(XBOX)TehChubbyDugan Posted July 24, 2021 Share Posted July 24, 2021 The polarity system itself is pretty dated and has some severe issues. You put in a lot of resources, time, etc and this investment results in a loss of modularity in exchange for strength and utility. The fact that power is on one side of the scales and loss of modularity is on the other sounds balanced to some, but to me when you add in the time and resource investments the scales tip the wrong way. Of my 2,500ish hours a huge chunk of that has been spent leveling. Now part of that is because the XP system itself is kind of bad. The bulk of power doesn't come from leveling, it comes from modding, so you could make the argument that the closest analogue to XP in other games is actually Endo. Leveling, especially once you get Forma involved starts to feel more like a time-gate to being able to actually play the game because getting to 30 to have full access to your powers takes forever outside of focused XP farming. People sit in areas like Hydron or SO/ESO to get the leveling part over as fast as possible so they can go back to the other content they actually want to play and the time investment in just farming XP in the same couple of areas is absolutely massive. The "Hydron problem" is a different topic though. When you have such a massive investment between expending relics or platinum for Forma, the cost and time spent building and waiting for Forma, and then the time spent re-leveling, it starts to feel disrespectful when the devs do more and more to increase Forma spending. Enter Sevagoth. By the time I have him at the power level I want him, he'll have 15 Forma across both forms and exalted weapon. 15 Forma and he'll be basically about as effective as a dozen other frames I have with half that amount applied. Not only is this a bad precedent for DE and the community to be okay with, but there is no extra return for this massive amount of investment. He's not twice the frame that any other forma heave frame I have is. He might not even end up top tier, I haven't fully tested him yet. Of course "You don't have to use him." "No one is making you do that." I get it. But to release a frame that requires twice the investment of top tier frames to even just be on par with them isn't a good look. It does however highlight the need for a system revamp. Forma Sharing is probably not the best name for this concept, but "Forma Points" doesn't sound great either even though that's what I'm suggesting. The number of Forma applied should just allot you a number of slots that you can polarize how you want, including the ability to change a polarity with the first forma applied unlocking the ability to swap existing polarities for something else like it does with moving the slots themselves around. Example: You have a frame with two Naramon polarities at base. You cannot change these. After applying forma to the frame once you may now swap all 3 (2 base, 1 from forma) polarities around including making them all blank, with 3 "points" permanently added so that you know how many slots you can repolarize at any time. The points can be reapplied differently to each loadout. You would still have to stick a bunch of Forma onto gear, it would still be a large time and resource investment, but you would gain modularity back and things like Sevagoth wouldn't have to be an issue. You could just have your 5 or 6 Forma applied and use those points differently for both forms. You wouldn't have to lock in a build on 40 rank weapons just to get the mastery out of them. It would lower Forma costs for things like Sevagoth or for mix/maxers that have more than one frame for different polarizations, but unless DE wants to admit they keep increasing Forma costs on purpose for profit, I don't see why a small decrease like that should be a big deal. This would also fix the growing issue with weapons where they change core mechanics like status effects, shift metas and then cause a massive cascade of Forma costs when your build no longer works like it used to across dozens of weapons. I have hundreds of Forma applied and use tons of different weapons. A drastic shift in the meta would either leave most of my arsenal weak, or incur gigantic Forma and time costs. Swappable polarities that are loadout independent would solve that issue and the majority of initial investment costs would still be the same. It's future-proofing and fixes outliers like Sevagoth. DE loves using the term outlier in defense of nerfs. Use it to throw us a bone here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mortico Posted July 24, 2021 Share Posted July 24, 2021 vor 11 Stunden schrieb (XBOX)TehChubbyDugan: The polarity system itself is pretty dated and has some severe issues. You put in a lot of resources, time, etc and this investment results in a loss of modularity in exchange for strength and utility. The fact that power is on one side of the scales and loss of modularity is on the other sounds balanced to some, but to me when you add in the time and resource investments the scales tip the wrong way. Of my 2,500ish hours a huge chunk of that has been spent leveling. Now part of that is because the XP system itself is kind of bad. The bulk of power doesn't come from leveling, it comes from modding, so you could make the argument that the closest analogue to XP in other games is actually Endo. Leveling, especially once you get Forma involved starts to feel more like a time-gate to being able to actually play the game because getting to 30 to have full access to your powers takes forever outside of focused XP farming. People sit in areas like Hydron or SO/ESO to get the leveling part over as fast as possible so they can go back to the other content they actually want to play and the time investment in just farming XP in the same couple of areas is absolutely massive. The "Hydron problem" is a different topic though. When you have such a massive investment between expending relics or platinum for Forma, the cost and time spent building and waiting for Forma, and then the time spent re-leveling, it starts to feel disrespectful when the devs do more and more to increase Forma spending. Enter Sevagoth. By the time I have him at the power level I want him, he'll have 15 Forma across both forms and exalted weapon. 