More config slots (for frames).

[quxier]

As with Helminth addition we can have many different combinations of frame & subsumed abilities.

We can have 6 slots but that's not enough. 1 slot might be for original abilities and other 5 for subsumed abilities. We have ~50 frames. Even if we count 1/4 of "usable" abilities then it's ~12 abilities worth to keep.

Can we have more slots? I guess 10 or 20 more would be sufficient.

 

[TehGrief]

It's unrealistic to assume that you are going to subsume 12+ abilities onto a single frame.

There are not enough archetypical ability types in the game to justify what you're asking for. Within the helminth system alone, even in the cases of introducing new abilities, there will always be the objective best ability for the specific archetype you are going for. 

If you truly desire (and have the time to actively use) 12+ different ability configurations, I would recommend investing in a duplicate warframe to experiment with. 

This is too much of a fringe request to even be considered. 

[quxier]

10 minutes ago, TehGrief said:

It's unrealistic to assume that you are going to subsume 12+ abilities onto a single frame.

There are not enough archetypical ability types in the game to justify what you're asking for. Within the helminth system alone, even in the cases of introducing new abilities, there will always be the objective best ability for the specific archetype you are going for. 

If you truly desire (and have the time to actively use) 12+ different ability configurations, I would recommend investing in a duplicate warframe to experiment with. 

This is too much of a fringe request to even be considered. 

It's not unrealistic. I quickly checked the list and I picked 17. And I only picked 1 from Helminth's abilities. I would probably use 10 actively but it doesn't mean other won't be used.

So you are suggesting instead of 10 plat for single slot to grind for potentially days another frame or buy it for ~300 plat? I don't use half of frames, resources, relics etc but they still take place.

[OPHATYC]

I would like to have different polarities for different configuration slots. Yes, you will have to polarize more, but you can create more interesting builds. Can be done by installing an additional special reactor in the slot. Other slots will be similar to the main one.

[TehGrief]

3 hours ago, quxier said:

It's not unrealistic.

It quite literally is. 

If you were to consider, on average, the amount of mod configuration slots that are used by active community members I guarantee that the option to have six is excessive as it is. 

You are an outlier in this.

 

Quote

So you are suggesting instead of 10 plat for single slot to grind for potentially days another frame or buy it for ~300 plat? I don't use half of frames, resources, relics etc but they still take place.

I am not suggesting that you do anything at all. I do not concern myself with what you do in game. 

Currently, DE has provided the option to have a generous six mod configuration slots on a single frame. If you truly think that you need more than that, you have the option to obtain a second frame to configure how you see fit.

A duplicate frame would likely be a better option for you, since you're likely going to need to swap out mods and polarities and it would give you more freedom. 

 

What I am suggesting is that DE not waste time and resources (something that you can relate with) adding this feature.

 

[quxier]

2 hours ago, TehGrief said:

What I am suggesting is that DE not waste time and resources (something that you can relate with) adding this feature.

Man... they waste much more resources on things that people won't use.

Ok, but have you some data that I'm outlier? Of course for Helminth users?

[TehGrief]

2 hours ago, quxier said:

They waste much more resources on things that people won't use.

This is another example of something that will not be used. 

 

Quote

Ok, but have you some data that I'm outlier? Of course for Helminth users?

Absolutely, the data is publicly available and has been provided through Devstreams (specifically Home Devstream #6). 

You can see in the above post that the information has neatly been put into a graph that shows the "most applied" Helminth abilities. These abilities are the most subsumed for two reasons:

1. They are new and need to be tested.
2. They are objectively the best abilities.

As you work your way down the list you can see that the data suggests next to no users are applying the later abilities; people that choose these abilities are outliers by definition. You can see another version of the graph here. 

As I have stated in my previous post, several of the abilities within the helminth system have overlapping archetypes (crowd control, movement, buff, etc.) and there are ones that are unfortunately objectively better than others in those cases. Hierarchies like this form organically when abilities are not useful, some simply are not worth subsuming.

 

Going back to your original argument, I can appreciate that you want to be creative. However, you are asking for more when you already have so much. Six mod configuration slots is plenty. You have five slots for favourites and one slot for testing the plethora of subsumable abilities. If you honestly feel the need to have 12+ mod configuration loadouts, you have the option in game to get a duplicate frame and mod to your hearts content.

We need to be more conservative with the content we request, and more realistic with our expectations. 

[quxier]

8 hours ago, TehGrief said:

We need to be more conservative with the content we request, and more realistic with our expectations. 

It's not too much compared to other things. And your suggestion about another frame is even less "conservative". You know, whole frame, 3-6 slots of mods, color combinations, attachments, config slots etc. Instead of... some config slots.

8 hours ago, TehGrief said:

You can see in the above post that the information has neatly been put into a graph that shows the "most applied" Helminth abilities. These abilities are the most subsumed for two reasons:

1. They are new and need to be tested.
2. They are objectively the best abilities.

As you work your way down the list you can see that the data suggests next to no users are applying the later abilities; people that choose these abilities are outliers by definition. You can see another version of the graph here. 

Ah! You mean that data. Well, there are some problems with it:

1. old data
2. it's information about abilities that are infused but there is no information about how many of those abilities are kept (meaning not replaced by another one)
3. as you stated, some abilities (especially Helminth's one) need to be tested so they are infused more often

Let's forget about 1).

