Changes To Heavy Caliber. Reimbursement?

[TheSphynx]

There has been a lot of talk lately about the new Corrupt mods. Some are great, some are not worth the effort. Recently, there has be discussion about the Heavy Caliber corrupt mod. As a Flux/Ogris/Torid user, I was extremely excited for this mod. After about 4 hours of grinding, I finally picked it up. From what other players had stated, this Mods shines the best on weapons with little to none recoil. The instant I picked it up, I dropped 1.4 Million Credits, ~100 Rare V Fusion Cores, and MANY Common and Uncommon Fusion cores into it. All 100+ Rare V Cores were saved since I started playing (600+ hours in game). They were my testament to all my time and hard work put into Warframe. I did not have any regrets putting them into Heavy Caliber (Currently at Rank 9.5).

I log into the forums today and I am informed that there will be changes to Heavy Caliber. According to Scott and the Prime Time Livestream, they will be adding a base recoil to any weapon that has this mod equipped. THIS will completely change weapon mechanics. The reason these mods were release was to apply them strategically to certain weapons or warframes to add to weaknesses and greatly increase the strengths. When I dumped ALL of my resources into getting this mod as high as possible, I wasn't expecting a "Mod just came out, but we are nerfing it immediately. Hope you didn't drop everything into maxing it!" It's ridiculous and a complete slap to the face.

I can't even count how many times DE has released something and IMMEDIATELY changed it. I have never seen them do this to a Mod though. I mean, you have a set of mods in the game that make you COMPLETELY invulnerable, why aren't those getting touched? Those mods took close to zero resources to Max and when combined you will never die in a mission.

I can't say anything to make DE not change the mod, but I can at least hope they will do something for the people that dropped all their resources into ranking this mod up. As for Scott, how about, instead of telling random people that you are changing mods for the worst, you tell your community! You know? Maybe before another person throws all their resources away to a mod that is going to get hit.

Talk about some real trust issues. I'm on my last straw with DE. Everything is hidden and kept quiet. When they get called out they point fingers at "bugs" or "hackers". After the apology post, do they really think "Here is 50 Plat!" is enough to just make us all forget they lied to us? Is 50 Plat all it takes to earn our trust back? No, encrypted data tables and wasted resources are what should gain our trust back. Right? I can tell you straight up, if this is how DE plays their game, I will be out and I will not be going alone.

[alphex]

I'm mad that my gun won't be as OP anymore Ima cry some more!

 

First off

Calm yourself breath deeply calm down..........

next thing

They stated this was a glitch and will be fixing it honestly I don't see the problem at all. Stop being spoiled just because you can't get what you want. Hell bro I doubt you will have trouble with recoil on flux anyway since I can use it on a supra easy.

Edited October 11, 2013 by alphex

[Namacyst]

If you think to yourself "Nice the downside of the mod is that it increases recoil.. so i equip it on a weapon with no recoil so i have no downside and only the benefit" then why the cry that it will get a nerf like this? The mod is still good.

[Khranitel]

That's just perfect example how spoiled this community is.

[alphex]

That's just perfect example how spoiled this community is.

This is why we can't have nice things.

Edited October 11, 2013 by alphex

[BIossome]

Adding recoil to 1-shot weapons doesn't do anything. You still have the Ogris and etc.

Edited October 11, 2013 by BIossome

[EvanTheNewbie]

Your fault for thinking that you can double the damage you do at 0 cost.

[alphaslider]

And the whine fest has begun, get your cheese out. 

[Feindfeuer]

The Mod description did not say anything about adding a base-recoil, so DE is not fixing a glitch/bug by adding it, but revamping a mod that is overpowered when used with certain weapons which was not realized before patch deployment. I can honestly understand how someone could be realy frustrated when the base mechanics of something change that he invested a lot of time and effort into, in this case a large part of his fusion core collection and credits, just to see it all be destroyed a few hours later.

So I can get behind the refund of money and cores for all fusioned heavy recoil mods once that 'fix' hits, especially in such extreme cases.

Luckily I myself didn't have luck with the RNG yet, nor do I have a large enough mod collection to boost any of the new mods that heavily.

Edit:

Your fault for thinking that you can double the damage you do at 0 cost.

First, there is an energy cost associated with the mod, so there is a cost for adding damage with the mod.

Second, the DE Mod system has almost always been about adding power with NO drawback. So when you find a way to make the drawbacks of the new weapons work with your guns you don't think 'OMG I FOUND A BUG' but 'yeah, that's how I should use it'. My lower recoil/lower firerate mod made my Grakata extremly comfortable to use with no real drawback, do I have to fear that the mod will add a minimum recoil if the weapon gets too effective with a mod combination? Without telling me on the description that is.

And finally, People can still double the damage with zero drawbacks on single shot weapons where the recoil does not effect follow up shots thanks to the low refire rate.

