Repeating item drop pools, reduced quality w/ loot rarity bonus.

[(PSN)Xzelian]

A friend and I have been attempting to farm for a burner Protea with no success.

We have stumbled into an issue in which drops are repeating as well as tile sets.

He is constantly getting loot rarity bonuses through sorties as well log ins and has allotted 13 days worth without every purchasing one.

The issue is that when in a team with a member carrying one of these ,several friends have noticed that with quantity up quality is greatly decreased.

(E.G. 30 dead consecutive radiant relic attempts per player totaling 120 with 4 gold multi-spawn drops following the moment the bonus expired.)

Now this could be a bug or an intentional balance issue, but frankly I don't think it's appropriate to sell a nerf.

Given that the times I seem to receive them myself coincide with Barro's visits, I feel inclined to lean to intentional but wish to be fair.

It needs to be looked into, and please, please please. Return Protea's parts to our loot pool, we have other things we wish to do instead of burning our affinity bonus time in repeated dead drops.

[(XBOX)R3d P01nt]

On 2020-10-10 at 2:21 AM, (PS4)Xzelian said:

The issue is that when in a team with a member carrying one of these ,several friends have noticed that with quantity up quality is greatly decreased.

(E.G. 30 dead consecutive radiant relic attempts per player totaling 120 with 4 gold multi-spawn drops following the moment the bonus expired.)

Resource chance boosters increase the chance for enemies to drop resources.  It has nothing to do with the drops that relics give.

On 2020-10-10 at 2:21 AM, (PS4)Xzelian said:

It needs to be looked into, and please, please please. Return Protea's parts to our loot pool, we have other things we wish to do instead of burning our affinity bonus time in repeated dead drops.

Protea is in the drop pool.  The drop rates are just low.

[(PSN)Xzelian]

Right! It is not SUPPOSED to have anything to do with it, BUT it has been affected, hence the bug report.

I listed that as a single example. What I did not describe was the time I spent 3 and a half consecutive days attempting to get ash chasis to drop. 

I was running with a friend who had said booster, and at one point I had one by log in for 24 hours. I had just gotten a smoking body ephemora and needed it as an ingredient.

Three and a half days we had that booster active with a needed part in waiting. 

Drops - 0

The moment of expiration, 2 within 40 minutes single survival.

This is the second of about 20 examples I can give of absurdly wrecked or bugged rng cycles. However please note:

a ) I did not post this for fanboy defense feedback. I posted this to report a bug.

b) Whether you have not experience it does not weigh in on its validity. I see bugs all the time I cannot say I've experienced. It does not make those posters liars or wrong. Sometimes it's a simple mistake, but when someone isn't getting their codex updated (one I have experienced) I won't tell them otherwise.

c) You are not even on the same platform, so your opinion in this means nothing unless you are a dev. If you are a dev then shame on you.

d) any further attempt to discredit me strictly on opinion or what is described in the intended coding will be taken as abuse and the appropriate actions will be taken to prevent it from you or anyone else.

Understand that I am experiencing an issue in reduced quality when these boosters are running. Many friends and I do not purchase and strongly advise against it based on this experience.  I have  4191 hours in this game and am not making a rash post based on one experience. I finally reached a point as a terminally ill individual of getting angry enough to say something because as far as I'm concerned, any waste of mt time is a physical attack. 

I am giving D.E the opportunity to perhaps acknowledge and correct for this, otherwise it is definitely a slow down mechanic that's working "as intended." By refuting the posts validity you are supporting the latter. So if you wish for the company to continue to lose revenue by the huge chunk of us who boycott these boosters, then continue blind rhetoric, just please refrain from doing so on my posts. 

[(PSN)Xzelian]

11 hours ago, (XB1)R3d P01nt said:

Resource chance boosters increase the chance for enemies to drop resources.  It has nothing to do with the drops that relics give.

Protea is in the drop pool.  The drop rates are just low.

Please see my follow up post

[(XBOX)CordingMoon7789]

En 10/10/2020 a las 1:21, (PS4)Xzelian dijo:

He is constantly getting loot rarity bonuses through sorties as well log ins and has allotted 13 days worth without every purchasing one.

Something similar happened to me but it was for just like 3 or 4 days, in which i had resource drop chance boosters, i don't remember which boosters i got, and on sorties during that time i got a bunch of ayatan treasures on a row, nothing else happened.

 

En 10/10/2020 a las 1:21, (PS4)Xzelian dijo:

The issue is that when in a team with a member carrying one of these ,several friends have noticed that with quantity up quality is greatly decreased.

 

The only thing related to this i've heard is that people feel that if they are the not the host they feel they aren't getting much boost to the resources

About Protea, maybe it's just very very bad luck, but have you been getting the same exact reward?

Relics are not affected my resource drop chance booster nor protea's parts from my knowledge since they are not resources but they are rewards.

