Warframetrading - Price Lists For Mods

[Zakalwe]

Please take this down...

 

We do not need another site dictating the TRUE value of everything like the spreadsheet in TF2.

 

I appreciate your intent, but this will only harm the community and has the potential to be abused.

[IamSalva]

We do not need another site dictating the TRUE value of everything like the spreadsheet in TF2.

 

I appreciate your intent, but this will only harm the community and has the potential to be abused.

 

As i said, we don´t try to dictate anything, we try to reflect.

And yes, it could be abused, but i trust myselfe not to do it, i can understand if you don´t trust me yet, hope i can prove me worth of trust ;)

[Zakalwe]

As i said, we don´t try to dictate anything, we try to reflect.

And yes, it could be abused, but i trust myselfe not to do it, i can understand if you don´t trust me yet, hope i can prove me worth of trust ;)

Sorry, but it's still not a good idea to dictate the TRUE prices this way. 

 

Let the market be free, not just a reference sheet.

 

Thanks.

[IamSalva]

Sorry, but it's still not a good idea to dictate the TRUE prices this way. 

 

Let the market be free, not just a reference sheet.

 

Thanks.

 

We don´t want to force anyone to accept this prices and even if we would like to force, we can´t. You are free in your trading habbits!

Is the Stock Market not a Market anymore for you because you can look up the exact prices for Stocks?

Its the same thing, a reflection of what is going on on the market.

[Dogoframe]

Salva, even tho I dont have anything personal against you, I will probably have to make a stand against the website. Not that I matter much in the greater scheme, but I am telling you this so I dont come out jerkish when I constantly speak out against it.

 

Not 4 days into Platinum trading and there are already illegal transactions going on the internet. This is a PVE game with no kicking options, so anyone can have MODs and credits by leeching others in spawn, which happens all the time and will only get worse. Giving those people a base price, with supposed foundation on a "market", is setting a profit margin for leeching.

 

Find someone trying to host a Nightmare mission for fun, and I will show you someone who can and will have a leecher joining for a possible "2/4/8" platinum profit.

 

I dont check the trade check very often when I am playing, but we will see people using the word "spreadsheet" before the end of next week there. And it will be like this: Buying X MOD for lower spreadsheet price - Selling Y MOD for higher spreadsheet price.

 

Less informed ruder people will start calling others "scammers" as soon as a price is typed and it is higher than the spreadsheet's suggestion.

 

A suggested price also motivates those who like to "make a profit", and sets a standard to anyone who wants to join the killing.

 

I could go on, and probably will. I will not apologise for my stance on this, but on a friendly neighborhood policy I want to state again. This is nothing personally against you or your contributors. But while this thred is open and the spreadsheet exists, I cannot remain silent.

[HeirOfBlood]

Salva, even tho I dont have anything personal against you, I will probably have to make a stand against the website. Not that I matter much in the greater scheme, but I am telling you this so I dont come out jerkish when I constantly speak out against it.

 

Not 4 days into Platinum trading and there are already illegal transactions going on the internet. This is a PVE game with no kicking options, so anyone can have MODs and credits by leeching others in spawn, which happens all the time and will only get worse. Giving those people a base price, with supposed foundation on a "market", is setting a profit margin for leeching.

 

Find someone trying to host a Nightmare mission for fun, and I will show you someone who can and will have a leecher joining for a possible "2/4/8" platinum profit.

 

I dont check the trade check very often when I am playing, but we will see people using the word "spreadsheet" before the end of next week there. And it will be like this: Buying X MOD for lower spreadsheet price - Selling Y MOD for higher spreadsheet price.

 

Less informed ruder people will start calling others "scammers" as soon as a price is typed and it is higher than the spreadsheet's suggestion.

 

A suggested price also motivates those who like to "make a profit", and sets a standard to anyone who wants to join the killing.

 

I could go on, and probably will. I will not apologise for my stance on this, but on a friendly neighborhood policy I want to state again. This is nothing personally against you or your contributors. But while this thred is open and the spreadsheet exists, I cannot remain silent.

Me, and many more, are with you, dude.

[NN13]

Trading is way too complex to just follow a "list"....

Let me explain it the simplest way,without going into complex economy of the game...

What happens If a "list" doesnt exist-

Person X makes huge profit from his first trade,good for him....Then people see n learn,n Person X's profit goes down to a value where both Person X n the buyer is happy.

Now,think of Person Y....This guy,instead of making a profit, actually makes a loss. But after learning,he starts making profit n eventually makes up for his loss.

Now,if "list" exist,people will follow it blindly,so Person X will not face any prob(had his profit already) BUT Person Y will never be able to make up for the loss on his first trade.

 

N to be honest,Trading in a game solely depends on the the convincing power n negotiating power,it shud not follow a "list"....