Edited October 11, 2013 by Feindfeuer

[TheSphynx]

The Mod description did not say anything about adding a base-recoil, so DE is not fixing a glitch/bug by adding it, but revamping a mod that is overpowered when used with certain weapons which was not realized before patch deployment. I can honestly understand how someone could be realy frustrated when the base mechanics of something change that he invested a lot of time and effort into, in this case a large part of his fusion core collection and credits, just to see it all be destroyed a few hours later.

So I can get behind the refund of money and cores for all fusioned heavy recoil mods once that 'fix' hits, especially in such extreme cases.

Luckily I myself didn't have luck with the RNG yet, nor do I have a large enough mod collection to boost any of the new mods that heavily.

Thank you for understanding this post. I greatly appreciate your voiced opinion.

[HAYABU5A]

That's just perfect example how spoiled this community is.

 

so true, like spoiled children its hard to stomach sometimes

 

once the heavy caliber bug is corrected and its working as intended, as it was never suppose to have no recoil on non recoil weapons, you can still use it and enjoy the challenge of aiming at anything 

 

its pretty obvious to anyone a corrupted dual mod is always going to have a positive and negative effect its not DEs fault people make bad choices 

[Loser]

The Mod description did not say anything about adding a base-recoil, so DE is not fixing a glitch/bug by adding it, but revamping a mod that is overpowered when used with certain weapons which was not realized before patch deployment. I can honestly understand how someone could be realy frustrated when the base mechanics of something change that he invested a lot of time and effort into, in this case a large part of his fusion core collection and credits, just to see it all be destroyed a few hours later.

So I can get behind the refund of money and cores for all fusioned heavy recoil mods once that 'fix' hits, especially in such extreme cases.

Luckily I myself didn't have luck with the RNG yet, nor do I have a large enough mod collection to boost any of the new mods that heavily.

Edit:

First, there is an energy cost associated with the mod, so there is a cost for adding damage with the mod.

Second, the DE Mod system has almost always been about adding power with NO drawback. So when you find a way to make the drawbacks of the new weapons work with your guns you don't think 'OMG I FOUND A BUG' but 'yeah, that's how I should use it'. My lower recoil/lower firerate mod made my Grakata extremly comfortable to use with no real drawback, do I have to fear that the mod will add a minimum recoil if the weapon gets too effective with a mod combination? Without telling me on the description that is.

And finally, People can still double the damage with zero drawbacks on single shot weapons where the recoil does not effect follow up shots thanks to the low refire rate.

 

I support this opinion. If there's a "minimum recoil" added to a gun which in his description says "recoilless", I'd like to know that it's a lie beforehand.

 

After all, who am I to trust a weapon description?

 

EDIT: That said, compared to the pistol version +6% damage, rifle version of +15% damage was just to good to be true, so nerfs were somehow expected, though not of this kind. Well, depends on how bad it's gonna be. It's not like we wield those weapons because we can't deal with recoil...

Edited October 11, 2013 by Loser

[alphex]

The Mod description did not say anything about adding a base-recoil, so DE is not fixing a glitch/bug by adding it, but revamping a mod that is overpowered when used with certain weapons which was not realized before patch deployment. I can honestly understand how someone could be realy frustrated when the base mechanics of something change that he invested a lot of time and effort into, in this case a large part of his fusion core collection and credits, just to see it all be destroyed a few hours later.

So I can get behind the refund of money and cores for all fusioned heavy recoil mods once that 'fix' hits, especially in such extreme cases.

Luckily I myself didn't have luck with the RNG yet, nor do I have a large enough mod collection to boost any of the new mods that heavily.

Edit:

First, there is an energy cost associated with the mod, so there is a cost for adding damage with the mod.

Second, the DE Mod system has almost always been about adding power with NO drawback. So when you find a way to make the drawbacks of the new weapons work with your guns you don't think 'OMG I FOUND A BUG' but 'yeah, that's how I should use it'. My lower recoil/lower firerate mod made my Grakata extremly comfortable to use with no real drawback, do I have to fear that the mod will add a minimum recoil if the weapon gets too effective with a mod combination? Without telling me on the description that is.

And finally, People can still double the damage with zero drawbacks on single shot weapons where the recoil does not effect follow up shots thanks to the low refire rate.

When you mod a gun you tend to change its mechanics in real life so I think it would apply here too.

[TheSphynx]

That's just perfect example how spoiled this community is.

Spoiled? Dropping Over 100 Rare V Fusion Cores and 1.4 Million credits into something that is later announced "will be changed" is spoiled?

 

Your fault for thinking that you can double the damage you do at 0 cost.

A Nova can equip Fleeting Expertise and will gain without any disadvantages. (Only effects Null Star, which is one of her most unused skills)

A Mag can equip Blind Rage to increase her armor ignoring Pull, for only 12 Energy.