What's wierd is that as reward rarity boosters don't exist i don't know what could be affecting your rewards? credit booster if it wasn't working, you'd be getting way less credits, if it was a resource drop chance booster, you'd be getting a low amount of resources, if it was resource booster, it wouldn't double resources or maybe not even receiving anything and lastly if it was a mod drop chance booster it would reduce the amount of mods received. Of course all of this is mere speculation as to what they would do if they were acidentally going negative. So i don't know what could have messed with the rewards as from knowledge there is nothing that affects the drop chances of rare rewards.

 

You could also ask on players helping players if you haven't to see if maybe someone else had this problem.

[(XBOX)R3d P01nt]

7 hours ago, (PS4)Xzelian said:

Three and a half days we had that booster active with a needed part in waiting. 

Drops - 0

The moment of expiration, 2 within 40 minutes single survival.

Anecdotes != evidence.  Were you getting increased drops?  Drop chance boosters don't increase the chance to get the thing you are specifically trying for except that it allows for you to get more chances at a drop.  The game doesn't know that you are trying specifically for an Ash Systems to drop, so there's no way for it to know that it should block you from getting that part.

7 hours ago, (PS4)Xzelian said:

a ) I did not post this for fanboy defense feedback. I posted this to report a bug.

Yeah, I get that.  What I'm saying is that it's very, very likely that it's not a bug at all.

7 hours ago, (PS4)Xzelian said:

b) Whether you have not experience it does not weigh in on its validity.

Nor did I say that it did.

7 hours ago, (PS4)Xzelian said:

c) You are not even on the same platform, so your opinion in this means nothing unless you are a dev. If you are a dev then shame on you.

Are you going to say the same to the other XB1 person that seems to be agreeing with you?  The thing is that the console versions are virtually the same.  There's no difference between the RNG on PS4 and XB1.  And, no need to attack the devs.

7 hours ago, (PS4)Xzelian said:

d) any further attempt to discredit me strictly on opinion or what is described in the intended coding will be taken as abuse and the appropriate actions will be taken to prevent it from you or anyone else.

Threats are not a good look mate.  That this is likely not a bug is not a personal attack on you or anyone else.

7 hours ago, (PS4)Xzelian said:

I am giving D.E the opportunity to perhaps acknowledge and correct for this, otherwise it is definitely a slow down mechanic that's working "as intended." By refuting the posts validity you are supporting the latter.

This is a false dichotomy.  There are other options, like just bad RNG.

3 hours ago, (XB1)BRUHck Obama said:

Something similar happened to me but it was for just like 3 or 4 days, in which i had resource drop chance boosters, i don't remember which boosters i got, and on sorties during that time i got a bunch of ayatan treasures on a row, nothing else happened.

That's not at all surprising given that the most common reward is the Ayatan sculpture.  Sortie rewards do follow the drop chance.  I have hundreds of days of data showing that (as do others on these forums).

[(PSN)Xzelian]

I am going to respond to everything I can here without conversational posts as the format is visually confusing.

To R3d:

a) It was not an anecdote, it was an example. Others include an 80% in map statue spawn reduction rate, approximately 90% ayatan cyan blue over amber rate with a 3X gem spawn increase overall.  The point is the same, while drop numbers increase of materials, mostly by enemies as intended drop quality from all other sources suffer.  There are ways the system can see that I need an ash system drop as I needed it as an ingredient for an inventory item.  I have frequently seen the same mechanic in action when out of forma blueprints. A few friends and I have actually used this to force items on numerous accounts. Forma will tend not to drop when a player, (especially the host) is out of blueprints.  Greater rare radiant drops occur at the same time as forma to force the player to choose. Before you attempt to suggest  rngeesus , this is not a single time instance. We are talking a test slices repeated of hours at a time in a group where players specifically use relics which all have forma, and none drop, until someone pops a vaulted radiant, then forma blueprint will ping with the radiant item.  On a side note regarding the protea situation, after approximately 40 dead tier three runs, I later grouped with someone else not running the booster. We received the part in about 15 which is above average but "acceptable by rng."

The slowdown exists as so many players are aware and don't mention. D.E. legitimately needs this in place, not only to make profits on a free to play game, but also to prevent exploiters from overrunning the system.  I do not think that an item one has paid plat for should cause it however. That would be very inappropriate.

B)  Your opinion on this is still irrelevant. I didn't post it for you, and rather than scientifically explain why you felt it might be some thing else, or even inquire for more data, you dismissively corrected me .  Unfortunately unless you are providing hard statistical information as to why what I am saying is wrong, then again that input is completely invalid.

Yes this is an attack on my perspective whether you realized it at the time or not. Worse it is a communal attack as it stands to hinder progress and open investigation as to the cause of the issue.

If you followed the format that BHruck did, you would find you had a completely different response waiting.  As it stands you have both completely misunderstood or misread my original post, and that's the real problem here.

To again clarify, while quantity is indeed improved, overall quality from any and all sources seems to be negatively affected.

