Sevagoth - new augment suggestion

[Cerikus]

Let me preface this by reminding everyone that these augemnts exist:
https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Controlled_Slide
https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Ironclad_Flight

Can we get one for Sevagoth that would disable his passive?

I have been quite enjoying Sevagoth with his new augment, but the passive is bad.
In case I get downed I would prefer to revive myself with Last Gasp, but it's disabled because of the passive.

Please.

The best solution would be an exilus augment that just says: "Disables Sevagoth's passive."

EDIT:
Just to confirm how awful this passive is, I just found out that the timer is entirely based on bleedout time. I made the mistake of wanting to play Sevagoth in Archon hunt and obviously that meant failure. DE, can you do something about the passive, it's actively ruining Sevagoth.

[quxier]

Or just options

[Fred_Avant_2019]

If you do that for Sevagoth, you have to do it for Inaros.

Inaros's reviving method is even worse than Sevagoth.

 

I'm fine with either Augment mods or just options.

[Cerikus]

17 hours ago, quxier said:

Or just options

I am strongly against the idea that functionality for warframes should be in options. First of all it takes more devtime, which I don't want them to lose on QoL for Sevagoth and second, the options are getting pretty bloated and stuff like that shouldn't be "hidden" in options. I am already unhappy about hold/tap abilities menu being hidden in options.

9 hours ago, Fred_Avant_2019 said:

Inaros's reviving method is even worse than Sevagoth.

Fair point, however Inaros is not a good Warframe, so I don't care.

[quxier]

5 hours ago, Cerikus said:

22 hours ago, quxier said:

Or just options

I am strongly against the idea that functionality for warframes should be in options. First of all it takes more devtime, which I don't want them to lose on QoL for Sevagoth

Ok, explain me how putting an option takes much more time than mod? Option is just "put option X in section Y" and done. Mod require image, another stat (mentioned by you e.g ironclad flight), drain, polarity and probably something else.

5 hours ago, Cerikus said:

the options are getting pretty bloated and stuff like that shouldn't be "hidden" in options. I am already unhappy about hold/tap abilities menu being hidden in options.

Options are bloated? There IS search engine, and categories (tabs like graphics). What's the problem typing something in it?

Oh so you want all in mod section? 1 for tap/hold, potentially more for some frames, sev/inaros having 'reviver disabler'... and probably more. You would en with bare frame if you are going to put everything as mod.

[Cerikus]

2 hours ago, quxier said:

Ok, explain me how putting an option takes much more time than mod? Option is just "put option X in section Y" and done.

Programming 101. I don't want to claim that I have any idea how Warframe is put together, but programming is never "just put option X in section Y".

Equiped mods are already an entity that modifies your warframe (the functionality is already there, you need to code "what" it does, but the game already knows how to handle it in-game) Putting frame specific settings elsewhere would mean the game has to check for equiped Sevagoth/Inaros and look for it in the options. Don't forget that options are not the game code itself, but it's rather a "options.txt" stored somewhere on your PC/console.

2 hours ago, quxier said:

There IS search engine, and categories (tabs like graphics). What's the problem typing something in it?

Can you explain to me how does a search engine help me to find "invert tap/hold abilities", if I don't know it exists? When I say bloated I mean there are great functions in there that should be somewhere more visible.

2 hours ago, quxier said:

Oh so you want all in mod section?

No. I would put menu for modifing how abilities behave in, I dunno, the abilities screen?

[quxier]

1 hour ago, Cerikus said:

3 hours ago, quxier said:

Ok, explain me how putting an option takes much more time than mod? Option is just "put option X in section Y" and done.

Programming 101. I don't want to claim that I have any idea how Warframe is put together, but programming is never "just put option X in section Y".

Sure, but I don't want to talk about details here - most of us probably don't know it.

1 hour ago, Cerikus said:

Equiped mods are already an entity that modifies your warframe (the functionality is already there, you need to code "what" it does, but the game already knows how to handle it in-game) Putting frame specific settings elsewhere would mean the game has to check for equiped Sevagoth/Inaros and look for it in the options. Don't forget that options are not the game code itself, but it's rather a "options.txt" stored somewhere on your PC/console.

Ok, so game need to check for frame X in the options and execute something. Well, they have it already with tap/hold. They probably have some "shortcuts" as they would have to code it everytime we have another tap/hold frame.

1 hour ago, Cerikus said:

3 hours ago, quxier said:

There IS search engine, and categories (tabs like graphics). What's the problem typing something in it?

Can you explain to me how does a search engine help me to find "invert tap/hold abilities", if I don't know it exists? When I say bloated I mean there are great functions in there that should be somewhere more visible.

And where do you put it? in the mod section as mod? That might be slightly better but mod section has already many mods. It's already "hard" to look for something unusual.

... and you said something but I'm not going to remove above text:

1 hour ago, Cerikus said:

4 hours ago, quxier said:

Oh so you want all in mod section?

No. I would put menu for modifing how abilities behave in, I dunno, the abilities screen?

