First Frame Choice Lacks Enough Education

[Ishmael]

I see lots of posts discussing the cost to buy a second frame, but right now the core issue I'm feeling is that first choice of one of three frames is made with very little knowledge in the game and the "feel" of a particular class. If you end up with a frame that has powers you're not really into, you're (currently) hosed.

For a new-user to very early commit to a specific frame that they may not enjoy is opening yourselves up to hemmoraging a lot of new players that may enjoy the game a lot more with one of the other two starter frames that they didn't pick and now have no way of knowing they'd like more (or not).

I'm not suggesting the game be easier. I'm not suggesting that you level faster. I'm only suggesting that I can willingly delete / sell my starting frame and pick from one of the other two so I can try them out before I decide which to commit to. I don't expect to keep my earned levels in the first frame (would be nice though so I can try other powers sooner) nor my weapons (again, would be nice if they were shared between those frames), but that I don't have to abandon that account, nickname, etc.

Currently, it seems my only recourse is to create a new account. That's fail.

Alternately, a frame VR simulation that I am put into before I make that choice would be nice; running around all three of the starting frames with at least a power or two unlocked would help make that first choice a much more educated one.

Either way, this should be addressed.

[Cakes]

Weapons are shared between warframes.

In fact an interesting weapons selection phenomenon right now is that the melee weapon is saved per individual warframe (changing from Skana to Cronus on one warframe does not change it to Cronus for the rest) while the long gun and pistol slots are carried over (changing your Braton to Boar on one warframe changes it to the Boar as well for the rest).

[Ryme]

The good news is that currently you are able to make every one of thoes starter frames with ingame resources. Pick one you think will be fun and just get the parts to make another if you don't like it. If you absolutely can't decide, just stick with the Excalibur frame you tried in the tutorial. All the starter frames play out similarily early on. By the time they start branching out from one another, you will have access to parts to make the one you want.

[KyleOne]

I think there's a general lack of up-front information that everyone feels. How much damage does excalibur's 1 do at lvl 1, 2, 3? How much damage do Volt's skills do? How does armor work?

I like to read all that stuff and have more info about who to buy/ how to upgrade.

It would be nice to have more stats, deeper descriptions in-game.

[Ishmael]

The good news is that currently you are able to make every one of thoes starter frames with ingame resources.

Yes, and that's a great thing to have, but that's how many hours of play with a frame that you may not really enjoy? By the other posts on the frame construction times, it's 7 days (at least) of time to construct a frame from the blueprints plus boss grinding if you're not accelerating anything through currency.

By that point, many new players will just eject if they're not seeing the fun with the frame they picked.

The more I think about it, it may be better to not offer the choice of starting frame (everyone starts Excalibur) so that everyone gets used to playing before being pressed with a "what if" scenario that may leave some wanting if they're not having as much fun as they initially thought.

Any choice means there's room for a player to perceive that they made the "wrong" choice. In an F2P environment, it's likely better they don't get to make choices early on.

If you did start everyone off with the same frame, you could also make the "starting three" cheaper to build and collect so that there's more opportunity to switch in the first 5-10 hours of play, which is enough time for people to grok the core game and make a more educated decision on how they like to play.

Edited February 28, 2013 by Ishmael

[G3rman]

Same thing as MMOs, you can't just restart and pick a new class. Starting frames are cheap in the market for those willing to shell out the money early if they do not like their original choice. The description is relatively obvious in what they all are meant to do, and their names can give hints as well.

I really don't see any point in this.

Edited February 28, 2013 by G3rman

[_Rue_]

wiki has a lot of info... is your first frame at lvel 30? Have your supercharged it? each frame has to be handled differently. Different mod sets, playstles, ect. You should give your frame a chance, especially given the new update that's coming.

I think the only regret i had when i chos my first fram was when i didn't select loki and it wasn't farmable... it's not an issue anymore, so I hav no regrets. :D

also, the first three frames are sold for 75 plat each. I think it's a viabl alternative for players who think they made a mistake in choosing their first frame.

If you're not into that then create a new account.

[Ishmael]

Same thing as MMOs, you can't just restart and pick a new class.

Uh, what? I can start a new character at any time in almost every MMO currently in existence.

Starting frames are cheap in the market for those willing to shell out the money early if they do not like their original choice. The description is relatively obvious in what they all are meant to do, and their names can give hints as well.

Hints != experience in playing, and are open to interpretation. This is about new player perceptions, ones that are likely not willing to immediately pay realy money before they understand the game.

wiki has a lot of info... is your first frame at lvel 30? Have your supercharged it? each frame has to be handled differently. Different mod sets, playstles, ect

My point is that many new players aren't going to read the wiki, so they're not going to get exposed to any information other than what the game provides to them directly, which is not enough to make a "wise" choice.

also, the first three frames are sold for 75 plat each. I think it's a viabl alternative for players who think they made a mistake in choosing their first frame. If you're not into that then create a new account.

I'm saying that the choice of frame may be too early for most players to be ready to spend money if they feel the messed up in their choice, so instead of spending cash, they'll just leave, which is not what's desired for both the business and concurrency for paying players.

[Ryme]

Yes, and that's a great thing to have, but that's how many hours of play with a frame that you may not really enjoy? By the other posts on the frame construction times, it's 7 days (at least) of time to construct a frame from the blueprints plus boss grinding if you're not accelerating anything through currency.

By that point, many new players will just eject if they're not seeing the fun with the frame they picked.

