Pvp Should Be Unranked.

[Onae]

So since a lot of people have been whining about unfair ness and one hitting, why not change the way pvp works. I think if mods and levels Do NOT count in the conclaves then It would be a fairer and overall funnier fight. This means all items you are equip with are considered unranked, and all mods are disabled. (Accepted for your abilities which would still be enabled)

What do you think?

Edited October 18, 2013 by Onae

[Nyrakav]

I agree. It would at least make conclave a bit more balanced.

[BuriedShadows]

I think the PvP would still be as bad now. Right now, i can take ANY of my weapons, and my Rhino, and only use Iron Skin, and dominate in 1 v 2, that's just crap, but I know they're working on it, and I'm glad this isn't a PvP focused game.

[Ned_Wiki]

Well. If DE didn't want people to get one-shotted they could simply cut PvP damage by 3/4'ths...

That's how D2 did it and it was sick. D2 was more exaggerated in the damage but it'd probably work very nicely in Warframe. It just needs a static PvP damage cut.

(If Iron Skin would be problematic than they could program in that Iron Skin takes full damage regardless of the 3/4'ths rule or even that it takes 1.5x damage.)

Edited October 18, 2013 by Ned_Wiki

[taiiat]

reducing all of the damage people deal just means the same person will still win, it will just take longer. 

 

that is not a fix. it's not even a bandaid.

[Ned_Wiki]

reducing all of the damage people deal just means the same person will still win, it will just take longer. 

 

that is not a fix. it's not even a bandaid.

But. You're wrong.

If I don't get one-shotted by somebody that would give me time to reposition, go into cover, PLAN...STRATEGIZE...counter their plan. You're short-sighted.

Reducing damage increases the length of the round and creates more possibilities and outcomes. You're just so wrong it hurts.

[DiabolusUrsus]

But. You're wrong.

If I don't get one-shotted by somebody that would give me time to reposition, go into cover, PLAN...STRATEGIZE...counter their plan. You're short-sighted.

Reducing damage increases the length of the round and creates more possibilities and outcomes. You're just so wrong it hurts.

 

I would agree with you if not for the fact that whichever other game you took this example idea from most likely doesn't have a character with an infinite duration invulnerability to CC until you reach a certain damage margin. Would it make staying alive a little easier? Yes. But it also gives people playing Rhino no less of an advantage. While you have time to reposition and strategize and whatnot, they don't have to worry about being knocked down and can simply grab energy whenever it pops up. Then you get to deal with Rhino Skin AND Rhino Stomp. Reduced damage won't do much for balance that is horribly skewed to begin with.

 

That's the point. If PVP was already marginally balanced, then yes, your suggestion would be effective, as it would force consistent skill rather than a single instance of luck to take someone down. But that isn't the case. It's not just that it takes a single instance of luck to take someone down. It's that a select number of players have the luxury of completely ignoring the luck part and facetanking most of whatever the other team can throw at them.

[R1K1M4RU]

I partially agree with what this topic is suggesting. Unranked would mean more traffic in the conclave. Currently, every time i attempt to PvP there's never anyone in queue for a match. Which is somewhat disappointing as blasting away at A.I. is only entertaining for so long.

[jpvi1207]

I think the PvP would still be as bad now. Right now, i can take ANY of my weapons, and my Rhino, and only use Iron Skin, and dominate in 1 v 2, that's just crap, but I know they're working on it, and I'm glad this isn't a PvP focused game.

i would like to see you last more than 3 seconds to my soma..................if your not using the god mod combo

[Luminide]

Great post i feel the suggestion is great it balance everything except warframe abilities which can be balanced out for this new system of PvP.

[Cinderain]

The thing is that fine tuning on the basic Warframe stats and Weapons really wouldn't be noticed on the PvE side of things where mods are such a huge factor in stat adjustments

 

Changes of any kind or size don't need to affect PvE if they just set up a separate set of numbers for PvP.

[Rompido]

Lol

[Collossal]

As good as I think this is you are missing one serious thing. Nuker builds. I have a rhino that can stomp 2 times with just one energy pickup. So if I were to zoren copter my way there I could easily stomp you to death twice in a row.

[Xan-Diesel]

Dale Doback: "I don't believe in belts. There should be no ranking system for toughness!"

I immediately thought of Step Brothers when I saw Onae's thread title. Good times, and also applicable!

[Luminide]

YES DE PLEASE LISTEN. If this is not the plan i suggest a deeper decrease in damage taken,this would allow us to use mods we like as well as prevent noobish quick-draw matches. I know that there was a 10 to 15% decrease but im saying that this is not enough maybe 30% or a different value but no less than 30%.

