Concept for a new multi-form frame.

[-LOF-.XinesMC]

Introduction:

Our concept is that of a sentient that is in the process of being overtaken by the infestation. The functionality of the form changing was inspired by Equinox's first ability.

Our original inspiration for this concept was the first artwork which is created for the "Broken Warframe".

The general idea of the frame is that it has a neutral state in which it remains in a hybrid-form, which is unlike Equinox.

The sentient-form identity is based around the sentient adaptive damage reduction and shielding capabilities.

The infested-form identity is based around the infested's closed range combat style, toxin damage and self-destructive recklessness.

 

Kit:

Base Stats:

• Health: 125 (Rank 0)
• Armor: 100
• Shield: 50 (Rank 0)
• Energy: 150 (Rank 0)
• Sprint Speed: 1.1
• Polarities: 1Vazarin [D] and 1Madurai [V]
• Aura: 1 Naramon [Dash]

 

Passive:

• Hybrid: None.
• Sentient: Gain 200 extra armor (affected by armor mods such as Steel Fiber)
• Infested: Gain 50 extra health (affected by health mods such as Vitality). Gains passive health regeneration (1% max health per second)

 

1st Ability: 25 Energy Cost // 25 Second Duration [100% Duration]

Changes form from Hybrid to either Infested or Sentient for a given duration.

To change from Hybrid to Infested you must [TAP] the first ability

To change from Hybrid to Sentient you must [HOLD] the first ability.

To change from Infested/Sentient to Hybrid you must [TAP] the first ability whilst in one of the forms.

Once the duration runs out, the opposing form will burst free, balancing the frame back to it's Hybrid state.

KEY NOTE: Any abilities active while you change back to the Hybrid state, will be deactivated.

 

2nd Ability: 50 Energy Cost // Channeled Ability

• Hybrid: Adaptive Damage Reduction (up to 50% of incoming damage). Status Damage Effects reduced (up to 50% of status damage). No immunity to non-damaging status effects. To gain the full effects of this ability atleast 130% Power Strength is required.
• Sentient: Adaptive Damage Reduction (up to 90% of incoming damage). Hybrid form's Status Damage Reduction is removed, for a large increase in adaptive damage reduction reflecting Sentient playstyle. To gain full effect of this ability atleast 175% Power Strength is required.
• Infested: Full Status Immunity, which can include nearby allies. Range is unaffected by mods. This ability resembles the Ancient Healers found in infested tilesets. (25m range, can't be changed). Hybrid form's Adaptive Damage Reduction is removed, for the full status immunity.

KEY NOTE: Deactivated upon end of the first ability duration.

 

3rd Ability: 75 Energy Cost // 12m Range [unaffected by mods]

• Hybrid: Slam a Sentient Shield (which is attached to left arm) into ground for an AoE Toxin damage effect. Strips 50% armour for enemies (Cannot be reapplied to affected enemies)
• Sentient: Shield (located on left arm which covers 60 degrees of the direction that the frame is facing) will block incoming damage, which reflects bullets. Enemies which are hit by the reflected bullets lose 10% of base armor per bullet. Upon hit with reflected bullet a short stagger is inflicted.
• Infested: Range increased from 12m to 25m. Applies an AoE toxin proc (which will last based on duration). Tap/Hold to store a percentage of own health (25% to 75%) to explode around the warframe. Does (50% to 100%) effective health damage to enemy health based on how much percentage of own health was stored. Is affected by Radial Fall-Off starting with 50% at 12m, up to 90% at 25m. Needs atleast 190% power strength for maximum conversion of own health to enemy health.

 

4th Ability // Form Dependant Exalted Weapon:  125 Energy Cost // No Channeled or Duration

• Hybrid: No effect. Cannot be casted.
• Sentient: Crit based Sentient beam weapon, which is attached on the right arm. Hold fire key to shoot a beam. Use alt-fire to fire off the exalted weapon, causing the ability to be forcefully end, resulting in a big AoE explosion.
• Infested: The Sentient weapon has been overtaken by the infestation, which turns it into a status based melee weapon. Has a new stance which mimics the thrashing and flailing movesets of infested enemies. This weapon has Lifesteal to aid in survivability in the infested state.

KEY NOTE: Deactivated upon end of the first ability duration.

