Damage Caps On Bosses

[Genoscythe]

Hello fellow Tenno,

 

I am annoyed by the fact that all the "new" bosses are featuring damage caps and invincibility phases you cannot circumvent by any means, meaning that no matter how long you struggled to max that serration, craft that weapon or get that mod, you cannot kill the boss (Lephantis, Sargas Ruk, Vor) faster than others. This is annoying for more seasoned players like me, because maxing our equipment is the only endgame there is at the moment, and if I have a synapse with an average of 10k damage per second, I would like a boss to die earlier then when somebody with a 3k dps weapon shoots him.

 

So, how do we address this problem now?

 

I would suggest that each boss only gets a percentage of the normal damage instead of being invincible, that would give players with good weapons the chance to cause serious damage while newer players would still have to strugle a bit. Also, damage caps are not fun, Lephantis might be an epic boss, but I dont understand why my Flux Rifle doesnt cut its heads off like it does with heavily armored grineer. Because, lets be honest, a longer boss fight -especially if the lenght has been increased artificially- does not mean that it is challenging or fun in any way.

 

Short: invincibility and damage caps is not the way to make bosses cool, its annoying.

 

Please mind that this is all a subjective view, and some of you might also find boss fights with damage caps and invincibility phases fun, I do not.

 

So, thats it already, any opinions or improvements to my idea?

 

[Azira]

Taking away power already imparted to the player is almost never a good game design decision.

[Archfiendrai]

Agreed. On some bosses (Ruk) I thought it was alright, but with Lephantis it just pissed me off. Especially since the Ancient Infested has an easily accessed pink spot even when it's hood is closed and yet you can only damage it sometimes.

[MagnumX]

I feel like I am seeing this more and more recently, and while I agree as a player with max ranked damage mods it is a little sad that you can't burn them down in a few seconds, we DO have an advantage over less geared players, you go through their health phases faster, all it limits you from doing is killing it within the first ten seconds.

 

I really payed attention to this fighting Raptor with my newly created synapse fired through volt's shield. When I didn't have the right angle to get the red crits, the fight took maybe a minute and a half at least, when I did get the crits, maybe twenty, the point is invincibility periods only serve to make sure a boss is not just a big enemy who drops BP, and i'm fine with that, the alternative would be like those low levels infested exterminate missions where it is like one toxic ancient, a joke you can just rinse through.

[Azira]

I feel like I am seeing this more and more recently, and while I agree as a player with max ranked damage mods it is a little sad that you can't burn them down in a few seconds, we DO have an advantage over less geared players, you go through their health phases faster, all it limits you from doing is killing it within the first ten seconds.

 

I really payed attention to this fighting Raptor with my newly created synapse fired through volt's shield. When I didn't have the right angle to get the red crits, the fight took maybe a minute and a half at least, when I did get the crits, maybe twenty, the point is invincibility periods only serve to make sure a boss is not just a big enemy who drops BP, and i'm fine with that, the alternative would be like those low levels infested exterminate missions where it is like one toxic ancient, a joke you can just rinse through.

The problem is that if the boss doesn't offer mechanics that challenge the skill of the player, then it basically IS nothing but a big enemy with some extra survivability tacked on. Bosses need to give players something to dodge, test their reaction times, or anything else that requires more than the left mouse button.

[Aure7]

The problem is that if the boss doesn't offer mechanics that challenge the skill of the player, then it basically IS nothing but a big enemy with some extra survivability tacked on. Bosses need to give players something to dodge, test their reaction times, or anything else that requires more than the left mouse button.

Stalker?

[Azira]

Stalker?

Stalker is even worse because his mechanics, instead of just being a boring way of extending the life of a lancer or something, actually invalidate player decisions. He cancels abilities, punishing those who try to use them, and does ridiculously high amounts of damage relative to his level that doesn't really give you much opportunity to dodge. Stalker is basically a gear check who frustrates players by giving them less agency.

[Genoscythe]

Yes, this game has actually no challenge. Instead we get stunlocks or all out abilities taken away, reaction time, tactic and skill are not to be used, we only need brute force.

