Melee Is Useless

[Renathy]

Ninja, I'll sum it up.

Level up your weapon and while you're doing so, if you get stunned a lot, then use heavy charge attacks before-hand.

Then by the time your weapon will be Level 30 and you'll have great mods that will make it indestructible.

[--Sensei--]

Stop sucking the devs @#&$. Seriously why is it everytime some one makes a thread mostly the same people post saying that nothing is wrong with the game and that the game is absolutely perfect in every way?

that's because it is perfect, you're just doing it wrong

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JoL3jLY1UIw

Need I say more?

[Crimduval]

Just use the Duel Zoren with four or five 75% melee mods on your frame, then four or three crit rate mods with the rest AP mods on the Duel Zoren.

You'll one hit all basic mobs, and kill ancients and heavys in a few seconds, they're totally not overpowered at all!

Anywho, as melee is now, you need to know when you can or can't melee something. If you rush in at multiple mobs with the wrong frame to melee them all, you're ganna die. Tho, I do agree stagger is a bit much on some enemies. D:

[Lunaticked]

You kidding? If anything, melee is a bit overpowered. Guns can't take out 3 enemies with one strike.

[krisp]

Stop sucking the devs @#&$. Seriously why is it everytime some one makes a thread mostly the same people post saying that nothing is wrong with the game and that the game is absolutely perfect in every way?

"anyone who disagrees with my ignorant opinion is sucking the devs @#&$."

Well that's a great way to get yourself taken seriously.

[Nevrmoor]

please, keep the war in the game.

I disagree with your op because melee isnt supposed to be your get-out-of-jail free card. It is another way of dealing dmg. The Devs said they try to balance melee, guns and powers to have almost equal impact on the game, which is a tough task. Here and there are some issues but after all melee works. You cant just "ow, let me mash e and kill all stuff" that wont work. Im not sure what exactly your problem is that you have with your melee attacks, but it comes down to either timing or tactics/ method of employment. If you are having issues with staggering, rethink your approach and avoid situations in which you are being staggered, use different attacks, there are already plenty, use melee in conjunction with your powers and guns etc etc.

Saying "its broken because i cant do it" with others using melee with great success shows how tricky this game is and how high the skillcap has grown already. This isnt a point and click monster masher game, game mechanics are relying on the user to perform the magic, not prefabricated abilites cast with the click of a button.

There is a niche for every weapon, tactic and frame.

The heavy melees wont get you staggered if youre mashing melee

The other weapons work well with charged or slide attacks

Dual anything are dealing AoE dmg and wont interupt your movement through the enemies while dealing high amounts of dmg.

Just dodge and move around those who try to stagger you, hit them from behind or from the sides, find weak spots ... list is endless

Try to find some help if youre having any issues, there are hundreds of people out there just waiting to share their experience with others and work on tactics and moves.

[Renan.Ruivo]

Stop sucking the devs @#&$. Seriously why is it everytime some one makes a thread mostly the same people post saying that nothing is wrong with the game and that the game is absolutely perfect in every way?

Stop bellyaching just because you don't know how to use the game mechanics to your advantage?!

Sorry mate, you lost your right to be treated serioulsy when you wrote a self-entitled, self-absorbed OP.

Nobody here sucks devs @#&$. It's you who suck @#&$ at providing proper feedback and asking a question in an educated manner.

[Renan.Ruivo]

That was my first impression as well. It's hard to appreciate weapons that are only effective against some of the enemy factions, not all of them (like the scindo or gram).

I haven't had a problem with being stunned with it through, at least when spamming the normal attack. If you stand in front of your target charging your attack like a doofus, then you're asking for a rifle butt to the face.

With Loki, i've been able to use it to great effect against both corpus and grineer of all levels, even if the amphis itself is low ranked. However only slashing weapons are really effective against the infected. It's no surprise that a rank 30 loki with rank 30 DHS puts boots to asses against infected.