KEY NOTE 2: Can be deactivated by [TAPPING] the 4th ability key.

KEY NOTE 3: Stats of the exalted weapons can be debated. Haven't thought of them.

KEY NOTE 4: Sentient Exalted Weapon can use Hunter Munitions to make up for lack of status chance

 

Final Note:

The abilities are not designed to have specific special interactions with each other, instead they are meant to intuitively complement one another.

 

Intended Mods:

Vitality, Steel Fiber, Blind Rage, Narrow Minded, Primed Flow.

 

Intended playstyle:

The Hybrid-form aims to be a mix of both playstyles, however it should feel a bit lacklustre to incentivize frequent form-changing.

The Sentient-form aims to function around it's damage reduction and damage immunity to play a medium-ranged gunfire playstyle, with many disadvantages to being in close combat: not being able to reliably block damage with the shield and not getting the full value of it's adaptive damage reduction as melee attacks hit once and very hard, not repeatedly but less hard.

The Infested-form aims to function around it's potential to be very destructive but also self-sustaining at close range, with many disadvantages to being in ranged combat: having drastically reduced damage and limited access to self-sustainability.

 

Differences to Equinox, Revenant and Nidus:

It is different from Equinox in the sense that it's builds should provide a general functionality for both forms of the frame, with no significant drawbacks for either form, and in the sense that it has a fluctuating identity between both forms, whereas Equinox is a combination of two opposites that do not come together in one coherent build + playstyle, but drastically different ones.

It is different from Revenant in the sense that Revenant is an Eidolon frame, whereas our concept is based around the sentients you would encounter in the Veil Proxima. And while Revenant is a damage, dealing Eidolon thing that has an absolute immortality on his second ability, our conceptual sentient is just the usual sentient that gets progressively harder to kill the longer a fight goes, but does take damage, and has little to none innate restorative capabilities.

It is different from Nidus in the sense that Nidus's playstyle is not as up close, and while Nidus is practically immortal, our conceptual infested is rather easy to take down. While it has restorative capabilities like Nidus, it does not boast any damage reduction nor any undying-ness. It should feel more volatile than Nidus, but also a lot more fragile. It's power directly derives from it's destructive capabilities, not any practical immortality.

[krc473]

44 minutes ago, -LOF-.XinesMC said:

Passive:

• Hybrid: None.
• Sentient: Gain 200 extra armor (affected by armor mods such as Steel Fiber)
• Infested: Gain 50 extra health (affected by health mods such as Vitality). Gains passive health regeneration (1% max health per second)

Doesn’t a hybrid typically benefit from all the forms that contribute to it? Perhaps 25-50% of the individual buffs?

44 minutes ago, -LOF-.XinesMC said:

2nd Ability: 50 Energy Cost // Channeled Ability

What’s the energy per second? Channeled abilities use energy while active. As it is right now, it seems like it is best to just stay in the hybrid form for this ability. No duration or energy cost, so a permanent damage reduction.

44 minutes ago, -LOF-.XinesMC said:

3rd Ability: 75 Energy Cost // 12m Range [unaffected by mods]

The sentient ability here looks a little complicated - reflected bullets are unlikely to hit anything, unless they are forced to. So there seems little point in using this form at all.

44 minutes ago, -LOF-.XinesMC said:

4th Ability // Form Dependant Exalted Weapon:  125 Energy Cost // No Channeled or Duration

This needs either a duration or energy per second/attack. If you don’t want that make it function like Garuda’s claws. All exalted weapon’s have either a duration or energy cost while in use. It looks like you essentially want it to function as Garuda’s talons do. 
 

It really seems like Infested is the superior form. 
 

Edit: my form preference would be: Infested then Hybrid. Sentient does not seem worth using to me.

Edited June 22, 2020 by krc473

[-LOF-.XinesMC]

Quote

This needs either a duration or energy per second/attack. If you don’t want that make it function like Garuda’s claws. All exalted weapon’s have either a duration or energy cost while in use. It looks like you essentially want it to function as Garuda’s talons do. 

The idea is to give it a high energy cost and instead of it's own "channeled" cost or "duration" it is bound to how long you can stay in the main form for.

Quote

It really seems like Infested is the superior form. 
 

Edit: my form preference would be: Infested then Hybrid. Sentient does not seem worth using to me.

