a must have or the best option. These are merely ideas I like. 

Before we talk about ability changes I first want to talk about the ocean. The ocean is without a shadow of a doubt the most terrifying place on Earth. It is deep, dark, cold, and terrifying. If caught unprepared by it you may as well already be dead. I want to emulate these feelings In Hydroid. His abilities will therefore focus on a balance between an onslaught of relentless force that overpowers you if caught unawares(like an oceanic storm) and the silent pull of the tide, so ready to drag you in before you know it to silently end you in the watery abyss. This is what my Hydroid will try to emulate. The ferocious might of storms and the merciless grip of the deep. 

 

"The tide takes no mercy on the weak, Tenno. Will you succumb to it's grip or master it."

Now let's talk abilities. 

Quote

 

Passive- Same as the last rework concept- Passively and through the use of abilities Hydroid generates Tide, a meter on the side of his screen that similar to embers passive, effects his abilities range.

Mechanic-The Deep- A mechanic I should mention before hand is The Deep. An underwater environment hydroid can access through his undertow. The deep works using a technique used in making railjack. There are two separate environments. In this case the normal tileset, and the deep elsewhere in the skybox or in it;s own, which are connected via a portal window in this case, undertow puddle. Enemies who fall into Undertow become transported to the Deep and are suspended and begin to take dps. Hydroid can also enter the deep and move freely attacking enemies. Certain abilities also interact with the deep

 

1st ability-Torrential Downpour- casting this ability will cause a continuous downpour of rain at the target location which has several effects that last as long as they are within the area and for 5 seconds after

1. Enemies effected by torrential downpour have their armor reduced
2. Enemies are slowed
3. Enemies have a chance to slip while moving increased if they are performing a melee attack, ability, or jump
4. Enemies become drenched after spending a certain period of time within the rain. At this point the armor reduction is increased, there guns have a chance to jam, and they have a slower cc recovery(takes them longer to recover from staggers, knockdowns, etc)

If cast while 4 is active Torrential Downpour will create artillery that falls amidst the rain, homing in near enemies and exploding on impact knocking enemies down

If cast from within the deep Torrential Downpour will spawn above and enemies within the deep will receive the armor reduction.

2nd ability-Tentacle Swarm- From his 4th I moved this to his second ability- Casting this ability will spawn tentacles around the environment which grasp and damage enemies- these tentacles are however a good deal different from the current tentacles.

New Tentacles- New tentacles grab only one enemy at a time and rather then slap or throw instead crush enemies dealing viral and impact damage

Base number of tentacles increased

Tentacles hold enemies still in the air to be attacked

When casting 2 there is a chance for bonus tentacles to spawn in places effected by 1 and 3

While undertow is active enhanced tentacles will spawn from within, coming upwards from the kraken that stares up from it's depths- these tentacles instantly execute enemies who fall below 20% hp while inside of the deep.

Using 2 while in undertow will cause tentacles to pull the first enemy they grab through a mini-portal to The Deep before re-surging.

 

Holding cast on 2 and 1 increase the range significantly at a tide cost though Tide will be returned for each enemy effected by 1 and killed by 2

3rd ability- Undertow- 

Undertow now acts as a portal into The Deep. Undertow can be teleported into while outside of the puddle to instantly sink into the surface layer(same perspective as current undertow) pressing shift will then cause you to descend into the Deep itself. To exit the deep hold 3 to enter the top layer and then jump to exit. Other then this change undertow has not altered that much. It now creates tide for every enemy dragged into it as well and give's hydroids undertow a much more active play style.