[Xylia]

The only way to fix this is to...

 

1). Make every boss a bullet sponge with ridiculous health. DE tried that with earlier bosses and people complained about it (rightly so, that's just as annoying if not worse).

 

2). Let everybody one-shot bosses with overpowered gear. People complained about this too, rightly so.

 

3). Make the bosses so overpowered that you have to have maxed junk to kill them.

 

4). Use Damage Caps that make you actually pay attention to what the boss is doing, and to use actual tactics and create a fight where you don't just gun it to death.

 

Personally I'll take #4 kthx.

[Genoscythe]

The only way to fix this is to...

 

1). Make every boss a bullet sponge with ridiculous health. DE tried that with earlier bosses and people complained about it (rightly so, that's just as annoying if not worse).

 

2). Let everybody one-shot bosses with overpowered gear. People complained about this too, rightly so.

 

3). Make the bosses so overpowered that you have to have maxed junk to kill them.

 

4). Use Damage Caps that make you actually pay attention to what the boss is doing, and to use actual tactics and create a fight where you don't just gun it to death.

 

Personally I'll take #4 kthx.

 

You dotn need damage caps, you just need a good boss design with good attacks that actually make you pay attention. There are a million other games that make good bossfights without any damage caps.

Edited November 23, 2013 by Genoscythe

[fatpig84]

The only way to fix this is to...

 

1). Make every boss a bullet sponge with ridiculous health. DE tried that with earlier bosses and people complained about it (rightly so, that's just as annoying if not worse).

 

2). Let everybody one-shot bosses with overpowered gear. People complained about this too, rightly so.

 

3). Make the bosses so overpowered that you have to have maxed junk to kill them.

 

4). Use Damage Caps that make you actually pay attention to what the boss is doing, and to use actual tactics and create a fight where you don't just gun it to death.

 

Personally I'll take #4 kthx.

 

Finally something I can agree with.

[Xylia]

You dotn need damage caps, you just need a good boss design with good attacks that actually make you pay attention. There are a million other games that make good bossfights without any damage caps.

 

Without damage caps, you're always going to get that guy with the maxed Vectis who can drop the boss in one shot.

 

Unless of course you make him a bullet sponge.

 

Doesn't matter what kind of attacks the boss throws at you if the boss never has TIME to throw them at you. Without damage caps/invincibility phases, nothing lives long enough to be called a "boss" in Warframe.

 

EDIT: At least Ruk's damage caps make sense -- you're blowing up pieces of his armor, rather than hurting the guy himself.

Edited November 23, 2013 by Xylia

[fatpig84]

You dotn need damage caps, you just need a good boss design with good attack that actually make you pay attention. There are a million other games that make good bossfights without any damage caps.

 

You know early on people whine incessantly about bosses with 1 hit kill mechanics like Hyena, Jackal, Phorid and most recently stalker.

 

Hyena was the PRIME EXAMPLE of a gear check boss as well.

Either you do enough damage to break his shield regen or you roll over and die.

 

Jackal was a boss with the weak spot issue, he was among the first boss with a damage cap.  

You cannot do more than X damage until you damage his limbs again.

Although sometimes you can kill him too quickly before the DPS check can kick in.

But then a check is still a check.

 

Phorid is straight up a gear check as well.

If you can get close and you have the requisite cold damage mod, you can slash/shoot him to death.

If you don't have the freeze mod, the fight becomes considerably harder unless you cheese it with Loki or Ash.

Because staying at range makes you get one shotted by his Psychic bolts.

 

 

Stalker is basically a bullet sponge with extreme damage.

So not necessary a gear check, but having good gear makes him a lot easier for sure.

 

 

So believe me, DE already tried these ideas.

Edited November 23, 2013 by fatpig84

[Genoscythe]

No, we could just use a boss that actually challenged endgame players, its not an argument that you can one-hit low grade bosses with maxed weapons. If i have maxed equipment but all bosses are made for newer players its no wonder that they die so fast, damage caps wont change anything as the bosses do no serious damage for high-def setups.