Given 2) & 3) this data is not so useful. As you can see there are a lot of Helminth's abilities. Those abilities skew the data. They are not reliable so we should get rid of them. We have Rhino that make sense (if you have to kill bullet sponges then you need power). Other abilities have more equal usage compared to whole graph. There is no huge difference. We have probably 10 abilities that have at least 1/2 usage of Berseker (with Berseker included). We have probably another 10 that are 1/4 of Berseker (cannot clearly tell from the graph). We have around 20 abilities that are infused... but it still doesn't tell you that they are kept.

ps. as non-statistician we clearly see what we want.

[TehGrief]

8 hours ago, quxier said:

You mean that data. Well, there are some problems with it:

1. old data
2. it's information about abilities that are infused but there is no information about how many of those abilities are kept (meaning not replaced by another one)
3. as you stated, some abilities (especially Helminth's one) need to be tested so they are infused more often

Let's forget about 1).

Given 2) & 3) this data is not so useful. As you can see there are a lot of Helminth's abilities. Those abilities skew the data. They are not reliable so we should get rid of them. We have Rhino that make sense (if you have to kill bullet sponges then you need power). Other abilities have more equal usage compared to whole graph. There is no huge difference. We have probably 10 abilities that have at least 1/2 usage of Berseker (with Berseker included). We have probably another 10 that are 1/4 of Berseker (cannot clearly tell from the graph). We have around 20 abilities that are infused... but it still doesn't tell you that they are kept.

 

1. Calling this old data? That's a laugh. Statistics can be used to infer data trends long after their time of publication. This statistical data was released one month after the release of the helminth system, that's adequate time for a trend to form.

If anything, were new data to be provided, I predict the data would be more skewed towards fewer abilities - meaning now that the accursed meta has settled, the data would favour fewer abilities being chosen. 

As I have already provided appropriate evidence supporting my argument, the burden of proof shifts to you to prove me wrong. I have seen no compelling evidence to suggest that you are not, in fact, an outlier in this. 

 

2. And yet, if other abilities were to be chosen, the data would suggest that - and it doesn't. The graph doesn't need to tell us what is kept, that's irrelevant, it shows us how many times an ability has been subsumed numerically. If people were first subsuming Roar then deciding to do more testing with Banish, the numbers would be equal... but alas, they are not. 

 

3. Some have to be tested, this is true. However, that statement only refers to the helminth specific abilities. All of the subsumable warframe abilities have existed in game already and can be tested on those frames - that is knowledge that people already have access to (in-game testing on the native frame, wiki data, etc.) and conclusions can be drawn. Abilities like Limbo's Banish and Loki's Decoy are not going to be chosen and tested with because they offer nothing that doesn't already exist in an objectively better format. 

[quxier]

2 hours ago, TehGrief said:

1. Calling this old data? That's a laugh. Statistics can be used to infer data trends long after their time of publication. This statistical data was released one month after the release of the helminth system, that's adequate time for a trend to form.

1 month? I'm not sure if you are trolling or you are just not informed.

You know how long it took to get Helminth segment? First you need rank 3 Entrati. First 2 ranks are just grind. 3rd requires 5x Common Avichaea Tag. People posted about not being able to get those (aka bugs). I bought it after few days. Buying requires RNG.

Ok, installed Helminth segment. You could do it in the next day after getting Blueprint.

Now you need to subsume frames. Assuming you farmed and build frames before update you can subsume 1 frame per day. Not sure if it was available at the start but you can rush for 50 plat.

You want to infuse abilities. It's not expensive however you are feeding your Helminth every day. You are making Helminth hate some resources. You cannot infuse a lot of abilities because it costs too much. And I don't know how long, but for some time resources' requirements were bigger - it was even harder to infuse.

Those are "system" limitations. What about people? Some haven't played Deimos as soon as they updated the game. Some people have some in real life "jobs" (so they cannot play the game). Some people haven't farmed frames for some reasons.

 

And you are telling me that 1 month is "enough"? Don't make me laugh.

3 hours ago, TehGrief said:

As I have already provided appropriate evidence supporting my argument, the burden of proof shifts to you to prove me wrong. I have seen no compelling evidence to suggest that you are not, in fact, an outlier in this. 

You haven't proven anything.
 

3 hours ago, TehGrief said:

2. And yet, if other abilities were to be chosen, the data would suggest that - and it doesn't. The graph doesn't need to tell us what is kept, that's irrelevant, it shows us how many times an ability has been subsumed numerically. If people were first subsuming Roar then deciding to do more testing with Banish, the numbers would be equal... but alas, they are not. 

First it's relevant because we want to know how many abilities people want to use not how many resources/frames they have.

Secondly, taking example with Roar, it can be that people infuse Roar a lot BUT they replace it with different ability. So huge "element"(not sure about proper English term) in the bar graph doesn't necessary mean Roar is used a lot.

3 hours ago, TehGrief said:

Abilities like Limbo's Banish and Loki's Decoy are not going to be chosen and tested with because they offer nothing that doesn't already exist in an objectively better format. 

That's not true. I heard about someone testing Decoy with Limbo.

There is lot of unknown and/or people just want to test for themselves.

[TehGrief]

1 hour ago, quxier said:

I heard about someone testing Decoy with Limbo.

That someone is another example of an outlier - by definition.