 

4th ability- Riptide-Surround yourself in a whirlwind of water and transform into a watery form

Activating Riptide will cause you to enter a watery state granting you various benefit's

-Increased attack speed

-High chance for attacks to pass through you

- Sprinting causes an infant kraken(think current kraken size) to spawn beneath you, allowing you to ride it for vastly increased movement speed while on the ground- Kraken will respawn under you when you land

-Riptide does not cost energy and instead pulls from the tide meter unless you have no tide

 

New Concept-I played a load of hydroid recently trying to get a better grasp on what I feel needs changed 

passive-Pilfer- Enemies affected by hydroids abilities have an increased resource drop chance- makes pilfering swarm innate- now you can get increased drop chances without sacrificing corrosive barrage augment 

1-Torrential Downpour-Call down a downpour of liquid fury in the form of rain and falling projectiles that explode on contact with terrain dealing damage and knocking down enemies in range- charging the attack will increase the range and number of projectiles that fall per second-

-Projectiles that strike undertow will be brought into the zone and home in on the nearest enemy, dealing bonus damage-

Enemies effected by the rain have reduced visibility and speed preventing them from attacking you unless you are close-

2-Tidal surge- 2 parts- 1st, On tap cast surge forward a short distance and transform into a wave, after the initial dash gain control over the wave, reducing it's movement speed but allowing you to turn- Bullet jumping pauses the duration of the wave and causes you to exit that form, resuming on landing- The wave grows in size the longer it lasts with the growth ratio based on range- the wave deals damage and picks enemies up, causing them to fallow in your wake-

Hold cast-Riptide- Transform into a watery state causing a % of attacks to pass through you without harming you, while in this form gain increased attack speed and movement speed- will talk more about this in 3-

Abilities in Riptide are altered- 

1-1 now fires a shotgun blast of pellets forward, dealing damage to enemies with infinite punchthrough dealing 100 impact, 100 slash, and 300 Puncture damage- hold cast to continually fire waves while slowing movement and making it a two handed action

2-Casting 2 will cancel the ability when held and perform a short dash with no followup on tap

3-when on top of an undertow(not inside it) you will transform the surface into a whirlpool- causing enemies to be dragged to your location along it's surface rather then be sucked in- gain tide meter by killing enemies effected- casting inside the three will reduce the radius of the undertow- initiate the wirlpool effect, and cause it to follow beneath your feet- recast to cancel the effect

4-Tentacles will only spawn a limited number and they spawn around your current location

 

3-Undertow- Undertow creates a zone of water at the target location- utilizing portal mechanics the surface of the water acts like a portal to a seperate skybox- this skybox room is not very large but is well big enough to hold many enemies- the room is underwater causing enemies to float, becoming inactive(suspended- counts as lifted effect) and taking consistent finisher dps, Hydroid can freely swim through this zone- At base undertow has a single energy cost and only drains when hydroid enters the Deep(name for the underwater zone)- Drain is consistent, not based on enemies- The point of the Deep effect is to make undertow more interactive- For every enemy within your undertow Hydroid gains "TIde" per second which increases the range on his next ability cast- when casting his Riptide it will not cost energy but instead drain from your tide meter

-Recast undertow at an area to move it to that location- refreshes duration- reduced energy cost- if cast with available Tide the undertow will grow accordingly when it reaches that location

-Can have several undertows at once- each cast after the first has a reduced range(two thirds of the prior cast)-scales with the initial size of undertow- 3 undertows at once

-All undertows portal enemies to the same space

 

4-Kraken-Kraken tentacles have changed, initial cast is different-

Casting Kraken summons Intangable water tentacles within it's cast location- these tentacles each grab one enemy and hold them in place, slowly squeezing dealing impact damage, and poisoning them with barbs, dealing a viral proc on the first hit plus viral dot with a % chance to proc viral again- 

Tentacle spawn number is x number plus 1 tentacle for every x number of enemies in the initial casting range(base 3-decreased by power strength) 

Interactions-WHile active

2-in tap cast tentacles will spawn at locations you have been to

3-Tentacles spawn with increased numbers on the surface of active undertows, grabbing enemies outside and dragging them under, while enemies inside undertow are attacked by the physical tentacles of the real kraken that lurks in it's depths, these deal same base damage as normal tentacles but increase in effectiveness by the average level of enemies inside Undertow-

Casting kraken will increase the duration of undertow's by a % of their initial duration

 

Other Things of note-

Repeated casts of 1 & 4 while other's are active will decrease the charge time by up to 50%- 25% per already active zone- Bonuses of these extra zones have diminishing effects the more they are layered- thus it is best to spread them over distances

That's my updated rework idea. Let me know what you think.