The main style for this frame is for you to use either depending on playstyle. Sentient is more tanky/cc based. Whilst Infested is more dps quick paced.

2 hours ago, krc473 said:

The sentient ability here looks a little complicated - reflected bullets are unlikely to hit anything, unless they are forced to. So there seems little point in using this form at all.

Easy CC? It's an easy ability to use.

2 hours ago, krc473 said:

Doesn’t a hybrid typically benefit from all the forms that contribute to it? Perhaps 25-50% of the individual buffs?

The main focus here is to make sure you COULD use the hybrid, but we want to make you focus on using the full kit of both forms not just use one form and get the best of both worlds. We allow you to stay in hybrid for some of the abilities but we encourage you to use the full capability of a form instead of playing the easy route

[krc473]

22 minutes ago, -LOF-.XinesMC said:

The main focus here is to make sure you COULD use the hybrid, but we want to make you focus on using the full kit of both forms not just use one form and get the best of both worlds. We allow you to stay in hybrid for some of the abilities but we encourage you to use the full capability of a form instead of playing the easy route

If you don't want to treat it as a hybrid, perhaps a better term can be used? It should at least share some of the independent passive buffs. You describe it like "two entities trapped together". 

4 hours ago, -LOF-.XinesMC said:

Once the duration runs out, the opposing form will burst free, balancing the frame back to it's Hybrid state.

This suggests one gets sealed away, and when it "bursts free" it should actually do something. Or just change it to 'neutral form" or something instead of hybrid.

24 minutes ago, -LOF-.XinesMC said:

Easy CC? It's an easy ability to use.

So, how is the hit calculation on reflected bullets done? RNG based, guaranteed etc? You don't mention this at all. If we have to worry about positioning to actually reflect bullets into enemies it gets really complicated. It may not be complicated at all, but you need to give more information on how it actually works.

27 minutes ago, -LOF-.XinesMC said:

The idea is to give it a high energy cost and instead of it's own "channeled" cost or "duration" it is bound to how long you can stay in the main form for.

Which is more like Garuda's talons than an exalted ability. Give it a proper 4th ability, and just allow us to switch to the weapons when in a set form. I am not a fan of having to not equip a weapon to use Garuda's talons, and you have left "Hold" completely free on the first ability when in one of the forms. It makes more sense (to me) that these are just weapons you get to use when in a form, hold 1 while in Sentient/Infested form to equip the weapon. I am not saying change what you want them to do at all, just don't waste an ability slot on something that could easily be done another way.

30 minutes ago, -LOF-.XinesMC said:

The main style for this frame is for you to use either depending on playstyle. Sentient is more tanky/cc based. Whilst Infested is more dps quick paced.

I guess the issue with this is how much better DPS is than CC. But hey, personal preference.

[(PSN)chris1pat8twins]

How exactly would his Origin be?

Nidus’s origin could simply be that he was the first attempt of a frame. Since frames are part infested. And he began to mutate which turned him into full infested. His prime I picture a typical golden warrior but with cracks all over his body with infested leaking out.

Revenant is probably the only exception to the concept unless DE decides to explain further who he WAS. But the story goes that he was some warrior guarding the gates that imprisoned the sentient Eidolon or whatever. His curiosity got the better of him and almost like the cat, he paid the price. He was swapped with the Eidolon inside the prison and was engulfed in sentient energy which turned him into a sentient. He wields a long katana so I would assume he was a Dax. Since Dax warriors are equipped at fighting the sentients. Either way, nothing suggested he was a frame before the transformation. 
 

So how would this concept be? Cause last I checked, sentient and infested do not mix. At least DE has never done it before. And sentients aren’t exactly biological nor robotic. They are something else. And they adapt to anything but the void. So it would make sense that they can be immune to infested. 
 

I kind of picture a frame that literally has a sentient half and an infested half. Like maybe the second attempt of a frame they tried using sentient technology and when the one half of the frame mutated into infested, the other half was sentient which prevented the infestation from spreading completely, which resulted in half and half. 
 

But right now the whole thing is still kind of fuzzy. 

[-LOF--Pogo]

vor 8 Stunden schrieb krc473:

I am not a fan of having to not equip a weapon to use Garuda's talons

With these exalted weapons, you could run any weapon you want. You'd switch to exalted whenever you want, at an energy cost. When you wish to switch back to your main weaponry, you can do that.