[ChumLee]

price lists are far too easy to use for personal gain and market manipulation.

we have seen this in tf2.

spreadsheet owners and their mods manipulate market economy to buy stuff they want cheap, then raise the price sheet when they want to sell.

 

big no.

[eksby]

As i said, we don´t try to dictate anything, we try to reflect.

And yes, it could be abused, but i trust myselfe not to do it, i can understand if you don´t trust me yet, hope i can prove me worth of trust ;)

Did you read what we are saying? We understand that you will try hard to not abuse it, but the problem isn't that. The problem is that people will take your spreadsheet prices as "the true market price", no matter how much you tell them "it's just SUGGESTED prices".

 

Please, please take it down. I know you mean well, and I'm sad that all your hard work will be for naught, but this is seriously not good for the future of the market in Warframe. Take it from those of us who have seen firsthand how a spreadsheet destroyed another game's market.

[FrostOmega]

On a side note, I looked a bit the trading chat this weekend.... and i'm a bit shocked...

 

400 plats for a Max serration??? And, at the same time, 10 plats for max Vitality??? I'm still not sure who's ripping who off...

[Zakalwe]

On a side note, I looked a bit the trading chat this weekend.... and i'm a bit shocked...

 

400 plats for a Max serration??? And, at the same time, 10 plats for max Vitality??? I'm still not sure who's ripping who off...

What you saw was probably one person trying to get the most for his Max Serration, and another trying to buy a Max Redirection for as cheap as possible.

 

This is why a list would be a bad thing. Everyone has their own idea of value, to some a Max Serration is worth 300-500 platinum because it represents a large time investment, to others it's only worth 100 because they value platinum very highly, for example.

 

There is no "ripping people off". Everyone can see the chat stream, everyone is capable of doing a little research and finding out what the ranges for each item are. Sometimes people simply don't agree with those, and just want a fast trade or to maximise the amount of platinum they will get because they value the amount of time it took them to create the max mod, and so on.

 

this i a /good/ thing. It enables people to profit and it enables bargains to be had, and it also enables anyone to earn their platinum back if they feel bad about a trade they made.

[IamSalva]

@FrostOmega:

Price Lists for ranked Mods are comming!

 

@

Zakalwe

Who ever sells a Max Redirection for 10 Plat .. this is a Rip Off... but thats not really a Problem, every Player should know how long it took to max a 10 Rank Mod... a Problem are new or unknown Mods, like you can see with the new Melee Damage/ Poison Damage Mods.

 

And tell me what you want, experienced players are ripping off others with these Mods, buying them for cheap from those who don´t know they got something "new and shiny" and selling them to a higher price to those who don´t want to rip off others or don´t have time to lurk the trade chat for hours until some "easy prey" shows up.

 

"Everyone can see the chat stream, everyone is capable of doing a little research and finding out what the ranges for each item are. "

 

How? How can a new or casual player get a idea how much a mod is worth? 

From the trolling comments in the wiki? Or asking the ppl in the chat that want to get "a nice bargain" from the trades? Make a Thread on the forums? Watch the Trade chat for some hours?

 

There is no easy way to find out about the value of a Mod if you are a casual player and don´t invest that much time into the game.

 

Oh, now there is one.. its WarframeTrading.wyldside.de ;)

Edited November 25, 2013 by IamSalva

[HeirOfBlood]

Sir, i'll have you know, that many ppl asked kindly, and you're ignoring us.

Every newbie can just get his/her facts straight before getting to buy/sell something. The lowest level for trading is 3, and that's more than enough experience about watching the chat in game or looking at the forums for information about mods prices, if he does even know how to trade, or at least wants to trade at that point of the game.

[eksby]

OP, I wish you would address some of the points that we have given if you disagree with them. Everyone is saying that we realize you're trying to do a good favor for those who know less about trading than the more "veteran" players, but as we've said repeatedly the problem with a pricelist is that people will take the pricelist as the actual market price instead of just as a suggestion/guideline. And of course there are many reasons and examples listed above that it would be nice to see you address.

[Dogoframe]

Thought I would pass by and ask folks on opinions on this: https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/137024-feedback-suggestions-trading/#entry1634495

[Zakalwe]

 

 

Oh, now there is one.. its WarframeTrading.wyldside.de ;)

Have you ignored all the valid points against this website?

Telling people there is an absolute price/range for an item will do much more harm than good.

 

You need to read through these posts and really consider the points being made. 

 

We appreciate you're trying to do something good, but this will damage the market much more than it will help it.

[Dogoframe]

I dont think there is any point in asking for the website to go down. At least from my perspective, if the OP is well meaning they will rightfully see no reason to oblige to people who disagree with him just because (and I am sure all or at least most of us would act the same way). If they arent well meaning, they were first, and having control, partial or otherwise, of "Warframe's Spreadsheet" is too much to pass on.