 

Edited December 24, 2019 by NuclearCoffeePot

[kapn655321]

25 minutes ago, NuclearCoffeePot said:

generate "Tide" in his own meter. This Tide increases Hydroid's range the higher it is and can be consumed by his 2 as an energy source.

The reason- The tide meter reduces the need for range mods

I'm torn on this idea.
Reason being, I build my Hydroid with 68% duration 100% range to get a serviceable 2.
Going much further than that finds me going past what I want to hit, or launching off cliffs.

So on one hand, I'd have control if I wanted to go further, which I like.
On the other, I'm stuck with a meter that will make me go too far when I don't want to.
At the least we would need a very responsive move cancel, hopefully that conserves that meter for when it's wanted.
Integrating that meter into other systems to be able to control when you have too much, would have tons of potential.

Your idea of the deep could work a lot like a lifted state, and they'd be underwater and just floating.
I feel like your concept should be tried on a Limbo rework.. actually taking enemies elsewhere.
(Calling my favorite ability sucky...) Undertow could benefit from some spice, and this idea is going places.

Edited December 9, 2019 by kapn655321

[NuclearCoffeePot]

14 minutes ago, kapn655321 said:

I'm torn on this idea.
Reason being, I build my Hydroid with 68% duration 100% range to get a serviceable 2.
Going much further than that finds me going past what I want to hit, or launching off cliffs.

So on one hand, I'd have control if I wanted to go further, which I like.
On the other, I'm stuck with a meter that will make me go too far when I don't want to.

That is precisely the reason I chose to change 2 to a mobility enhancement with bonuses and tankiness rather then a hard to control dash

15 minutes ago, kapn655321 said:

our idea of the deep could work a lot like a lifted state, and they'd be underwater and just floating.
I feel like your concept should be tried on a Limbo rework.. actually taking enemies elsewhere.
(Calling my favorite ability sucky...) Undertow could benefit from some spice, and this idea is going places.

That is indeed the idea, I don't think limbo needs it though his 4 is fine and if he was transitioning into an entirely different world with a shift press It would have to be an exact parallel of the map above. And I like undertow to. I just wish it was more interactive and fun. The idea of drowning enemies in my puddley self is fun but It is not in practice. I like having his puddle be The Deep. It really makes hydroid feel like he commands the ocean and not a koi pond- Also I think it would be really cool if rather then our mini kraken you could see the eyes of a giant kraken at the bottom of the puddle.

[kapn655321]

I love your idea:

28 minutes ago, NuclearCoffeePot said:

transforms Hydroid into a watery form surrounded by a whirlpool that pulls enemies towards you. While in this watery state most attacks pass through Hydroid and those that do not have their dmg reduced.

You have this for your 2.
I was thinking about this for his 4.

Example:
His 2 I'd like Cloudwalker, but on the ground, still dragging enemies as it does, no blind needed.
Snappier controls would lend well to your meter! 😃
His 4 would toggle channel that watery form state if held, and cast whirlpools if tapped.
If those whirlpools take people to the deep, that would also be righteous.

My head is spinning with ideas!

Ok, so. Water state = Pirate mode.
Casting Whirlpools or using your 2 will bring the Kraken into your attacks.
The Kraken pulls them to the "DEEP", holding/crushing as suggested, but under water.

Personal wish: His 1 would be rain (for stealth, slip and fall hazards for enemies, enemy debuff, energy orb chance)
Pirate mode could cause his 1 like you suggested, with augmented function.
     Also wanted to ask, your 1's suggestion, is that like a multishot kind of function? Wouldn't mind elaboration.

Been maining Hydroid since 2014, glad folks have such great imaginations for his reworks.
 

