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Ash, Bladestorm Gives Some of us Motion Sickness, a proposed solution and a few touchups


Tesseract7777

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I don't think Ash needs huge changes. I also don't want the old Bladestorm back. But I do think the current marking system is clunky, and could use updating. Some of us, myself included, even get motion sickness from spin-marking enemies. I also feel that some of his abilities, while they should stay mostly the same, could use some touching up or revisiting, as they come mostly untouched from a classic era of the game. Here are the minor issues I see with Ash, and some briefly proposed solutions:

Shuriken:

Basically a single target ability in a mostly horde based game. Augment is nice for niche uses, but even augment doesn't change the fact it's still only mostly useful in niche cases.

Proposed solution: Keep the tap to cast version, but also include a hold to cast version kind of like Tempest Barrage, but maybe showing us a cone in our energy color. When we release the cone, or run out of energy, reach max modded range, etc, he releases a "storm of shurikens". This would sync up with his passive, and have interesting synergies with abilities like Expedited Suffering. 

Possible synergy: Enemies hit by Shuriken who survive are marked for free for next BS, as long as they are within it's targetable range when cast. 

Smokescreen:

To be honest, it just doesn't feel like it does a lot, the augment is awesome for certain niche use cases though. 

Proposed solution: Ninja's vanish in a cloud of smoke right? But usually that smoke lingers for a little bit, enemies blinded and coughing? How about we have Smokecreen leave behind a cloud of smoke that blinds enemies who walk through it. Fits thematically beautifully, helps Ash be more of a team player, and helps Smokescreen feel a little more robust.

Suggested synergy: (Hunter Vision)

See through walls and target enemies through walls while charging Bladestorm 

Teleport: 

Without the augment, it just doesn't feel like it does a lot, especially when you miss the finisher.

Proposed solution: 

Make Ash use his wrist daggers to force two bleed procs on the enemy. Really low level enemies will die, higher level enemies will at least be softened up if you miss your finisher. Those using the augment usually mod to one shot, so this animation/procs could be skipped for those with the augment. 

Also, quality of life suggestion: Sometimes I want to go Teleport kill certain enemies, but I don't want to join Bladestorm at that moment. Please, give us a tap/hold to cast option for that so we have more control as a player. 

Synergy possibility: Enemy that survives Teleport is marked for BS. 

And finally, 

Bladestorm: 

Some of us get motion sickness marking enemies, and the marking system is hard to control. Most people are just spin-marking enemies or waving their mouse reticle back and forth really fast to mark multiple. In reality, people are not carefully picking out 1, 2, or 3 marks, nor are they are they really targeting specific enemies at all. They are painting the room with their mouse. 

Proposed Solution: 

Make Bladestorm an ability that you charge to cast sort of like Tentacle Swarm, but it will show you a generously sized cone/fan increasing in size in front in your energy color as you hold the ability key. The ability will activate when you stop holding the key/reach max modded range/run out of energy, etc. Enemies within the the area of affect will all be attacked by Ash's clones (or Ash if he joins the Bladestorm), up to three times. Otherwise mechanics of Bladestorm would remain functionally the same.

Suggested Synergy:

As I suggested earlier, why not have Ash be able to see and target through walls, but only if Smokescreen is active and he is currently charging Bladestorm. It would still only be a cone/fan, and require some setup, and Ash's clones are not exactly the fastest DPS these days, so I think it would really fit his ninja them and make him even ashier without being OP. 

Many frames have a way to get around line of sight, but only with some setup, Ash should be no different. 

Another way to do it if the balance team thought that was too strong: (Hunter Vision)

Once Smokescreen is active, hold 2 again while it is already cast to engage "Hunter Vision". You will be able to see enemies and mark them through walls with Bladestorm, or even Teleport to them, but Hunter Vision being active costs you energy drain per second, so you would need to make use of it in quick, strategic bursts, as Ash is not an energy heavy frame. 

Augments and passive: 

These are okay, no changes needed.

This is feedback for DE, but I am also interested in what you think Tenno. What is your opinion of my Ash revisit? Do you like all of my ideas, any of them? Hate them? Sound off! But please don't be too mean, lol. 

 

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I agree Ash does need some changes, not because he is bad, he es far from bad. I think his theme of a single target assassin is what's giving him trouble in a game with hordes of enemies like Warframe, but it's not impossible to make it work. I don't want Ash to be a nuke, and I usually don't like "cones".

The main problem I have with your touchups is that I still wouldn't use Teleport and Shuriken, because Bladestorm is cheaper.

hace 2 horas, Tesseract7777 dijo:

Shuriken:

Basically a single target ability in a mostly horde based game. Augment is nice for niche uses, but even augment doesn't change the fact it's still only mostly useful in niche cases.

Proposed solution: Keep the tap to cast version, but also include a hold to cast version kind of like Tempest Barrage, but maybe showing us a cone in our energy color. When we release the cone, or run out of energy, reach max modded range, etc, he releases a "storm of shurikens". This would sync up with his passive, and have interesting synergies with abilities like Expedited Suffering. 

Possible synergy: Enemies hit by Shuriken who survive are marked for free for next BS, as long as they are within it's targetable range when cast. 

I think what Shuriken needs is utility, not damage. Think of every ability n°1 that is useful, it's usually because they give you something. Nidus's charges energy and stacks, Harrow's give you shields, CC, etc. Damage on a first ability always falls off.

Also, Shuriken and Teleport could be combined. Recast Shuriken to teleport to the enemy hit and automatically perform a finisher, hold to make Shurikens come back dealing Bleed procs to anything in between, if the target dies this is not needed, flight travel when recalling shurikens is instant. You have 3s to either teleport or call your shurikens, not affected by mods.
Finishers are buggy, so either use the Parazon (much less buggy) or one of Bladestorm animations. When teleporting Ash should gain something, probably armor but it could be casting speed or something. This gives you great mobility, frees up an ability slot, and keeps his teleport's main use as offensive, wich is what DE seemingly wants (otherwise we could teleport freely by now without need of a target).

In comparisson with his current kit, this Shuriken + Teleport would result in:
*Slower Teleport because of the extra steps
*Quicker aim, because Shuriken is a guided projectile
*Ability to teleport after a few seconds, giving you the oportunity potentially to avoid dangerous situations
*Slower Shuriken that deals more damage depending on your positioning
*A free slot for an extra ability, hopefully NOT an exalted

Sorry for invading your rework with my own but I wasn't sure if criticising without giving other options was better.

The rest of your kit is fine, except the cone, personally. It's too similar to old bladestorm, almost nuke level. The good part is that current Bladestorm is still in there if I don't hold 4.

Still needs something to make his kit worthwhile. If Ash had some kind of stacks that empower Bladestorm (faster animation speed, cast speed, or something) that are charged by using his other abilities, it would be a different story. Stacks would consume when used with Bladestorm so you keep using his kit. Bladestorm marks could do it, not sure.

 

hace 3 horas, Tesseract7777 dijo:

Also, quality of life suggestion: Sometimes I want to go Teleport kill certain enemies, but I don't want to join Bladestorm at that moment. Please, give us a tap/hold to cast option for that so we have more control as a player. 

I don't understand why this wasn't a simple "recast Bladestorm to join" without the need of aiming an enemy.
 

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