Her_Lovely_Tentacles Posted March 17, 2021 Share Posted March 17, 2021 This is a topic that is very near and dear to my heart, and I feel like I have to make my plea heard in this matter. If I didn't feel so strongly about this I probably wouldn't bother, and yet... here we are – so I write this open letter. The reworked Corpus ship tileset is both visually and from a sound-design perspective probably my favourite tileset. I love looking for the Solaris prisoners and saving them for no other reason than that fuzzy warm feeling (probably also a way to deal with my own trauma), which is an incredibly engaging system to me. -Such a beautiful tileset And yet... I dread going there. I dread going to my favourite tileset. There are so many Solaris prisoners, and so few Treasurers spawn that I can never have enough coins for all of them, and have to leave the poor Solaris behind. The emotional toll of that is too harsh for me to regularly engage with. I know, I know, they're not real. The whole game is not real, but even so... The emotion it stirs inside is real. I save them because I care, and it is actually quite nice to engage with the game in a non-murderous way in these moments. -Happens too often Treasurer always spawns extremely late in a mission, when people already want to extract, and rarely do they wait for him. Most people also don't know that the treasurer will not spawn if anyone is within 35 meters of extraction. I always try to encourage people to wait, but it doesn't always work. -Explaining and pleading with teammates every mission gets pretty tiring Most of the times, I am also the only one to save the Solaris (save for a friend who I've "conscripted"), so I have to save 2-3 Solaris per mission (sometimes more, I have had up to five in a single mission), with the option to maybe get one back if my teammates are nice enough to wait. On the other hand, if I go solo, I can just wait until the Treasurer spawns and definitely get the coin, but that means I definitely have to be the one to save all the Solaris. In some missions (Crossfire, Corpus ship Sortie with non-Juno enemies) the treasurer won't spawn at all, even though the prisoners spawn - an oversight? No matter how I slice it, running a mission on that tileset is - on average - a coin loss, and thus, saving Solaris is unsustainable. -The acolyte-spawn-model may help I get it. Granum Crowns are supposed to be an extremely scarce resource. You want this resource to matter. But there should still be some way to get more of them for dedicated players. The Acolyte model would work well for this – have the Treasurer spawn multiple times in endless missions, and very dedicated players could get enough Granum Crowns, without detracting from the intended scarcity. Having to go out of your way to farm these coins in long missions mean they still matter. I'd farm the heck out of that – it would be an evergreen farm target for me. It would be something consistent for me to do and enjoy the game at MR29+. What I am trying to say is: Please, let us save our Solaris siblings. For we all... lift. together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leqesai Posted March 17, 2021 Share Posted March 17, 2021 Gotta say, I am openly against this suggestion. I'm not sure how many non endless missions you run but personally I'm sitting on a few dozen of every type of granum coin, and I free prisoners every time I encounter them. Running basic missions is almost always a guaranteed spawn unless you get very unlucky, in my experience. 26 minutes ago, Her_Lovely_Tentacles said: The emotional toll of that is too harsh for me to regularly engage with. I know, I know, they're not real. The whole game is not real, but even so... The emotion it stirs inside is real. I save them because I care, and it is actually quite nice to engage with the game in a non-murderous way in these moments. This part is a little weird. I mean... I get where you are coming from but come on.... You need to get over it. You're letting yourself become emotionally attached to a McGuffin. The prisoners are there only as a reward-check. Freeing them does not impact anything, nor does it have any actual plot relevance. You aren't like... penalized for not freeing them... If you're going to try and compel people to adopt your idea/suggestion then I encourage you to do so without letting weirdness associated with your emotional attachment get mixed into your argument. It makes your argument come across as very strange and people are less likely to take you seriously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Her_Lovely_Tentacles Posted March 17, 2021 Author Share Posted March 17, 2021 9 minutes ago, Leqesai said: Gotta say, I am openly against this suggestion. I'm not sure how many non endless missions you run but personally I'm sitting on a few dozen of every type of granum coin, and I free prisoners every time I encounter them. Running basic missions is almost always a guaranteed spawn unless you get very unlucky, in my experience. Then you aren't finding as many Solaris as I'm finding. As I said, usually 2-3, which is obviously more than the 1 coin you get back. I guess I am just too good at finding them. Currently, it doesn't matter if the mission is endless or non-endless, only up to 1 Treasuerer, but up to 5 Solaris Prisoners, which just doesn't add up. Quote This part is a little weird. I mean... I get where you are coming from but come on.... You need to get over it. You're letting yourself become emotionally attached to a McGuffin. The prisoners are there only as a reward-check. Freeing them does not impact anything, nor does it have any actual plot relevance. You aren't like... penalized for not freeing them... If you're going to try and compel people to adopt your idea/suggestion then I encourage you to do so without letting weirdness associated with your emotional attachment get mixed into your argument. It makes your argument come across as very strange and people are less likely to take you seriously. That seems a little nitpicky. DE made them people on purpose, to evoke a reaction. If they wanted you to be unattached to them, they wouldn't be Solaris Prisoners, but some kind of resource cache. