No Dilemma In Gradivus Dilemma Event

[seth]

I can see on what DE were aiming while designing this event, but crucial step known as planning was neglected.
Following comparison is result of such neglection:

Corpus
- Easy to kill, mission can be completed faster and new players can kill something.
- Rewards suck. (http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/The_Gradivus_Dilemma)
- Tenno pods being captured by Alad has larger moral impact on player.

Grineer
- Hard to kill, mission can't be completed fast, new players have hard time dealing with armored enemies.
- Better rewards. (http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/The_Gradivus_Dilemma)
- Grineer spreading has less moral impact on player.

 

Conclusion:
- Core point about this event was CHOICE that was presented in form of Grineer vs. Corpus, this CHOICE was overshadowed by rewards who favored Grineer in start, and this was fatal for Corpus.

- Moral dilemma between Grineer spreading and Corpus getting tenno played small role compared to rewards, this dilemma was also not presented well because it's easier to buy idea of saving tenno compared to idea of stopping Grineer spreading.

- Way of distributing T3 rewards even more splits community and shifts odds in favor of winning side.

 

There is no fun in such badly executed event.

Edited October 28, 2013 by seth

[zeroythe]

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/123775-im-ed/

[Hominghead]

By the wording of announcement regarding the rewards, you are able to go 50/50 Grineer/Corpus and then jump to a side right before the event ends to be considered the winning side.

 

The actualy erosion of rewards etc. is worded only for battle pay. So for me, not a real dilemma from that point.

I can still jump back and forth on the Battle Pays, i just have to select one per Mission.

Edited October 25, 2013 by Hominghead

[zeroythe]

How I'm looking at it: I'm supporting the grineer purely on the lore of rescuing some of the tenno. Will I fight for corpus to get a good reward? You bet your sweet skana I will. I think many other people are pretty much doing just that. Playing nodes for the best resource while still supporting their faction of choice.

[Buldozers]

How I'm looking at it: I'm supporting the grineer purely on the lore of rescuing some of the tenno...

 

Do you really believe that? This is not about those cryopod Tenno, they are dead anyway no matter who wins - it will use them for their benefit.

 

If i have to chose the lesser evil I chose Corpus.

[arch111]

Same here.

[Brimir]

The simple fact is that the rewards should have been based on which faction you supported, not which won.

 

ie.

 

Your faction wins - you get the hand cannon, weapon slot and catalyst.

 

Your faction loses - you get the blueprint for the hand cannon only.

 

That way those poor Corpus supporters will at least get the reward they want.

[KoshLovesYou]

By the wording of announcement regarding the rewards, you are able to go 50/50 Grineer/Corpus and then jump to a side right before the event ends to be considered the winning side.

 

The actualy erosion of rewards etc. is worded only for battle pay. So for me, not a real dilemma from that point.

I can still jump back and forth on the Battle Pays, i just have to select one per Mission.

 

I'm like 80 percent sure this just isn't true, considering how Clan scores are apparently working, with points from each side actually removing from the total from either. Pretty sure it works that way for individual scores as well: They cancel out, period.

 

IE 50 points in both equals 0 points total.

Edited October 25, 2013 by KoshLovesYou

[TylerBurden]

I'm like 80 percent sure this just isn't true, considering how Clan scores are apparently working, with points from each side actually removing from the total from either. Pretty sure it works that way for individual scores as well: They cancel out, period.

 

IE 50 points in both equals 0 points total.

This is not true, look at the warframe prime time.. Rebecca explained it at about minute 4. I already wondered and opened a topic about it:

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/123652-this-event-doesnt-make-sense-for-me/#entry1460557

scroll down for the link. 

 

[seth]

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/123775-im-ed/

Agreed.

 

By the wording of announcement regarding the rewards, you are able to go 50/50 Grineer/Corpus and then jump to a side right before the event ends to be considered the winning side.

I don't want to grind 16h to get both on equal number and than switch to winner, this isn't the point of event, but it is possibility for more engaged players.

Also grinding missions just to get on T3 same weapon with slot and catalyst isn't worth the time. You can work for 1h and earn enough money to buy 75p which is more than enough to compensate loss in a sense of that slot and catalyst.

 

How I'm looking at it: I'm supporting the grineer purely on the lore of rescuing some of the tenno. Will I fight for corpus to get a good reward? You bet your sweet skana I will. I think many other people are pretty much doing just that. Playing nodes for the best resource while still supporting their faction of choice.