Still, i'm loving the Amphis. One of the few weapons that can kill moas at any height.

Plus, it really adds to the composition of my white/black Loki:

Edited March 2, 2013 by ruivoml

[Oktalz]

Stuns and staggers need to be reworked, its a little outrageous. I've heard of games where players complain about other players stunlocking them, but AI?

My god another thread from people who can´t time their attacks worth a damn. More people who simply can´t play a game. What part of "timing" and "decisivenes" is so bloody hard for you people to handle that you can´t complain on the game rather than your own inability to play properly?

Easy to put the blame on others rather than look at your own errors. And you probably call yourselves gamers. I wish most of you could be thrown back to the 8-bit era where I and the DEV team of this and so many other games grew up and then you could cry about poor controls and timing jumps on nonexistant pressure sensitive D-pad.

Wow you are all so spoiled rotten with these quicktime event games, signs showing you where to go and what to do so you don´t have to use any form of brainactivity at all. Pampered is what people have become, and when things require skill and thinking in even the slightest fashion they complain they are unable to rise to that simple task.

I feel like laughing at the lot of you, waitingf or all the reports on this reply. But If I get reported it will just cement the point I´m making. So go ahead.

[Oktalz]

Stop sucking the devs @#&$. Seriously why is it everytime some one makes a thread mostly the same people post saying that nothing is wrong with the game and that the game is absolutely perfect in every way?

Same thing applies to you as to the rest in the reply to G3rman. Look to yourself first before whining.

[Feindfeuer]

I actually find melee too easy atm and hope that future additions will make it a little more complex and hard to pull off successfuly. Especially on higher difficulty levels. Atm you can run in and chop multiple enemies into pieces with one well placed charge attack, the only thing you have to time right is when you begin to charge as the enemies have no way to block or avoid your attack, even dedicated melee enemies or one equipped with gigantic shields are helpless against any kind of melee attack.

The only thing the enemies can do atm to counter players in melee is the disrupting attacks, the little bit of staggering and stunning they can do. The problem with this is twofold; on the one hand this method does not counter a good melee player at all, as he will execute his move before the enemy as a chance to stagger him, and on the other hand the player resorting to melee as a panic button can not rely on it as he'll mostly try to use it in situations where he's already getting stunned and staggered by the enemy and can't use his melee effectivly anymore.

But maybe the addition of block mechanics will solve both the 'getting stunned' problem of the panic crowed and the 'too easy farming' of the murderous melee players.

[Smith0rz]

Flinching after EVERY hit makes melee useless becuase you cant attack, and I mean come on we are suposed to be powerful beings but after every hit when act like we were hit by a car.

Flinching should only happen after strong attacks not every attack.

Uncle say: A ninja must always adapt to each situation. If you want to use the stronger form of attack you have to at a risk, if you aren't good enough get better and learn what each situation calls for. Assassination 101, and we aren't gods we are ninjas/assassins which means stealth and precision is our strong point not full out attacks.

[Oktalz]

I actually find melee too easy atm and hope that future additions will make it a little more complex and hard to pull off successfuly. Especially on higher difficulty levels. Atm you can run in and chop multiple enemies into pieces with one well placed charge attack, the only thing you have to time right is when you begin to charge as the enemies have no way to block or avoid your attack, even dedicated melee enemies or one equipped with gigantic shields are helpless against any kind of melee attack.

The only thing the enemies can do atm to counter players in melee is the disrupting attacks, the little bit of staggering and stunning they can do. The problem with this is twofold; on the one hand this method does not counter a good melee player at all, as he will execute his move before the enemy as a chance to stagger him, and on the other hand the player resorting to melee as a panic button can not rely on it as he'll mostly try to use it in situations where he's already getting stunned and staggered by the enemy and can't use his melee effectivly anymore.

But maybe the addition of block mechanics will solve both the 'getting stunned' problem of the panic crowed and the 'too easy farming' of the murderous melee players.