[kapn655321]

You mentioned random puddles that take enemies to the Deep.

...That one I could see causing enemies to be unaccounted for a little too often.
That's something that perhaps could be toggled into Pirate mode.

There's been great ideas for puddles, but I don't know that they should default as mini undertows,
or that would not be optimal when keeping track of enemy positions.
If that was always like that, they would have to be "GONE" enough to end defense missions while alive, like Nyx's control.
Possibly fine, but I'm already thinking that should have some control over it to negate that potential.

Edited December 9, 2019 by kapn655321

[NuclearCoffeePot]

2 minutes ago, kapn655321 said:

His 4 would toggle channel that watery form state if held, and cast whirlpools if tapped.
If those whirlpools take people to the deep, that would also be righteous.

2 minutes ago, kapn655321 said:

Ok, so. Water state = Pirate mode.
Casting Whirlpools or using your 2 will bring the Kraken into your attacks.
The Kraken pulls them to the "DEEP", holding/crushing as suggested, but under water.

SO what your saying is 2 remains it's current wave with better controls while holding 4 toggles on the water state which lets you cast whirlpools and 2 to drag enemies into the deep to be finished off later. An interesting Idea. The mechanics for 4 whirlpool casting would have to be smooth, perhaps having 4 toggle and then certain abilities replaced so in normal mode 1 is the rain- water mode it is artillery and you can cast multiple smaller 3's to suck in enemies

5 minutes ago, kapn655321 said:

Personal wish: His 1 would be rain (for stealth, slip and fall hazards for enemies, enemy debuff, energy orb chance)
Pirate mode could cause his 1 like you suggested, with augmented function.
     Also wanted to ask, your 1's suggestion, is that like a multishot kind of function? Wouldn't mind elaboration.

An interesting wish, I have never thought of hydroid as subtle. Making it a continuous downpour that doesn't really deal damage but debuffs enemies and makes them trip and get waterlogged for slower recovery and movements is interesting

As for the 1 suggestion, if you are reffering to the bullet number by meters squared it basically means that power strength, rather then effecting the number of bullets per wave flat, will effect a number of bullets created per square meter. This is important because without it if you have  a wide range 1 the bullets will be too spread out and might not hit nearly as effectively. In a way it ensures that the number of bullets scales indirectly with range as well as power strength.

[NuclearCoffeePot]

5 minutes ago, kapn655321 said:

You mentioned random puddles that take enemies to the Deep.

...That one I could see causing enemies to be unaccounted for a little too often.
That's something that perhaps could be toggled into Pirate mode.

There's been great ideas for puddles, but I don't know that they should default as mini undertows,
or that would not be optimal when keeping track of enemy positions.
If that was always like that, they would have to be "GONE" enough to end defense missions while alive, like Nyx's control.
Possibly fine, but I'm already thinking that should have some control over it to negate that potential.

I think you might have a little misconception, when I say mini-undertow remember that the puddles from both 3 and those that are created randomly are just a mechanical portal into a single underwater environment, no matter what Hydroid can find them by entering the deep by entering his 3. Since there is and always will be an enemy counter in his 3 he will know if there are stragglers and then pick them off. Or perhaps when there are only a few enemies in undertow the kraken can eat them, who knows

[kapn655321]

1 minute ago, NuclearCoffeePot said:

perhaps having 4 toggle and then certain abilities replaced so in normal mode 1 is the rain- water mode it is artillery and you can cast multiple smaller 3's to suck in enemies

I'll do ya one better for his 3.

Pirate mode undertow.
Enter the Deep.
Hold when casting to teleport to a whirlpool.x

[kapn655321]

1 minute ago, NuclearCoffeePot said:

no matter what Hydroid can find them by entering the deep by entering his 3.

And my parallel to Limbo is that, taking them outside of other player's engagement and agency can be problematic.

[NuclearCoffeePot]

Just now, kapn655321 said:

And my parallel to Limbo is that, taking them outside of other player's engagement and agency can be problematic.