Lore wise I don't think DE invested enough time to explain true consequences of Grineer spreading, even sound of it doesn't have same weight as Tenno being captured by Corpus, also let's not forget Anyo boss, he does all kinds of stuff with frozen Tenno.

I also don't want to play Mars on Grineer levels, they are by far worst levels to navigate

[CaptainohCaptain]

Because there is no dillema at all. Well, there is, but it's a clan's dillema, not the solo players one.

[seth]

COMMUNITY was DIVIDED from day one because of rewards, and after day 2 it was clear that Grineer will prevail so they got even more supporters.

 

This is pure balance issue and DE fault! Just because they didn't plan this event properly - and they always do this $h1t.

The same thing was for example with:

- aura taking points.

- clan weapons not working up until last major update (ignis and torid).

- clan weapons price (supra, dual ichor, synapse, djinn).

- that corpus event that had 3 stages but no one knew.

- nova bp not dropping from raptor.

 

Now with this event they have outdone them selves.

What baffles me is the fact that DE still didn't learn to PLAN!!!!! things out!

This whole $h1tuation (like situation, but in a brown way) could be avoided (and it still can be) but DE didn't act, and they will not act on it.

 

I hate to see community divided.

[Wolfstorm18]

Because there is no dillema at all. Well, there is, but it's a clan's dillema, not the solo players one.

 

 

This.

 

My clan sided with the Grineer, and threatened to eliminate (expel) anyone who sided with Corpus. This was not even discussed by players in the clan, it was simply throw out by the leaders.

 

I sided with the Corpus when I joined the event. I was not looking for rewards, I just found the Corpus weapon more beautiful, and since I was always fighting Grineer at Phobos (and most of the time alone) it was logical that I should side with the Corpus.

 

After doing 6 missions for Corpus I read the clan announcement and simply left it.

 

Now Im building my own Dojo, alone. Most players in my contact list, are from clans which also support Grineer. And the noobs want big clans to join. Since mine will be a ghost clan, I dont known if will be possible to research for new weapons anymore.

 

Now if you ask me if I dislike this, I will say that I not. I just like the way it is. Its expected to create division. If it wasnt then its not a dilemma.

[HailCreation]

How does the grineer enslaving more of the solar system have less impact on the Tenno? Half the missions we do are in the name of stopping the grineer from obtaining more power. 

 

It's obvious that the clan rewards are what really messed this event up. The clans top clans have an abundance of resources already and have little need to be persuaded by the battle pay. They just care about getting the trophies for their Dojo. That's why Spear for the 5 Orokin Cells eventually lost. All the players that wanted the cells got 5 and stopped, but all the clans who sided grineer and wanted more just powered on grineer. 

Edited October 27, 2013 by HailCreation

[Brimir]

How does the grineer enslaving more of the solar system have less impact on the Tenno? Half the missions we do are in the name of stopping the grineer from obtaining more power. 

 

Because we can not make any more Tenno - the number of CryoPods stashed around the Milky Way are finite.

 

Territories can always be reclaimed. If not by us, by the Corpus at a later date.

[HailCreation]

I'm like 80 percent sure this just isn't true, considering how Clan scores are apparently working, with points from each side actually removing from the total from either. Pretty sure it works that way for individual scores as well: They cancel out, period.

 

IE 50 points in both equals 0 points total.

Your ranking points will total 0, but as far as the end event rewards go? They count. 

 

 

Because we can not make any more Tenno - the number of CryoPods stashed around the Milky Way are finite.

 

Territories can always be reclaimed. If not by us, by the Corpus at a later date.

If we really want to go by that, then if Lotus was anything serious we'd launch a recovery mission for the Tenno immediately if the corpus won. 

Edited October 27, 2013 by HailCreation

[Azote]

The simple fact is that the rewards should have been based on which faction you supported, not which won.

 

ie.

 

Your faction wins - you get the hand cannon, weapon slot and catalyst.

 

Your faction loses - you get the blueprint for the hand cannon only.

 

That way those poor Corpus supporters will at least get the reward they want.

I'd like that detron... +1...

[seth]

My clan sided with the Grineer, and threatened to eliminate (expel) anyone who sided with Corpus. This was not even discussed by players in the clan, it was simply throw out by the leaders.

 

I sided with the Corpus when I joined the event. I was not looking for rewards, I just found the Corpus weapon more beautiful, and since I was always fighting Grineer at Phobos (and most of the time alone) it was logical that I should side with the Corpus.

 

After doing 6 missions for Corpus I read the clan announcement and simply left it.