The more I think about it, it may be better to not offer the choice of starting frame (everyone starts Excalibur) so that everyone gets used to playing before being pressed with a "what if" scenario that may leave some wanting if they're not having as much fun as they initially thought.

Any choice means there's room for a player to perceive that they made the "wrong" choice. In an F2P environment, it's likely better they don't get to make choices early on.

If you did start everyone off with the same frame, you could also make the "starting three" cheaper to build and collect so that there's more opportunity to switch in the first 5-10 hours of play, which is enough time for people to grok the core game and make a more educated decision on how they like to play.

All the starter frames play about the same in the beginning. By the time it starts to matter and they start unlocking the abilities that differentiate them from each other, they will have access to the parts to make another frame. If they don't even like the frame at the start of the game, that's more an issue that they just don't like the game.

[G3rman]

Uh, what? I can start a new character at any time in almost every MMO currently in existence.

Hints != experience in playing, and are open to interpretation. This is about new player perceptions, ones that are likely not willing to immediately pay realy money before they understand the game.

You can't change that character's class you just made is what I mean.

Sorry to be blunt, but there is little room to interpret that "Volt" is a DPS class, Excalibur is a melee, beginner class, and Loki is a utility, advanced class. That's not even looking into what the significance behind the names are. Not thinking about the frame's description and just picking at face value is how you end up in your spot; mods and other such customization can make Volt into a melee friendly class or Excalibur into a tank like Rhino, but that's something for the player to do themselves.

[MJ12]

The good news is that currently you are able to make every one of thoes starter frames with ingame resources. Pick one you think will be fun and just get the parts to make another if you don't like it. If you absolutely can't decide, just stick with the Excalibur frame you tried in the tutorial. All the starter frames play out similarily early on. By the time they start branching out from one another, you will have access to parts to make the one you want.

The parts for these starter frames are dropped on Jupiter, Neptune, and Pluto.

Easily accessed they are not. They are actually some of the hardest frames to craft.

They should be dropped on Mercury and be much, much easier to craft. Say, having 1 hour wait times for their components and 12h for the frame itself, not needing resources you can't get on Mercury, and having them drop with a very high probability from Mercury boss(es).

[ZAPTONE]

I agree that there is no info available to new players about their frame. I choose volt with the thought that I could easily change to one of the other starter frames. Turns out it is quite challenging to get those frames without farming a lot.

[Examillion]

I agree. I pressed ONCE on the Volt and it instantly picked that frame without letting me go back on that decision. I wanted Loki but when I saw the entire process of manually obtaining all resources/components//blue prints I just got the First tier of the Founder's program and got Rhino.

I never looked back, I am farming for an axe right now before thinking of another Frame.

[BunnyMind]

I agree with this.

Forcing such an important choice onto a person who has been playing for all of like two minutes with basically no ability to change their mind until much later is an astoundingly bad design decision.

Allowing the players to at least test out the different warframes before choosing one would be a good idea, as would making the starter warframes easier to craft.

[Ryme]

I agree. I pressed ONCE on the Volt and it instantly picked that frame without letting me go back on that decision. I wanted Loki but when I saw the entire process of manually obtaining all resources/components//blue prints I just got the First tier of the Founder's program and got Rhino.

I never looked back, I am farming for an axe right now before thinking of another Frame.

For what its worth, that's how I ended up with Loki. I *@##$ed about it until the day a patch gave every frame different movement speeds, and Loki turned out to be one of the fast ones. Now I $#*(@ about Rhino.

Edited February 28, 2013 by Ryme

[Examillion]

For what its worth, that's how I ended up with Loki. I *@##$ed about it until the day a patch gave every frame different movement speeds, and Loki turned out to be one of the fast ones. Now I $#*(@ about Rhino.

I have to be honest, those censors actually leave out important information on how to perceive your sentences. Do you like or dislike Rhino because of the recent movement speed changes?

[Ryme]

I have to be honest, those censors actually leave out important information on how to perceive your sentences. Do you like or dislike Rhino because of the recent movement speed changes?

I dislike it. The different speeds seem unnecessary. The game focuses on run n' gun action game play. A decrease in speed is a HUGE impairment on your ability to engage enemies. Were this a game like Gear of War or Ghost Recon, that also utilized tactics and cover mechanics, it would make sense to have slower frames that would provide support, while faster frames rushed enemy lines.

In this game, a single fast frame can rush a room full of enemies and pop off one skil to clear the entire place before an enemy is ever within your sights. The game does not feature actual cooperative gameplay or tactics. It's pretty much a free for all rush to grab the most you can for yourself. Players blocking each other's shots and "stealing kills" from one another other is common practice. Especially inconsiderate rushers won't even wait at elevators, leaving others behind simply because they can't sprint as fast.

[MoustacheMike]

I dislike it. The different speeds seem unnecessary. The game focuses on run n' gun action game play. A decrease in speed is a HUGE impairment on your ability to engage enemies. Were this a game like Gear of War or Ghost Recon, that also utilized tactics and cover mechanics, it would make sense to have slower frames that would provide support, while faster frames rushed enemy lines.

In this game, a single fast frame can rush a room full of enemies and pop off one skil to clear the entire place before an enemy is ever within your sights. The game does not feature actual cooperative gameplay or tactics. It's pretty much a free for all rush to grab the most you can for yourself. Players blocking each other's shots and "stealing kills" from one another other is common practice. Especially inconsiderate rushers won't even wait at elevators, leaving others behind simply because they can't sprint as fast.

And that's why you have mods like rush / stamina ...