 

vor 8 Stunden schrieb krc473:

"two entities trapped together".

I think we specifically described it as a sentient that is in the process of being overtaken by the infestation. As such, the Hybrid state is it's "neutral" form of being overtaken. The specific forms reflect how you willingly favor one side for a set amount of time.

 

vor 12 Stunden schrieb -LOF-.XinesMC:

Once the duration runs out, the opposing form will burst free, balancing the frame back to it's Hybrid state.

And this effect is a visualization of how the side you temporarily suppressed in order to gain the other side's advantages will fight its way to the surface.

 

vor 12 Stunden schrieb krc473:

What’s the energy per second? Channeled abilities use energy while active.

There are specific abilities that do not. Example: Night Equinox's 3rd ability. I may be unaware of a slight terminological difference, however it does not matter here out of practical reasons: All active abilities automatically are turned off once the duration of your first ability runs out, and the hybrid form - while being easier to use - does not bring as many specific strengths as it's Sentient or Infested Counterpart.

 

vor 8 Stunden schrieb krc473:

I guess the issue with this is how much better DPS is than CC. But hey, personal preference.

I think this is what it really comes down to. Our main concern with this design was to allow for a simultaneous usage of both frames with a single basic build (as can be seen through our intended mods). Of course the mod spaces left would make builds more niche and adapt them more to one's own favoured playstyle, however this would not render any other form unusable, as is often the case with Equinox builds (for example her maim build).

 

vor 8 Stunden schrieb krc473:

So, how is the hit calculation on reflected bullets done? RNG based, guaranteed etc? You don't mention this at all.

This is a very specific thing to ask, but you are right, it is an important topic. Our intention was to make the shield have a relatively low block-angle, however the bullets that are then blocked are guaranteed to be reflected back at that specific enemy. This tool is specifically designed to deal with highly armored targets that deal a lot of damage (for example bombards and heavy gunners) where you would want to specifically block their damage instead of relying on your adaptive damage reduction. Apologies for not being more clear about this.

 

vor 12 Stunden schrieb krc473:

This needs either a duration or energy per second/attack.

I mentioned this already, but just for good measure: It does not need a duration, as it has a shared duration with the first ability. You cannot activate this ability unless in a specific form, and it will forcefully end once you revert to your hybrid form, which has a set duration. As such, giving it a duration is pointless. Instead, it is balanced out by a high initial energy cost for a high-value ability.

 

vor 12 Stunden schrieb krc473:

Infested then Hybrid. Sentient does not seem worth using to me.

The Infested has a very reckless and self-destructive playstyle, but if you successfully pull it off, it is supposed to feel very rewarding. It makes sense for many people to favor this form. It is supposed to feel powerful and destructive, which is a very reasonable thing to desire in a looter-shooter that is about power fantasy.

The Sentient, on the other hand, is supposed to be more about controlled and tactical gameplay. The aim was to make this form a very tanky medium range unit with good damage potential, while the Infested is supposed to be very squishy by comparison, and has to get up close, but when it gets up close, it is supposed to absolutely eradicate anything.

In this sense, the two playstyles mirror a tactical gunfire gameplay and a "close-and-personal" melee gameplay.

 

I hope I could help clear some questions up. I think I may have repeated some statements in this response, forgive me if that annoyed you. I just wanted to make sure that I get my point across. I wish you a nice day and I hope you see our frame concept in a clearer light.

[-LOF--Pogo]

vor 6 Stunden schrieb (PS4)chris1pat8twins:

I kind of picture a frame that literally has a sentient half and an infested half.

I get why you'd feel drawn to this visualization from a lore-perspective. However this would not reflect the intended gameplay at all, especially considering the intended Hybrid form.

 

vor 6 Stunden schrieb (PS4)chris1pat8twins:

So how would this concept be?

The concept is that of a singular sentient entity that comes into contact with a vast infestation that traps the sentient being.