 

Let's take our personal positions, for or against it, and turn it into feedback on trading to DE. While I deeply reject the idea of the spreadsheet, the OP has been polite in their replies, even tho we are here basically casting stones at them. If they dont have my support, their forum attitude has my respect at least.

 

Edit: @Zakalwe: Sorry for editing to reply, but I want to avoid bumping this thread yet again. I agree the commendation is generous, but all this reminds me too much of TF2 trading. And anything remotely similar to this thread would be met with expletives that would make a sailor blush.

Edited November 25, 2013 by Dogoframe

[AwAveZ]

Offer and demand dictate any market.

Look @ some economy model and you will see that you can't fix any price on any good.

Yes, you can tell the value of something @ a T moment, but the price will variate depending on a lot of factors.

You can think its good for new traders for them to have an idea of price range but its also bad because as soon as the site is outdated they will be mislead.

Edited November 25, 2013 by AwAveZ

[HeirOfBlood]

Offer and demand dictate any market.

Look @ some economy model and you will see that you can't fix any price on any good.

Yes, you can tell the value of something @ a T moment, but the price will variate depending on a lot of factors.

You can think its good for new traders for them to have an idea of price range but its also bad because as soon as the site is outdated they will be mislead.

>And as soon as they're outdated, because either didn't check the site, or the site was, they'll be missleading others.

[Zakalwe]

 

Let's take our personal positions, for or against it, and turn it into feedback on trading to DE. While I deeply reject the idea of the spreadsheet, the OP has been polite in their replies, even tho we are here basically casting stones at them. If they dont have my support, their forum attitude has my respect at least.

This would be valid if he'd engaged in response to the points made against it, but he doesn't seem to be interested in doing that.

So while we cannot force him to take his site down, I don't see why he's worth commending.

[IamSalva]

This would be valid if he'd engaged in response to the points made against it, but he doesn't seem to be interested in doing that.

So while we cannot force him to take his site down, I don't see why he's worth commending.

 

sorry i don´t see any valid points made, exept 

1. "You want to Dictate Prices !!!!111one -> We don´t want that, we want to reflect the market

2. "The Market isn´t free anymore" /"i can´t turn a profit if everyone sells/buys according to this list!" -> Sounds to me like "I can´t rip off ppl who don´t hand out in the trade chat all day" Do i have to say anything about it?

 

So just formulate your valid points in one short sentence and i will reply to it.

[eksby]

sorry i don´t see any valid points made, exept 

1. "You want to Dictate Prices !!!!111one -> We don´t want that, we want to reflect the market

2. "The Market isn´t free anymore" /"i can´t turn a profit if everyone sells/buys according to this list!" -> Sounds to me like "I can´t rip off ppl who don´t hand out in the trade chat all day" Do i have to say anything about it?

 

So just formulate your valid points in one short sentence and i will reply to it.

Here you go:

 

Even if you want to "reflect the market", people will take your pricelist as absolute truth, which defeats the purpose of "reflecting the market". Instead, it will dictate the market, even if you do not intend to dictate it.

Edited November 26, 2013 by kuliise

[IamSalva]

If this should happen, that would prove that the site was very needed and asked for, because this can only happen if nearly every player uses the site for reference.

 

Also it will all shake up with new mod releases, even in the unlikley case that this would happen.

[HeirOfBlood]

Dude, i'm studying echonomy in college, trust me, you're doing this wrong. So wrong. As kuliise said, you'll end up dictating the market, and limiting ppl to prices writen on a sheetspread.

It's not a thing of ripping off ppl or ppl being ripped off. It's called a MARKET, where one stats his price, and the other accepts or deny it's price.

There's not a "fixed" value or price for anything, independently. X thing can be a lot more valuable to A person than to B person, and he'll be willing to pay a lot more, while B person will be liking to pay a lot more for Y thing.

Did i explain myself? You would be killing the market.

Come on dude, don't listen to me, listen to Adam Smith!

[eksby]

If this should happen, that would prove that the site was very needed and asked for, because this can only happen if nearly every player uses the site for reference.

 

Also it will all shake up with new mod releases, even in the unlikley case that this would happen.

Doesn't that mean that you want to dictate prices? That is kind of what you are saying. 

 

And it's not an unlikely case, as shown by backpack.tf, if you would like to take a look at that site. That's the major pricelist site that the TF2 trading community swears by...basically no one goes below the min price on that site. Take a look at TF2Outpost and search up any item that is listed in backpack.tf and I can almost guarantee there will be no one selling below min price. Unlikely case huh? More like, completely obvious direction that the pricelist will take.

 

We all know you mean well, but PLEASE for the love of Warframe listen to us!

Edited November 26, 2013 by kuliise