[Rompido]

So since a lot of people have been whining about unfair ness and one hitting, why not change the way pvp works. I think if mods and levels Do NOT count in the conclaves then It would be a fairer and overall funnier fight. This means all items you are equip with are considered unranked, and all mods are disabled. (Accepted for your abilities which would still be enabled)

What do you think?

 

 

even if they do. players are just going to find something else to cry about being unfair. I'm sorry to say it but not all players are created equal.

[Cinderain]

Either Warframe's core stats and mechanics can stand on it's own as a PvP game or not.

 

Why would anyone want any game to try and attempt to carry more than one game mode on one table of stats?

 

Or am I just misunderstanding you and you're still referring to "a completely separate game?" But I think that still leads to the same question. Why would anyone want stats made for one game mode to be used in a completely different one?

 

If you get into creating completely different number tables for one mode, then you're beginning to make a completely separate game.

 

A completely separate game? No, not even close. A separate gameplay mode. Don't make it more than it is.

 

Don't want PvP to affect PvE? Then make a second list of stats, then DE can edit them all willy nilly however they see fit. This isn't a new or revolutionary idea, look at Guild Wars 1/2 or DCUO. These certainly aren't the only MMOs that do the same. Heck, even non-MMO games like Call of Duty or Halo separates their multi-player, co-op and single-player.

 

I should sleep.

Edited October 27, 2013 by FatalX7

[Luminide]

^+1 PLEASE LISTEN DE

[Czarok]

I really don't think blanket damage reduction is the best "quick fix" answer. So it does get old at times dying in a few seconds now, right? But the good thing is that a wide variety of weapons can do this; snipers, assault rifles, and close range weapons are all viable right now. There is counter play between each of these weapon types.

Now let's cut down damage a lot. So now NO weapon can instakill, and it takes ay least a few shots to bring someone down. Well already sniping sounds unappealing, because now I have to land multiple shots on a target that is zoren coptering around. Now what about close range weapons? Why bother if being closer doesn't net you the advantage of killing people quickly and before they can react? More counterplay and meaningful weapon choices are lost. Now let's think about what would be really good since under these circumstances. Well, if I can't kill my opponent instantly, I can still stagger lock him! And wow! Throwing weapons/twin gremlins fit exactly into that midrange sweet spot! So now the go to strategy is to stunlock your opponent. And personally that sounds much more lame than getting one shotted.

I think the best quick fix would be to implement weapon filters at each conclave bracket, so that those players that want sniper or shotgun duels can find fairness in that sense. Further OPTIONAL restriction on what players can bring to a conclave would really help to improve the sense of fairness and balance in my opinion.

edit: another though; even barring annoying stun lock weapons, just think what would happen to match duration when there is no incentive to get close to your opponent other than trying to end a round. There would be multiple stand offs at mid range, and eventually one player would gain the damage advantage and try to end it, but it's very easy in this game to get away from people, and much harder to chase. Match time would drastically increase. This may be cool for a while, but it doesn't suit the fast pace of war frame in general, or the PvP I've personally come to enjoy.

Edited October 29, 2013 by Czarok

[Luminide]

I really don't think blanket damage reduction is the best "quick fix" answer. So it does get old at times dying in a few seconds now, right? But the good thing is that a wide variety of weapons can do this; snipers, assault rifles, and close range weapons are all viable right now. There is counter play between each of these weapon types.

Now let's cut down damage a lot. So now NO weapon can instakill, and it takes ay least a few shots to bring someone down. Well already sniping sounds unappealing, because now I have to land multiple shots on a target that is zoren coptering around. Now what about close range weapons? Why bother if being closer doesn't net you the advantage of killing people quickly and before they can react? More counterplay and meaningful weapon choices are lost. Now let's think about what would be really good since under these circumstances. Well, if I can't kill my opponent instantly, I can still stagger lock him! And wow! Throwing weapons/twin gremlins fit exactly into that midrange sweet spot! So now the go to strategy is to stunlock your opponent. And personally that sounds much more lame than getting one shotted.

I think the best quick fix would be to implement weapon filters at each conclave bracket, so that those players that want sniper or shotgun duels can find fairness in that sense. Further OPTIONAL restriction on what players can bring to a conclave would really help to improve the sense of fairness and balance in my opinion.

edit: another though; even barring annoying stun lock weapons, just think what would happen to match duration when there is no incentive to get close to your opponent other than trying to end a round. There would be multiple stand offs at mid range, and eventually one player would gain the damage advantage and try to end it, but it's very easy in this game to get away from people, and much harder to chase. Match time would drastically increase. This may be cool for a while, but it doesn't suit the fast pace of war frame in general, or the PvP I've personally come to enjoy.