There are so many more skills and weapons that gain without disadvantages. Initially, it was thought this was planned. That would allow you to go into certain types of builds on warframes. (i.e. Iron Skin Build, Mag Pull Build, Nuke Nova Build). THAT is why I originally thought these mods were done like this.

If you are just coming to this thread to say "whine" or "cry more". Don't even post. You're just another bystander adding nothing to a serious discussion about players that have been misled into using their resources. If you can understand how that feels, to be misled, I appreciate you reading this thread and I encourage you to post. Thank you.

[KillingXMaki]

I as well understand your extreme frustration and I do believe compensation of resources can be a viable solution here, but I also must point out, for the sake of being completely honest, that 1) the saying "too good to be true" applies here, and 2) almost nothing in the video game industry stays the same 24-48 hours after an update. I'm not saying it was wrong, nor an unwise decision to beef up a mod with so many resources so quickly after the release, however it may not have been the best decision in terms of stability. 

 

That being said, people like yourself put valuable time and resources into a certain mod for certain benefits that were clearly stated from the beginning. Changing those benefits after the resources have been given, I believe, is not a morally sound choice to make without some sort of compensation, in this case the most obvious answer would be to refund resources spent on the item for it's original statistics. If the player then wants to re-invest them in the same mod, that is their choice; however now they are re-investing into a new set of statistics.

 

You don't pay for a Lamborghini and after your funds have been removed, the seller changes your car to a Ferrari--both may be amazing, and nearly identical, but what you spent your resources on originally, in the end, is not what you are receiving, and you are not being given an option to withdraw those resources, and I feel like that is wrong.

 

THAT BEING SAID, I don't even know if DE has the ability to go back through all the fusion history of any single given mod for any specific player. It may just be a lumped value--once you reach the first level, the value of the mod changed from base 0 to base 1, however the code doesn't keep a record of exactly what you put into the mod to get it there in the first place.

 

A viable solution really does need to come up here, as changing the terms of an agreement after payment has been made doesn't work in any scenario.

[SquirmyBurrito]

Seriously people, OP isn't complaining so much about the mod being changed as he/she is about having invested so many resources into it without being warned that a mod is going to be changed to something he/she may not want. The mod description did not originally state that it would add recoil to recoil-less guns. It didn't even mention them. This mod isn't being fixed, 0 + X% is still 0. 

From now on, the safest assumption about ANYTHING that DE adds to this game is 'Give it a week before you invest anything into it'. Yes, yes 'this is a beta' we know.

[qqchurch]

Wait, does that mean the Dera will also get a recoil? 

 

....that's, like, it's main selling point. D: (apart from the 100% accuracy)

[Silraed]

I think the simple fact is this, it is still in open beta (sure there are aspects that most would not consider being open beta, but it is still beta nonetheless.). You simply can't play a beta and expect nothing to change, however unexpectedly.

 

Ultimately whether this scenario is worthy of compensation is completely up to DE. They have no obligation to reimburse anyone, but they might choose to.

[SquirmyBurrito]

Wait, does that mean the Dera will also get a recoil? 

 

....that's, like, it's main selling point. D: (apart from the 100% accuracy)

 

Yes, when the mod is equipped.

[TheSphynx]

You don't pay for a Lamborghini and after your funds have been removed, the seller changes your car to a Ferrari--both may be amazing, and nearly identical, but what you spent your resources on originally, in the end, is not what you are receiving, and you are not being given an option to withdraw those resources, and I feel like that is wrong.

This is exactly what I am talking about. It's not the fact they are changing the mod, it's more of.. They're changing it into something I wouldn't have dropped all my resources into.

[Darayas]

Let me get this right.

 

You are playing a game that is still clearly in beta. You rush for a mod that's only just been released, and that will inevitably experience some kind of tweak in the future - not just because it's just been released right off the bat, but also because since it's beta, developers are waiting on our responses to see how it ought to be changed. 

 

You drop everything you have into upgrading the mod immediately, in spite of all this. Then, you get onto the forums to slam DE for your own hastiness and lack of foresight.

 

This sense of entitlement sickens me. You will not be missed when you leave.  

[KillingXMaki]

From now on, the safest assumption about ANYTHING that DE adds to this game is 'Give it a week before you invest anything into it'. Yes, yes 'this is a beta' we know.

Thank you, simplified version of the beginning of my TL:DR above. Putting so many resources into something that isn't even 24 hours old could be called a slightly hasty decision, but there was no warning nor original description to indicate anything would change, and this is where it gets all moral.

[Lazer]

Send a support ticket. See if you can get the fusions undone. 

Edited October 11, 2013 by iTzLazer

[UberNuby]

I think for continuous weapons the added recoil should only pull the weapon upwards, with no horizontal recoil. It would allow flux rifle users to compensate for the recoil while still being accurate.

[KillingXMaki]

Send a support ticket. See if you can get the fusions undone. 

I've actually heard that they can undo your last transaction, be it buying something from the market or selling an item to free up inventory space. I do not know whether they can do that for fusions, however.