 

vor 6 Stunden schrieb (PS4)chris1pat8twins:

they adapt to anything but the void

Yes, they do adapt, but this adaptation starts slowly and does not make them 100% immune to anything. The intention here is that the sentient has reached a point of adaptation against the infestation where it is able to stop it from progressing any further, but it cannot undo the hold that the infestation already has on it. This results in the Hybrid form, which is supposed to be a constant conflict between the Sentient side and the Infestation side fighting for the control over the body. As such, the frame has a sort of fluctuating identity - sometimes the Sentient side gets the upper hand, sometimes the Infested side does, but always only for short amounts of time. This is suppposed to be reflected by how the 1st ability works.

 

Thank you for this analysis of problems behind the lore of the frame. You are indeed right, this is definitely something not done before. We see the lore-related background of the frame as something that is hypothetically possible, as I hope I sufficiently explained above. I, too, dislike frame concepts that are impossible from a lore perspective. However I have to admit that I am not an expert on lore. While I did do all quests and pay close attention to the lore of all factions, I never went into my codex just to read every single entry that it has. So if some small hidden codex entry completely negates this frame concept, then I apologise. However I think that "hidden codex entries" can be argued to not be part of the core lore as they are never actively presented to the playerbase.

[KaffeRausch]

The basic idea is interesting.

It becomes clear again how much shape migration warframes are desired.

[krc473]

3 hours ago, -LOF--Pogo said:

With these exalted weapons, you could run any weapon you want. You'd switch to exalted whenever you want, at an energy cost. When you wish to switch back to your main weaponry, you can do that.

You need to read the whole part, not just the bit you don’t like (I don’t like that way either). The suggestion was to stick the “exalted weapons” as an addition to the first ability. When in form, hold 1 to activate/deactivate the weapon.

3 hours ago, -LOF--Pogo said:

I think we specifically described it as a sentient that is in the process of being overtaken by the infestation. As such, the Hybrid state is it's "neutral" form of being overtaken. The specific forms reflect how you willingly favor one side for a set amount of time

Then why isn’t it just a sentient frame that you activate an ability to bring out the infestation? Why does it need a hybrid? I guess this is more about the lore behind it than any gameplay thing.

3 hours ago, -LOF--Pogo said:

The Sentient, on the other hand, is supposed to be more about controlled and tactical gameplay. The aim was to make this form a very tanky medium range unit with good damage potential, while the Infested is supposed to be very squishy by comparison, and has to get up close, but when it gets up close, it is supposed to absolutely eradicate anything.

I did understand that was the point. But Infested just seems better. Squishy is fine when you have lifesteal and strong attacks. I cannot imagine many people opting to use the Sentient frame. But again, this would come down to personal preference. Mine is to not play a frame aimed more at a supporting/CC role as generally this has a pretty low impact. CC is pointless when everything is already dead.

[-LOF-.XinesMC]

3 hours ago, krc473 said:

You need to read the whole part, not just the bit you don’t like (I don’t like that way either). The suggestion was to stick the “exalted weapons” as an addition to the first ability. When in form, hold 1 to activate/deactivate the weapon.

We made it this way as we found it useless as a channel if your 1 forces you out. I guess it could be a duration but it would either have to be the same as the 1, or shorter. We thought it would be simpler to just make it the way it is.

 

3 hours ago, krc473 said:

Then why isn’t it just a sentient frame that you activate an ability to bring out the infestation? Why does it need a hybrid? I guess this is more about the lore behind it than any gameplay thing.

The "lore" would be a sentient based frame which was overtaken by infested. Both sides of the frame have to fight to keep power. Thats why you can't stay in the infested/sentient side, as the opposing side soon equalises it. Say Jekyll and Hyde, they both exist in "one" being, but they fight to keep each other at bay. Idk cool idea.

[-LOF--Pogo]

vor 3 Stunden schrieb krc473:

Then why isn’t it just a sentient frame that you activate an ability to bring out the infestation?

I think we sufficiently explained why: It has more interesting gameplay, offers more options, and it's based in the lore. If that isnt sufficient explanation, we can also ask "why is the frame infested and sentient at all, make it a mix of banana and pineapple please".

[(PSN)iCoffeebean07]

Yo love the whole concept. Pls try to find an artist to make some concept art for this frame. Again, amazing work.

[-LOF-.XinesMC]

14 hours ago, (PS4)iCoffeebean07 said:

Yo love the whole concept. Pls try to find an artist to make some concept art for this frame. Again, amazing work.

We don't particularly want to pay an artist to make a concept art for this frame as it's only a concept.