 

This insanely illogical. Being close to someone has many advantages like better aim,for shotguns land more pellets etc. The damage doesnt change according to distance which makes your statements on this obsolete, Further more, i don't know which horrible sniper you are using but I use a Paris Prime and I get 10,000 damage for one shot. Reducing damage wont affect snipers because they should still be able to easily one hit kill enemies. However, I do agree for weapon barring,particularly staggering weapons and definitely dual zorens. 

 

For my own idea, I was thinking they should do the weapon barring of stagger weps and zorens, and a new pvp stats sytem. Its not a new game,just simply a new game-mode.Games have done it before like Guild wars and DCUO(idea sparked by FatalX7"). Maybe the damage and mod systems could be kept the same in PVP but instead add a new PvP exclusive stat,lets call it "warframe armor". This makes things alot easy. No weapon should be armour ignore but instead have a certain percent of "warframe armor" that they ignore for example, "OP" weapons like the soma and strun wraith should have less of this "warframe armour" ignoring percentage.While weaker weapons should have more of this ignoring percent. Weapons that are snipers should have a very high "warframe armour" ignore percent so that they one hit kill to make up for the charge time and projectile speed(paris,dread,Lanka). Maybe there should be a separate lvling up system just for PvP that is fixed to each warframe, i.e As this PvP warframe rank levels up the default warframe armour should increase as well(this should not remove mod capacity or interfere with the warframe,just a new stat for PvP only with a separate meter).

[Czarok]

This insanely illogical. Being close to someone has many advantages like better aim,for shotguns land more pellets etc. The damage doesnt change according to distance which makes your statements on this obsolete, Further more, i don't know which horrible sniper you are using but I use a Paris Prime and I get 10,000 damage for one shot. Reducing damage wont affect snipers because they should still be able to easily one hit kill enemies. However, I do agree for weapon barring,particularly staggering weapons and definitely dual zorens. 

 

For my own idea, I was thinking they should do the weapon barring of stagger weps and zorens, and a new pvp stats sytem. Its not a new game,just simply a new game-mode.Games have done it before like Guild wars and DCUO(idea sparked by FatalX7"). Maybe the damage and mod systems could be kept the same in PVP but instead add a new PvP exclusive stat,lets call it "warframe armor". This makes things alot easy. No weapon should be armour ignore but instead have a certain percent of "warframe armor" that they ignore for example, "OP" weapons like the soma and strun wraith should have less of this "warframe armour" ignoring percentage.While weaker weapons should have more of this ignoring percent. Weapons that are snipers should have a very high "warframe armour" ignore percent so that they one hit kill to make up for the charge time and projectile speed(paris,dread,Lanka). Maybe there should be a separate lvling up system just for PvP that is fixed to each warframe, i.e As this PvP warframe rank levels up the default warframe armour should increase as well(this should not remove mod capacity or interfere with the warframe,just a new stat for PvP only with a separate meter).

With a damage cut being close would still have advantages depending on the weapon you're using, but my point would be a fraction of what they are now. Better aim at close range is really a concept that only applies to shotgun/shotgun like weapons in this game. It does also let you land more pellets. But this is still true only to a degree; given the fast nature of movement in this game being too close presents more aiming problems than being a bit further away imo. And the incentive to move in close with a shotgun is lost when it doesn't amplify the power of the weapon that much. It gives people playing at more a a range a larger time to land shots, and if your weapon staggers, that's gg. By getting close you are also generating those advantages for the other player, and since the shotgun wielder is the one actively running into that range, the opponent gets to act on those advantages first. You are putting yourself at a huge disadvantage using a shotgun with a damage need because you're giving your opponent the same advantage by rushing but now lack the payoff of killing them quickly.

As for snipers I think you're a bit off on the damage they do. I have a maxed Lanka with the only no damaging mod on it being speed trigger, and this seems to be enough to 1shot decked out tanky targets. It's a small margin. Swapping one mod for a shred(better charge speed) doesn't kill in one shot. With even a small damage nerf a full damage Lanka probably wouldn't be able to take out a tanky target. With a crit build yeah, but using ANY sniper with non hits an projectile speed is generally bad and having to essentially 50/50 on a crit sounds even worse.

A more complex solution than limiting weapons would be nice, but to do it well would take a lot of foresight and balancing on DE's part, and unfortunately I don't see it happening. A resilience-esque type mechanic is essentially just a damage need with more progression on the players side(which is good), but I think it would lead towards a lot of the same problems as a straight up damage reduction.