Perhaps if players can also enter undertow. This already exits with his augment we can make it a regular function. 

[NuclearCoffeePot]

4 minutes ago, kapn655321 said:

Hold when casting to teleport to a whirlpool.x

Do you mean hold 4 while inside undertow

[kapn655321]

Nah, there's no held function for undertow currently.
Like a Really fancy and expensive version of loki's swap tele to decoy.

Holding 4 while in undertow would still allow you to turn on or off pirate mode if it's burning energy too fast.

[kapn655321]

I'll try to combine these ideas a bit to give you a better picture.
Passive- Tide Meter:

4 hours ago, NuclearCoffeePot said:

Hydroid passively and through abilities generate "Tide" in his own meter. This Tide increases Hydroid's range the higher it is and can be consumed by his 2 as an energy source.

Tempest Barrage:
Tap to cast on target location.
Create a shower of rain that deals no damage, with no alarming cast sound.
Enemies effected have reduced detection of visibility/noise level by 40% aiding party stealth.
Enemy damage and movement speed are reduced by 20% while under it's effects.
Enemies killed under affect have a 15% chance to drop an energy orb.
For every 1m the enemy moves, they have a 30% chance to "slip and fall," to prone.
Hold cast to increase duration (like now) and add chance to jam enemy weapons between 8% to 20% fully charged
                                                         once every 3 seconds doused. (jam lasts 6 seconds)
All bonuses increase with str.
       One handed all upper body cast allowing for cast during reload and mobility.
       Effect active for 6 seconds after enemies leave rain.
       Successive casts within 3m of original cast stack towards the duration with diminishing returns.
                                                                                              (think perpetual vortex, or amesha benevolent decoy)

Tide meter - Enemies doused with this ability add x% towards tide meter.
                    Hold to cast to exhaust 30% of tide meter, increasing the radius of the tempest area.
                    While meter is high, chance to leave puddles behind with chance to inflict enemies w/ stagger and knockdown.

Tidal Surge:
Drags enemies the same as now, but moves like if Cloudwalker had gravity.
Hold cast to instead drink a portion of your tide meter as energy.

Tide meter- The higher the tide, the more radius and movement speed.

Undertow:
Same, with Currative Undertow augment function improved.
30% health gained over 3 seconds, stacks every 2 seconds, up to 3 times
(row, row, row your boat stacks of healing pulse.)
This effect begins the moment an ally steps on the puddle.
Allies may shoot the surface of the water to split their damage across all enemies within.
Hold cast undertow to go to the location of any active Whirlpools (4th ability below)
Casting Tempest Barrage on target from undertow will increase puddle chance.

Tide meter- Higher means larger radius, and greater damage per ticks to enemies under water.

Rip Current:
Cast a Whirlpool as a proxy Undertow, instead of tentacles.
Shooting the surface of the water splits the damage across all enemies within.
Enemies auras do not cross out of the whirlpool.
Tide meter- Higher means larger radius, and greater damage per ticks to enemies.

HOLD TO TOGGLE PIRATE MODE.
Channeled state converting Hydroid into part watery form that alters All abilities.
Gains between 40%-65% chance to evade attacks (like Baruuk) depending Tide Meter.
                          Tempest barrage: Now rains Grape Shot (as

4 hours ago, NuclearCoffeePot said:

