Need help with how some things calculate

[(XBOX)UltraMagnus5000]

I am confused how damage reduction stacks. For example, adaptation max out at 90% with a 10 particle null star (50%) 

I am also confused how looting abilities stack. I heard that desecrate stack multiplicative with ore gaze. What will be the final additional loot chance with a 25% ore gaze and desecrate 

[TheArcSet]

Ok.

1. Damage reduction from different sources stacks multiplicatively, so the % of damage taken is multiplied.
   1. eg -(90%*50%) == 1-(0.1*0.5) == -95%. The only time it stacks additively is from armour or mods, eg, Aviator, Toxin_Resist, Adaptation, ect.
   2. A note on Adaptation: it builds up multiple stacks, but only reduces the dominate damage from a single enemy, so if an enemy deals (60 Puncture/20 Impact/20 Slash/ 50 Heat), only puncture will be reduced by the stacks, for that enemy. Particularly relevant against enemies with added elemental buffs.
   3. Bare in mind, there is a minimum damage per shot value, that cannot be reduced further.
2. For looting: There's alive triggers, death triggers and corpse/chunk triggers. So Ivara/Atlas, Hydroid/Khora, Nekros/Dog. The first two can stack, but for the others can't.
3. (Bonus)
   1. Death triggers work if the pilfering ability touched them at any point, regardless of what killed them, however, if they can't be grabbed then range won't help and might hurt.
   2. Frozen (cold proc on death/Frost's abilities) counts as 2 chunks.
   3. Weapons with >50% natural base slash can dismember bodies into multiple chunks.
   4. (Pilfering)Strangle_Dome can dismember bodies.
   5. Heat procs reduce chunks to a max of 1.
   6. Desecrate happens sequentially, not in parallel.
   7. Bodies last 15s, unless hit by Molecular_Prime, Miasma, or Avalanche, cause 5s.
   8. I think the dog can currently only make orbs and ammo. Fairly certain, though it can loot some crates for those too.
   9. Some enemies have empty drops in their loot tables, so even a successfully drop can drop nothing.

 

TLDR:

*DRs are applied one after another, except with flat mods and to a minimum cap.

Adaptation isn't flat DR: conditional for 1 damage type per enemy.

*The looting abilities only stack in that the don't prevent each other from working,

death and corpse looting ability don't stack. (Yes, Atlas should be death, but isn't.)

 

Beyond that, it's basic independent probability, which my other post walked you through.

*Max Looting: Ivara & Atlas & (Hydroid XOR Khora) & (Nekros XOR Dog).

[(XBOX)UltraMagnus5000]

1 hour ago, TheArcSet said:

Ok.

1. Damage reduction from different sources stacks multiplicatively, so the % of damage taken is multiplied.
   1. eg -(90%*50%) == 1-(0.1*0.5) == -95%. The only time it stacks additively is from mods, eg, Aviator, Toxin_Resist, Adaptation, ect.
   2. A note on Adaptation: it builds up multiple stacks, but only reduces the dominate damage from a single enemy, so if an enemy deals 60 Puncture/20 Impact/20 Slash/ 50 Heat, only puncture will be reduced by the stacks, for that enemy.
2. For looting: There's alive triggers, death triggers and corpse/chunk triggers. So Ivara/Atlas, Hydroid/Khora, Nekros/Dog. The first two can stack, but for the others can't.
3. (Bonus)
   1. Death triggers work if the pilfering ability touched them at any point, regardless of what killed them, however, if they can't be grabbed then range won't help and might hurt.
   2. Frozen (not cold) counts as 2 chunks.
   3. Weapons with >50% natural base slash can dismember bodies into multiple chunks.
   4. Heat procs reduce chunks to a max of 1.
   5. Nova/ect can makes bodies disappear quickly, reducing corpse/chunk looting.
   6. Desecrate happens sequentially, not in parallel.
   7. I think the dog can currently only make orbs and ammo. Fairly certain, though it can loot some crates for those too.