Sadly, not sure if it's intentional, they are making ability screen concise. Before the update you could see next level of ability & its stats (afair). Now it's gone.

Sure, ability screen could get some "options" like passive turn off (globally or just specific frames), abilities tap/hold (ability not frame based) etc.

[Cerikus]

3 minutes ago, quxier said:

Sure, but I don't want to talk about details here

Why talk about it at all then? I don't like vague arguments.

4 minutes ago, quxier said:

Well, they have it already with tap/hold.

Tap/hold menu has nothing to do with frame functionality. All it does is to change how keyboard input is handled. It only "reads" what frame you have equiped, but doesn't affect or change the functionality itself. Sevagoth/Inaros change would mean the game would have to directly change warframe passive ability after it reads what warframe you have equiped during gameplay. Nothing similar to that is currently in game options and that's how it should stay.

12 minutes ago, quxier said:

Sadly, not sure if it's intentional, they are making ability screen concise. Before the update you could see next level of ability & its stats (afair). Now it's gone.

Imho the ability screen rework few years back was very disappointing. I don't think the old one was better, but the current one is not great. I don't like that I have to hover over everything. I don't like that you have to click through tips with Tab. Basically the screen is a huge waste of time and it has 0 useful functionality. All I need to know about abilities I can already find out in the modding section.

18 minutes ago, quxier said:

Sure, ability screen could get some "options" like passive turn off (globally or just specific frames), abilities tap/hold (ability not frame based) etc.

Exactly.

[quxier]

7 hours ago, Cerikus said:

8 hours ago, quxier said:

Well, they have it already with tap/hold.

Tap/hold menu has nothing to do with frame functionality. All it does is to change how keyboard input is handled. It only "reads" what frame you have equiped, but doesn't affect or change the functionality itself. Sevagoth/Inaros change would mean the game would have to directly change warframe passive ability after it reads what warframe you have equiped during gameplay. Nothing similar to that is currently in game options and that's how it should stay.

It's still reads frame (as you noted) and do something ("change how keyboard input is handled"). If your "handler" is in game's mission like this:

> player press key

> the Handler translate keys to some actiosn (e.g. press 1 > cast 1st ability)

Then I don't see it couldn't do "press X > do nothing". It's not too far from at start of the game "passive: void" (in simple terms).

 

[Cerikus]

6 hours ago, quxier said:

It's still reads frame (as you noted) and do something ("change how keyboard input is handled"). If your "handler" is in game's mission like this:

> player press key

> the Handler translate keys to some actiosn (e.g. press 1 > cast 1st ability)

Then I don't see it couldn't do "press X > do nothing". It's not too far from at start of the game "passive: void" (in simple terms).

 

Imagine the difference as Hotfix vs. Cert build.

The way the button press is handled is something that happens outside of the game's engine. 
Disabling warframe's passive is a change in the code. Disabling passive is similar to subsuming ability or applying augment.

[quxier]

5 hours ago, Cerikus said:

The way the button press is handled is something that happens outside of the game's engine. 

You mean that external program or OS handles it? Partially. For example certain (not sure if all most common) OS handles key repetition (e.g. you hold key and after N seconds it starts "pressing key").

"key handler" (more than simple key configs) is probably on different level than 'disabling passives & co' but it should still be in game engine.

[Cerikus]

4 minutes ago, quxier said:

You mean that external program or OS handles it?

*sigh* No, I don't.

I feel like we are wasting time debating this. I made my point. Either get what I mean or don't.

[CrownOfShadows]

On 2023-08-27 at 11:22 AM, Cerikus said:

Let me preface this by reminding everyone that these augemnts exist:
https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Controlled_Slide
https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Ironclad_Flight

Can we get one for Sevagoth that would disable his passive?

I have been quite enjoying Sevagoth with his new augment, but the passive is bad.
In case I get downed I would prefer to revive myself with Last Gasp, but it's disabled because of the passive.

Please.

The best solution would be an exilus augment that just says: "Disables Sevagoth's passive."

OR, better yet, buff his passive so that it's just as good or better than last gasp. For starters, make the passive shadow the same as the regular shadow -_-

[Cerikus]

1 minute ago, CrownOfShadows said:

OR, better yet, buff his passive so that it's just as good or better than last gasp. For starters, make the passive shadow the same as the regular shadow -_-

Sure, of course that would be much better, but if we look at the history of changes like these, it's usually much easier to convice DE to do something like passive disabling augment, than changing how a warframe works. (It was one specific person who wanted the titania augment and we got it.)

[Cerikus]

On 2023-08-27 at 6:22 PM, Cerikus said:

EDIT:
Just to confirm how awful this passive is, I just found out that the timer is entirely based on bleedout time. I made the mistake of wanting to play Sevagoth in Archon hunt and obviously that meant failure. DE, can you do something about the passive, it's actively ruining Sevagoth.

What this basically means is that your default equipment (Operator with last gasp) gets actively worse when you opt into using Sevagoth.

Why would I at that point play Sevagoth? Yes, he is cool and powerful, but his passive is OBJECTIVELY a downgrade of basic functionality.

Do something about it, please.