My Idea- 

                          with corrosive. Higher tide meter increases multishot up to 100%
                          Tidal Surge: ***Hold Cast to Summon quasi-exalted tentacles for arms.
                                                  capable of pulling enemies to prone at melee range, dealing Viral and Impact.
                                                  movement increase only engages when you Sprinting to allow mobility with tentacle form.
                                                  Tentacles will seek up to 3 of their own targets per sec from surrounding area,
                                                  gathering enemies tightly in a neat pile, instead of displacing/ragdoll-ing them.
                                                  Range of tentacles reach 60% of current range at low tide meter, 100% at max tide meter.
                                                  Effect will end upon running out of either Tide or energy. Not cancelled by Nullifier. Hold cast to end early.
                          Undertow: Go underwater into, "THE DEEP," as a separate zone where enemies that have fallen in are "lifted" suspended in water.
                                           Your undertow puddle remains as a portal to this zone, as you are within attacking the enemies.
                                           (I do not know whether allies should come here.)
                                           Hold cast Undertow to teleport to the location of an active Whirlpool for 50% casting cost. (Whether above or below)
                                           If there is no active Whirlpool to teleport to, hold casting undertow vaccums enemies within THE DEEP to you, if not being held by Kraken.
                          Rip Current: Tentacles now rise from the whirlpools, snatching up enemies like now. 3 Per second, up to 7 enemies, more with higher str.
                                               Low tide meter, it will slap them around like now. High tide meter, it pulls them to THE DEEP.
                                               Enemies within the deep are held and crushed randomly by the Kraken, (who's full body is within the deep!) dealing Viral damage 
                                               with impact on crush.
                                                         Using Tempest Barrage while in THE DEEP commands the kraken to crush all enemies held. Hold for hard crush.
                                                                                               puddles form around outside of Whirlpool on surface.
                                                         Tidal Surge while in THE DEEP works like Ash's Teleport in function, 'bamf' swimming around to enemies in clutches of Kraken.
        
 

Edited December 9, 2019 by kapn655321

[kapn655321]

In THE DEEP, we could have a movement like a slower experimental flight archwing.
Being under water would be disorienting, but it's sort of an optional place to be.
"Flying," to the surface of the water would give you the regular Undertow view.
The soundscape there could be amazing.. with the muffled sound of ship bells and creaking wood hulls..
Spooky under water groans, bellows, or whale songs.

I imagine THE DEEP as a "Room" with enemies able to collide with a boundary like a shallow Erlenmeyer flask,
roughly 2x the size at it's base of your Undertow/Whirlpool.
Pushing enemies against it's boundary will force them to float closer to the surface, or be knocked out.
Whirlpool as the portal to THE DEEP will pull them back in, where as Undertow alone will not,
giving some selective control on who you boot out of the water before getting down to business..
also preventing enemies from floating endlessly away into the distance.
 

[NuclearCoffeePot]

13 hours ago, kapn655321 said:

In THE DEEP, we could have a movement like a slower experimental flight archwing.
Being under water would be disorienting, but it's sort of an optional place to be.

Yes. I intended that hydroid would swim rather then using archwing or anything like that. 

13 hours ago, kapn655321 said:

I imagine THE DEEP as a "Room" with enemies able to collide with a boundary like a shallow Erlenmeyer flask,
roughly 2x the size at it's base of your Undertow/Whirlpool.

That was indeed the idea. Naturally the environment needs boundaries.

 

 

Also I'm going to edit my original post soon with a new set of ideas based on what we've talked about here 🙂 

[kapn655321]

13 minutes ago, NuclearCoffeePot said:

I intended that hydroid would swim rather then using archwing

What I'm thinking though is that, if they were to make a floaty free movement system..
They might just wind up making a slower version of experimental archwing, without the archwing.
The asset already exists, so tweaking a few parameters to make it a bit more like swimming could be functionally pleasing.

 

[kapn655321]

16 minutes ago, NuclearCoffeePot said:

Naturally the environment needs boundaries.

Yep. Like, an invisible boundary, surrounded by an underwater skybox.
Would be nice to display some of Steve's Godrays and scattering with the new lighting.

I figure Kraken would take up about 1/3rd of that room, kind of clipped halfway into the "wall" with it's tentacles proffered forward,
clutching and coiled around enemies.. reaching out of the surface. and pulling enemies in.
It's height on the wall would rise with low tide, and fall with high tide, allowing it to either be drowning or whooping enemies around outside if it's too shallow.

Thanks again for the thread, ideas, and feedback. 😃
Looking forward to what you come up with.