If you have additions to Melee combat have a look at the extensive thread I made on the subject. Please add your own additions. I have asked DE_Steve to have a look at it and talk to Goeff the animator and Steve said he would. So the more ideas we can have on the subject. CONSTRUCTIVE feedback and not useless whine (not directed at the quoted) is what we are looking for here.

Have a look and before replying DO look at the conversations before you post, as the ideas evolve. I will add the evolution to the main post as time goes on. Hopefully this can add to the game.

The link is here : https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/13148-de-about-melee-combat/

Cheers

[Vant]

Stop sucking the devs @#&$. Seriously why is it everytime some one makes a thread mostly the same people post saying that nothing is wrong with the game and that the game is absolutely perfect in every way?

because melee isnt broken and simply saying it is without much detail into why the OP thinks its broken is like making a joke post. you cant just say something is broken and then not explain why you really think its broken. Melee really isnt, you just cant be a idiot and stand next to a enemy and expect them to let you charge attack without hitting you so you cant. I kill swarms of infested with melee, my zorens are amazing.

[Vant]

I tried most of those and couldnt even move becuase I was swarmed. I couldnt even move and in 10seconds I was dead. I have 818 shield....

i doubt you have 818 shield and still cant learn how to use melee, if your doing it with infested your suppose to charge attack one at a time as they run at you, and if they swarm you then you use your guns to weaken them and then AoE melee to finish them. And if your not used a well modded weapon you might as well not bother at all

[husnielyas]

I tried most of those and couldnt even move becuase I was swarmed. I couldnt even move and in 10seconds I was dead. I have 818 shield....

what weapon, what frame, what levels (frame and weapon) and what mobs (and level) were you fighting?

[RainDreamer]

I think the problems are just with the chargers. which is quite annoying with their mass stun lock attacks. but the rest? They all have a window for you to sneak in an attack or two if you are fast enough. Though having a heavy melee weapon means you just have to swing like a crazy maniac and suddenly all the infested around you die.

[Renan.Ruivo]

My god another thread from people who can´t time their attacks worth a damn. More people who simply can´t play a game. What part of "timing" and "decisivenes" is so bloody hard for you people to handle that you can´t complain on the game rather than your own inability to play properly?

Easy to put the blame on others rather than look at your own errors. And you probably call yourselves gamers. I wish most of you could be thrown back to the 8-bit era where I and the DEV team of this and so many other games grew up and then you could cry about poor controls and timing jumps on nonexistant pressure sensitive D-pad.

Wow you are all so spoiled rotten with these quicktime event games, signs showing you where to go and what to do so you don´t have to use any form of brainactivity at all. Pampered is what people have become, and when things require skill and thinking in even the slightest fashion they complain they are unable to rise to that simple task.

I feel like laughing at the lot of you, waitingf or all the reports on this reply. But If I get reported it will just cement the point I´m making. So go ahead.

Hold on your horses there big fella. One thing is trying to get a point across, another entire different thing is being a jerk. While there are people here who have been spoiled by quicktime games such as Assassins Creed and it's Ilk, i'm pretty sure that G3rman, being one of the most active people on these forums isn't one of them. And to top it off, DE_Steve has agreed with what he said.

What i do think is there are a lot of spoiled people who watch too much House and The Mentalist who think that being a jerk to people will get them anywhere.

[Oktalz]

Hold on your horses there big fella. One thing is trying to get a point across, another entire different thing is being a jerk. While there are people here who have been spoiled by quicktime games such as Assassins Creed and it's Ilk, i'm pretty sure that G3rman, being one of the most active people on these forums isn't one of them. And to top it off, DE_Steve has agreed with what he said.

What i do think is there are a lot of spoiled people who watch too much House and The Mentalist who think that being a jerk to people will get them anywhere.