15 Forma and he'll be basically about as effective as a dozen other frames I have with half that amount applied. Not only is this a bad precedent for DE and the community to be okay with, but there is no extra return for this massive amount of investment. He's not twice the frame that any other forma heave frame I have is. He might not even end up top tier, I haven't fully tested him yet. Of course "You don't have to use him." "No one is making you do that." I get it. But to release a frame that requires twice the investment of top tier frames to even just be on par with them isn't a good look. It does however highlight the need for a system revamp. Forma Sharing is probably not the best name for this concept, but "Forma Points" doesn't sound great either even though that's what I'm suggesting. The number of Forma applied should just allot you a number of slots that you can polarize how you want, including the ability to change a polarity with the first forma applied unlocking the ability to swap existing polarities for something else like it does with moving the slots themselves around. Example: You have a frame with two Naramon polarities at base. You cannot change these. After applying forma to the frame once you may now swap all 3 (2 base, 1 from forma) polarities around including making them all blank, with 3 "points" permanently added so that you know how many slots you can repolarize at any time. The points can be reapplied differently to each loadout. You would still have to stick a bunch of Forma onto gear, it would still be a large time and resource investment, but you would gain modularity back and things like Sevagoth wouldn't have to be an issue. You could just have your 5 or 6 Forma applied and use those points differently for both forms. You wouldn't have to lock in a build on 40 rank weapons just to get the mastery out of them. It would lower Forma costs for things like Sevagoth or for mix/maxers that have more than one frame for different polarizations, but unless DE wants to admit they keep increasing Forma costs on purpose for profit, I don't see why a small decrease like that should be a big deal. This would also fix the growing issue with weapons where they change core mechanics like status effects, shift metas and then cause a massive cascade of Forma costs when your build no longer works like it used to across dozens of weapons. I have hundreds of Forma applied and use tons of different weapons. A drastic shift in the meta would either leave most of my arsenal weak, or incur gigantic Forma and time costs. Swappable polarities that are loadout independent would solve that issue and the majority of initial investment costs would still be the same. It's future-proofing and fixes outliers like Sevagoth. DE loves using the term outlier in defense of nerfs. Use it to throw us a bone here. I like what I read! +1... but.... Money ..... more forma sales.... more needed frames/slots bought for different builds... DE made us use 4 forma for an Aura forma ... they probably will let us have to use 6 forma or so for one universal forma slot ... Well ... let‘s just hope DE will decide to hear and use feedback more often .... 😶 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)TehChubbyDugan Posted July 25, 2021 Author Share Posted July 25, 2021 6 hours ago, Mortico said: I like what I read! +1... but.... Money ..... more forma sales.... more needed frames/slots bought for different builds... DE made us use 4 forma for an Aura forma ... they probably will let us have to use 6 forma or so for one universal forma slot ... Well ... let‘s just hope DE will decide to hear and use feedback more often .... 😶 I don't want universal forma, or universale forma slots, I want an overhaul of the system where applying forma gives you the ability to adjust and respec as many slots as forma spent. I want outliers like Sevagoth to never happen again because any forma applied to his base form should have granted different polarities of your choosing to his shadow form without having to spend twice the forma. I honestly hate that I enjoy the core gameplay and art design for this game as much as I do because they get so many other things like this so WRONG and so many other games do it right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mortico Posted July 25, 2021 Share Posted July 25, 2021 vor 1 Stunde schrieb (XBOX)TehChubbyDugan: I don't want universal forma, or universale forma slots, I want an overhaul of the system where applying forma gives you the ability to adjust and respec as many slots as forma spent. I want outliers like Sevagoth to never happen again because any forma applied to his base form should have granted different polarities of your choosing to his shadow form without having to spend twice the forma. I honestly hate that I enjoy the core gameplay and art design for this game as much as I do because they get so many other things like this so WRONG and so many other games do it right. I understand you... what I meant with that is that DE will most likely implement universal forma.. cause ... money... But I prefer your idea 😔 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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