Everything is very helpful besides the fact you did not answer my question how to calculate additional loot chance when stacking desecrate and ore gaze or any other looting ability 

[hyzmarca]

17 hours ago, (XB1)UltraMagnus5000 said:

I am confused how damage reduction stacks. For example, adaptation max out at 90% with a 10 particle null star (50%) 

I am also confused how looting abilities stack. I heard that desecrate stack multiplicative with ore gaze. What will be the final additional loot chance with a 25% ore gaze and desecrate 

Each instance of DR is applied separately.   Lets say you have 90% Null Star, 90% Desolate Hands, 80% Warding Halo,  75% blessing,  1200 Armor (80%), and 90% Adaptation stacks for all damage types.

With that massive DR stack,  damage to health is reduced to 10% by null star, that 10% is further reduced  by 90% to 1% by Desolate Hands, then to 0.2% by Warding Halo,  then to 0.05% by Blessing,  then to 0.005% by Adaptation,  then to 0.001% by armor.   You'd be taking 1 one millionth of the damage enemies dish out.  Stacking different types of DR is very powerful, and a team with multiple frames that can share DR abilities is potentially very survivable. 

 

 

Calculating additional loot chance with multiple loot powers is difficult since each loot chance is applied separately,  they don't effect each other,  but they are all dependent on the enemy's drop table. 

The chance of getting an extra piece of loot is the chance that the power will successfully proc multiplied by the drop chance of the item you want.   Nekros's desecrate has a 54% chance to succeed, and Khora's Pilfering Strangledome has a 65% chance of success, so if you're looking for something with a 10% drop rate and are using both that's 10%, (10*.54)%, and (10*.65)%.  WIth the way corpse parts are affected seperately,  if you cut one in half nekros gets an extra desecrate attempt,  making it 10%, (10*.54)%, (10*.54%),.

If you want to know the chance that you'll get a least one copy of the (100-10*.54) loot you want,  you'll want to find the chance that you'll get 0 copies and subtract that from 100%. 

So,  the chance I'll get 0 copies is  (1-.10)(1-.10*.54)(1-.10*.54)(1-.10*.65)=  .9*.946*.946*.935= 0.753 = 75.3% chance of not getting the drop you want from that kill, or a 100-75.3= 24.7% chance of getting it.  

 

With Ore gaze,  Desecrate  an intact body, and a 10% drop chance it would be .9*.925* .946 = 78.75% chance of getting nothing.  or a 21.25% chance of getting at least one copy of the item you want. 

 

Of course,  the drop rate for what you want probably won't be 10%. Enemy loot tables are all unique and the good stuff tends to have low drop rates

[TheArcSet]

15 hours ago, (XB1)UltraMagnus5000 said:

Everything is very helpful besides the fact you did not answer my question how to calculate additional loot chance when stacking desecrate and ore gaze or any other looting ability 

The chance to 'loot' an extra roll from the loot table is the % that the ability lists.

The chance of two independent events both happening is their probability multiplied together.

The chance of at least one of two events happening is the chance of both not happening, not happening:  1 - ProbNot(x) .

 

 

If Ore_Gaze is only modded for 25%, then there's a 25% chance that the loot table will be rolled an extra time when a petrified enemies dies.

Desecrate has 54% chance to roll the loot table an extra time, per chunk it works on.

 

So:

1-(0.75*0.46)=0.655==65.5% is the chance you'll get at least one extra loot chance with 1 chunk and both abilities.

54%*25%=13.5% is the chance you'll get 2 extra drops.

 

1-(0.75*0.46*0.46)=0.841==~84% is the chance for at least one extra loot, with 2 chunks;

~3% for 3 extra drops.

Etc for more chunks and for if you increase Ore_Gazes ability strength, 400% to get 100% chance.

 

As I said above Ore_Gaze and Desecrate are in different categories, so they don't directly interact with each other, but they don't prevent each other working either.

Apart from Ivara/Atlas, only one looting ability from a category can apply.

 

[TheArcSet]

Also, bare in mind that there is a minimum amount damage, so in most cases, the different between DR99% and DR99.999999% will be nothing at all.

If it's reduced to the minimum, it won't go any lower.

[TheArcSet]

TLDR: The abilities only stack in that the don't prevent each other from working,

which is what the death and corpse looting ability do.

Beyond that, it's basic independent probability, which my post walked you through.

 

Max Looting: Ivara & Atlas & (Hydroid XOR Khora) & (Nekros XOR Dog).