You think I'm being a jerk here? How about the fact how the op opened his mouth in the worst way a few posts ago and G3rman agrees with him. And you think I'm a jerk? You neef to get your prioritys straight. If anyone is a jerk here it's the OP. Agreeing with him doesnt help, and if I so had 100000 posts on this forum it would not guarantee that I can't be wrong or out of line. I don't see the point you are trying to make. Sure Im a bit harsh at times, but a jerk is far from it.

[Indaliceo]

Hmmm interesting, I don't seem to have any issue in melee (with any weapon) unless I'm using like a rank 5 dual heat sword on pluto. Heavy weapons are immune to flinching once you start swinging (which may or may not be a little too good, who knows), and the other weapons provided you have decent mods on them or aren't just trying to powerlevel them on high rank missions while they're underleveled are fine. Hell I stopped using my dual zoren because at rank 30 with the right mods on them they insta gib everything that's not a boss (and even then if you're running ash you can kill said boss in like 5 seconds... Dem red crits.).

[Renan.Ruivo]

You think I'm being a jerk here? How about the fact how the op opened his mouth in the worst way a few posts ago

The OP opened his mout in the worst way, and me and another guy both trolled him for it (quite a good troll i might add), so i'm not perfect.

G3rman agrees with him.

G3rman didn't agreed with him. He simply conceeded that, and i'll quote him, "Stuns and staggers need to be reworked, its a little outrageous."

This has been a general concensus among the community and, if you watched the livestream, DE_Steve said it's currently stupid (The "ooooh.. i'm a ninja but i've been stunned/knocked down... aww my back.. lemme get up reeeeally slow" performance he did. Quite funny guy he is, yes sir.)

And you think I'm a jerk? You neef to get your prioritys straight. If anyone is a jerk here it's the OP. Agreeing with him doesnt help, and if I so had 100000 posts on this forum it would not guarantee that I can't be wrong or out of line. I don't see the point you are trying to make. Sure Im a bit harsh at times, but a jerk is far from it.

While i did said you were "being a jerk" i'll agree that i should have said "acting like a jerk", because that's what i meant. I don't think you are a jerk, but IMO you acted like one.

Plus, if you think the OP is a jerk, stooping down to his level won't do you any services, quite the contrary. Agreeing with him doesn't help, neither does disrespecting him (something that i did myself). And i'll ask you to enlighten me on how exactly i need to straighten my priorities?

And i don't know what you mean with "100000" posts. I said G3rman is one of the most active persons in this community, not that his post count mattered. Being active in the community means you have a better knowlodge of what the general consensus about the several aspects of what is being discussed are, and even what the developers think about the feedback they're being given.

So if you are not a jerk, just a little harsh sometimes (i should know, i was harsh all the times with everybody before being diagnosed and treated for anxiety issues), you need to cool your blood down, step back from your keyboard and write what you have to say with a cool head. Because it doesn't matter if you aren't a jerk, if you act like one you'll be treated as such.

Just like people treat me as "That Gore Guy".

Don't ask.

[Oktalz]

The OP opened his mout in the worst way, and me and another guy both trolled him for it (quite a good troll i might add), so i'm not perfect.

G3rman didn't agreed with him. He simply conceeded that, and i'll quote him, "Stuns and staggers need to be reworked, its a little outrageous."

This has been a general concensus among the community and, if you watched the livestream, DE_Steve said it's currently stupid (The "ooooh.. i'm a ninja but i've been stunned/knocked down... aww my back.. lemme get up reeeeally slow" performance he did. Quite funny guy he is, yes sir.)

While i did said you were "being a jerk" i'll agree that i should have said "acting like a jerk", because that's what i meant. I don't think you are a jerk, but IMO you acted like one.

Plus, if you think the OP is a jerk, stooping down to his level won't do you any services, quite the contrary. Agreeing with him doesn't help, neither does disrespecting him (something that i did myself). And i'll ask you to enlighten me on how exactly i need to straighten my priorities?

And i don't know what you mean with "100000" posts. I said G3rman is one of the most active persons in this community, not that his post count mattered. Being active in the community means you have a better knowlodge of what the general consensus about the several aspects of what is being discussed are, and even what the developers think about the feedback they're being given.