 

Now Im building my own Dojo, alone. Most players in my contact list, are from clans which also support Grineer. And the noobs want big clans to join. Since mine will be a ghost clan, I dont known if will be possible to research for new weapons anymore.

 

Now if you ask me if I dislike this, I will say that I not. I just like the way it is. Its expected to create division. If it wasnt then its not a dilemma.

Your clan leaders are d-bags.

I don't think DE planed or even wanted this bad kind of division in community, the one that resulted in unsatisfied customers (players).

Now you are alone, making new dojo and researching all items, and probably disappointed in your ex clan leaders, is this kind of division that you like? Just because of poorly executed event?

 

Because we can not make any more Tenno - the number of CryoPods stashed around the Milky Way are finite.

 

Territories can always be reclaimed. If not by us, by the Corpus at a later date.

Where does it say we can not make any more Tenno?

What is with Anyo who already smugled bunch of Tenno?

How does supporting Grineer spreading help Tenno in any way when past events were all about ending their dominance in solar system? (Sling stone event, Informant event)

[Wolfstorm18]

Your clan leaders are d-bags.

I don't think DE planed or even wanted this bad kind of division in community, the one that resulted in unsatisfied customers (players).

Now you are alone, making new dojo and researching all items, and probably disappointed in your ex clan leaders, is this kind of division that you like? Just because of poorly executed event?

 

Where does it say we can not make any more Tenno?

What is with Anyo who already smugled bunch of Tenno?

How does supporting Grineer spreading help Tenno in any way when past events were all about ending their dominance in solar system? (Sling stone event, Informant event)

 

 

Yes, you are right... only now I checked, that I need one Forma for each Dojo room, so it will not be possible for me to make my own labs, since Forma bp is a extremely rare drop for me (one by each 10 void T3 runs).

 

The solution for me is to find a new clan that supports Corpus, and then contribute with other resources in their researches.

[xGryphus]

Well, clans are supposed to resemble military structure which means that high command decides and everyone else supposed to follow orders - no individualism in big clans.

Don't make mistake and take this event for an actual competition - this is rather a big spectacle. Rewards are uneven by purpose - they are helping to direct the whole thing. On the other hand DE are extremely generous about them.

So - why so serious? Just enjoy the show...
 

[PaperLotus]

Well, clans are supposed to resemble military structure which means that high command decides and everyone else supposed to follow orders - no individualism in big clans.

Don't make mistake and take this event for an actual competition - this is rather a big spectacle. Rewards are uneven by purpose - they are helping to direct the whole thing. On the other hand DE are extremely generous about them.

So - why so serious? Just enjoy the show...

 

 

 The problem with this is that in order to enjoy the show, it needs to be enjoyable. The purpose of an event is for the community to have fun, whilst working towards a goal. Whether or not people want to believe it, stacking things towards the Grineer early on got them a lot more supporters, and there are a pretty big number of people who are sticking with their choice, and not changing side depending on the Battle Pay. This event has the "goal" thing down, but I've yet to meet anyone who can enjoy something that is completely and obviously to someone else favor, and not their own. I honestly think that the "difficult" decisions for Battle Pay should have been made later on. The fair ones should have been early on, so as to lock the people who didn't plan on switching back and forth into a healthy balance of Corpus and Grineer. As it stands, the Grineer have 11 victories, and are about to get 4 more. The Corpus have 4, and are not getting any. Many of the rewards may be uneven on purpose, but if  you've not noticed, there have been plenty of maps that the Corpus should have had an advantage on due to the items, but the Grineer still prevail, because of their ludicrous amount of supporters. This is hardly an event any longer, it's just a gaurantee for the Grineer supporters to get the equivalent of 30 or so platinum.

 

[seth]

Well, clans are supposed to resemble military structure which means that high command decides and everyone else supposed to follow orders - no individualism in big clans.

Don't make mistake and take this event for an actual competition - this is rather a big spectacle. Rewards are uneven by purpose - they are helping to direct the whole thing. On the other hand DE are extremely generous about them.

So - why so serious? Just enjoy the show...

 

 

Clans have basic roll play structure, true internal political structure is defined by leader/leaders and members.

Sometimes leaders are tyrannic d-bags that constrain freedom of players by threatening to expel them from clan, just because player wants to support Corpus.

This event was designed with competition in it's core, this could be unintentional, but there is no way for event like this to exist without it.

Problem emerged when it was obvious form day one who will win it. Rewards, vague and easy buyable story of saving Tenno were the reason of such obvious day one winner of whole event "spectacle".

The reason this is serious is because it divides community in bad way, it creates tensions between us - the players, where there shouldn't be any.