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leqesai Posted March 17, 2021 Share Posted March 17, 2021 Just now, Her_Lovely_Tentacles said: That seems a little nitpicky. DE made them people on purpose, to evoke a reaction. If they wanted you to be unattached to them, they wouldn't be Solaris Prisoners, but some kind of resource cache. I do not believe DE has any opinion on user attachment to non-named, inconsequential npcs. The Solaris prisoners are what they are to help unify the systems within the game. Freeing them gives faction standing outside of Orb Vallis/Fortuna. This is related to a slowly developing cohesion between isolated Warframe systems. There is no emotional component to this. It is nice that you are immersed and feel attached, but I'd wager nearly all players have zero attachment to these random prisoners because they are McGuffins. Most players likely see them as McGuffins because they really offer nothing of substance to the plot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Her_Lovely_Tentacles Posted March 17, 2021 Author Share Posted March 17, 2021 5 minutes ago, Leqesai said: I do not believe DE has any opinion on user attachment to non-named, inconsequential npcs. The Solaris prisoners are what they are to help unify the systems within the game. Freeing them gives faction standing outside of Orb Vallis/Fortuna. This is related to a slowly developing cohesion between isolated Warframe systems. There is no emotional component to this. It is nice that you are immersed and feel attached, but I'd wager nearly all players have zero attachment to these random prisoners because they are McGuffins. Most players likely see them as McGuffins because they really offer nothing of substance to the plot. I strongly believe this to be false. If it was just about Solaris standing, there could just be caches containing debt-bonds or something. And good stories play on emotion. Maybe not everyone feels it, ok, but that doesn't mean it isn't there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leqesai Posted March 17, 2021 Share Posted March 17, 2021 1 minute ago, Her_Lovely_Tentacles said: I strongly believe this to be false. If it was just about Solaris standing, there could just be caches containing debt-bonds or something. And good stories play on emotion. Maybe not everyone feels it, ok, but that doesn't mean it isn't there. This is why they are McGuffins... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Her_Lovely_Tentacles Posted March 17, 2021 Author Share Posted March 17, 2021 5 minutes ago, Leqesai said: This is why they are McGuffins... I know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OmegaVoid Posted March 18, 2021 Share Posted March 18, 2021 5 hours ago, Leqesai said: This is why they are McGuffins... It's only a McGuffin if it's vital to the plot. The "plot" of a mission is the main objective, which does not involve the Solaris prisoners at all. Ergo, they are not McGuffins. Jus' sayin'. 5 hours ago, Leqesai said: I do not believe DE has any opinion on user attachment to non-named, inconsequential npcs. If that were so, they could mostly be replaced with a simple GUI text menu. The devs have in fact gone to considerable lengths to allow players to exercise "willing suspension of disbelief" and treat the Warframe universe and its characters with the same weight given to e.g. the characters in a fictional book or film. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leqesai Posted March 18, 2021 Share Posted March 18, 2021 3 hours ago, OmegaVoid said: It's only a McGuffin if it's vital to the plot. The "plot" of a mission is the main objective, which does not involve the Solaris prisoners at all. Ergo, they are not McGuffins. Jus' sayin'. Considering the plot of Fortuna is centered around Solaris rebelling against Anyo it makes perfect sense that they are captured. They are rebels, after all. As far as I can tell it fits perfectly into the definition of McGuffin... You may be right but even so, McGuffin is about the closest I can think to what I am trying to convey regarding the inconsequential relationship the individuals have within the larger scope of their place within the story of Fortuna. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OmegaVoid Posted March 18, 2021 Share Posted March 18, 2021 On 2021-03-18 at 6:32 AM, Leqesai said: Considering the plot of Fortuna is centered around Solaris rebelling against Anyo it makes perfect sense that they are captured. Not rebelling, really -- the Solaris all work for Nef Anyo the Corpus. I don't think even Eudico believes they can realistically escape or overthrow the Taxmen. Solaris United and Vox Solaris appear to be an attempt to protect the Solaris workforce from the worst excesses of Corpus exploitation. Eudico publicly says the Solaris who vanished were "good people with clear debts" -- which I'd take to mean that they hadn't done (or at least not been caught for) anything the Corpus would call criminal, and they didn't owe enough for their bodies to be entirely forfeit. So despite all the rules he sets in the Orb Vallis being stacked in his favour, Nef Anyo still ignores them completely when he can't be bothered to observe the niceties. Say rather that those Solaris were "kidnapped" than "captured". As part of the narrative, their disappearance provides ample motivation for Eudico's actions in the Deadlock Protocol. For the Tenno, the danger of an end to Corpus infighting gives a reason to help Eudico -- even for those who don't care about a few Solaris peons. To the individual Tenno, the kidnapped Solaris are either an example of the vulnerable Colonists they heroically defend... or simply an irrelevant nobody whose fate is of no interest. Not all of the Tenno are nice people. To the audience (us) they are another example of Corpus oppression. Part of the backdrop of this universe. They're not important people, but they are people. Some players have said that they'd like to see more of the Colonists we're supposed to be helping. Well, there they are. But we can't help all of them. Life is harsh in the Origin System. (Personally I'm just slightly miffed I can't shotgun them to bits for giggles, but whatever.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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