So if you are not a jerk, just a little harsh sometimes (i should know, i was harsh all the times with everybody before being diagnosed and treated for anxiety issues), you need to cool your blood down, step back from your keyboard and write what you have to say with a cool head. Because it doesn't matter if you aren't a jerk, if you act like one you'll be treated as such.

Just like people treat me as "That Gore Guy".

Don't ask.

Sorry for the coming wall of text.

Imho what Steve did on the livestream could be percieved the way you said. To me it was more a hint to the very LONG time it takes to get back up. Not at the fact that you can get back down. Watch it again and I think you will see it too. Also the additional comments more or less confirms it "when you get knocked down, you can ninja your way out of it". I might be wrong but I´m pretty sure that´s what he meant.

Sure I will agree, I might have acted like a jerk and I know G3rman is active on these forums. I got plenty of knowledge about this game also. I´ve played more than a fair share and I only recently began commenting and adding to the forums as I didn´t want to come here without anything in my knowledgebase and throw stuff into thin air like the OP is doing here. The flinching is hardly worth a thread nor is it a problem in the game. The fact that it may be annoying doesn´t make it boring. I am playing this game and I get knocked down and when I do I realise I should have watched my back or I should not have been running so fast or whatever the reason. I rarely get owned by such stuff and that is why I dont whine about it. I find the simple fact that people cry about knockback and these flinches a tad juvenile. The discussion about the Grinders is another such thing.

The seeker balls is a third. They dont exist in solo play and they are added to co-op to cause you to work as a team and not go rambo, cause you can then get yourself killed. And sure they can be tuned a bit witha duration, and diminishing returns which we have discussed in another thread. But people mostly want them removed entirely or made so big that you can kill them and as such make them more or less useless as they DO DIE in 1 shot. So yes I may be harsh, but Im a core gamer, I like things with a challenge. And to me all these discussions are absolutely only gonna cater to easier play and a more dumbed down game. I´d like it to not become that way.

So yes I do come off as a hardass when I post, and it´s partially because IRL I am a bit of one. I don´t put on a persona when I´m online, I simply am myself. That´s the bottom line. I can´t stand these discussions as they are rather irrelevant compared to more important things such as adding varying enemy types, explorable environments, secret areas, different paths, better enemy behaviour, stronger AI, better and more varying bossbattles and so on and so on.

Am I wrong here? If I am then help me god if these flinching attacks and seeker balls take priority over a wholistically better game design.

[AugmentedJustice]

You're useless. Not the melee. I've cleared countless levels just using melee. It's my main, means of attacking. Guns are secondary to me. You have to time it and compensate for the distance in between you and you're enemy. If you're getting surrounded by enemies, or running up to them in groups and thinking melee will sort this out, then ofcourse you're going to constantly "flinch". This game isn't perfect, but so far, the melee is fine. You just need to learn how to use it properly.

[NinjaTyr]

"anyone who disagrees with my ignorant opinion is sucking the devs @#&$."

Well that's a great way to get yourself taken seriously.

Stop bellyaching just because you don't know how to use the game mechanics to your advantage?!

Sorry mate, you lost your right to be treated serioulsy when you wrote a self-entitled, self-absorbed OP.

Nobody here sucks devs @#&$. It's you who suck @#&$ at providing proper feedback and asking a question in an educated manner.

Same thing applies to you as to the rest in the reply to G3rman. Look to yourself first before whining.

A lot of the replies in threads like mine is "The game devs made it this way thus its perfect."

The game is in closed beta, this is time to work out the bugs not act like this is a finished game.

[NinjaTyr]

what weapon, what frame, what levels (frame and weapon) and what mobs (and level) were you fighting?

Cronus(rank 30), volt, terminus.

Yeah, I went to call an elevator, mobs spawn behind me and then they run around the corner and pin me against a wall and I died before I could do anything. I had no control, couldnt move or attack.