C: I believe you have now misread two posts .  So if you actually read his post, you wold have seen he does not think it's likely the issue is anything other than a run of bad rng.  Being a thoughtful person however, he asked for information to be sure. I will be answering him accordingly when I am done with this incredibly lengthy and what should be unnecessary response chain.  Yes I also think platform matters as memory handling on a linux based system would work differently in this instance. One unfair thing I will admit to is rulng out machine specific hardware. My system has been upgraded with a hybrid solid state drive which writes commonly used information to flash for easier access. While this should not cause the issue, if for some reason code is being reused it could potentially contribute to repeating items, however does not explain quality drops. I have a better theory I will explain below.

This was not an "attack on the devs" but if a dev did respond in the blatent dismissive way without reading the original post, then yes I think that would be rather shameful.  In truth I added that as I saw the number of posts you personally have made on this forum, and thought it an unlikely yet plausible possibility.  I really can't imagine anyone who has worked on this project being so dismissive without taking a moment to consider its viability.

D) Whether you agree or not dismissing a players bug report without really reading it, and offering a definition of what the booster does as though they were new to the game can come off as insulting. I looked at a few of your other posts and I genuinely feel that in most you are trying to be helpful, however you have also been inundated with people who misconstrue general game information. I think it's causing you to fall in a pattern of assumption. With this in mind I apologize if I took offense when it wasn't really intended, however as mentioned before any hindrance to progress hurts the community overall.

final note- Yes by refuting the issue you are in-inadvertently suggesting it is intentional.   I actually believe it's a bug and have a theory as to why, but more on that in a moment. Understand it is only a false dichotomy if i believed and had faith in RNgeesus, but the truth is true rng in a mechanism does no exist.  Algorithms and patterns form in all machine states, and it is never a viable scientific argument.  Worse any electronic device runs the risk of running into a loop. It's the same mechanic which causes "/unstuck" to not work under certain conditions. So if you are completely dismissing the possibility of a bug then the logic is sound that there is really only one other option, as the issue is unquestionably happening to me.  If you are saying I'm imagining it, then we're back to hindering progress, but understand that there is no possible way you will convince me that the issue does not exist. 4100 hours remember? 

 

BRUhck: Thank you for your insight, and yes I have had the same experiences regarding whether a player is host or not, and also feel "it's a thing." but in this instance I have had 0 issue with quantity in any way. The problem seems to be a universal drop in quality, and the way I see it excessively bad rng  can be caused by a bug.  I suppose I could post in the players helping players area for outside data, but after seeing this for a long time, I can safely say it's a reoccurring instance and not bad runs. If I were to do that I would have to deal with more people trying to dismiss it immediately which is silly as most have 0 data 1/10th the overall game experience are are just trying to blindly be supportive of D.E. to earn brownies.

The repeating sortie thing doesn't really pop a red flag for me unless it exceeds 8 consecutive rewards of the same tier more than once with a single inter-rum  reward.  I won't go into all the scientific reasons why, as this has gotten to be long enough, but if it does, then don't go into the rain and buy a lotto.

What I think is actually happening is loot is getting increased as intended, but rewards quality is also being carried over and increased, however because it is not intended the percentile is rotating to exceed 100% The code then translates this removing the 100 leaving maybe 5%. 

As I believe the Protea blueprint is the rarest in that rotation (and it should be as once you've caught your fill they're pretty worthless) it stands to reason this would be viable, Further I will mention we began seeing the same base mod drop from the Jackal on each run as that was the only convenient repeatable low tier mission we could run which would allow us to comfortably scout for an active panel. 

There is a definite a global quality drop in standard game play, with a list of things I've yet to site as examples, from mods to special crates and even gems while mining.  Ironically I saw an increase in both quality and quantity in two locations while running both the mod drop chance as well as loot quality.  Those were Jupiter Amalgam rooms and while farming railjack components. it isn' t a big enough data slice to be definitive, but worth the devs also looking into. 

 

 

 

  

 

[(XBOX)R3d P01nt]

1 hour ago, (PS4)Xzelian said:

understand that there is no possible way you will convince me that the issue does not exist. 4100 hours remember?

OK mate.  You've raised what you think is a bug in the appropriate place.  It will be up to DE to read and check it out.  They do read these bug reports.  If they find there to be no bug, I hope you can accept that, even though you seem to claim that you will not, which is unfortunate.

Good luck in the future and good luck getting the drops you're looking for.

[(PSN)Xzelian]

3 hours ago, (XB1)R3d P01nt said:

OK mate.  You've raised what you think is a bug in the appropriate place.  It will be up to DE to read and check it out.  They do read these bug reports.  If they find there to be no bug, I hope you can accept that, even though you seem to claim that you will not, which is unfortunate.

Good luck in the future and good luck getting the drops you're looking for.

Reasonably that's all I can do. If I perceive it as a bug and state nothing about it It's inappropriate for me to bothered by it. As it stands it really bothers me so posting is the fair action. What I really want is direct dialogue to help resolve a mountain of issues and implement QOL improvements, but don't really want to talk in a forum environment.But to be clear I did not say I cannot be convinced. I stated you will not convince me. This is given the continuation of rng as a strict viable argument.  But thank you for the well wishes and good luck to you as well.