Latron Incarnon needs a tweak to be consistent with the usability of other AoE weapons

[Cross667]

I'll start by saying that I am suggesting this change based on my understanding of DE's reasons for adding self-stagger and knockdown to AoE weapons. As I understand it, self-stagger was added to discourage spamming AoE weapons within a close distance and make you think a bit more about aiming and positioning, as well as curtailing afk builds. I do not believe that the Latron Incarnon Form is consistent with this design intention. As it stands, firing towards the opposite side of the room or down a hallway results in a high chance of the projectile bouncing back towards you and inflicting stagger and/or knockdown effects, sometimes multiple times in quick succession. It appears to me that this conflicts with the points I mentioned already, as once the projectile is fired, players no longer have control over it.

Let me be clear, I do not necessarily have a problem with self-stagger by itself, it is what it is. As long as I pay a modicum of attention to my firing trajectory, it's mostly avoidable. But the Latron Incarnon bypasses that, adding the punishment even when you do fire the projectile far enough away that the initial hit does not affect you. It bounces and does not follow a predictable path, coming back towards you or even intercepting you during movement.

My suggestion for a tweak to the Incarnon mode would bring it more in line with the design of other AoE weapons: after the first bounce, the explosions on subsequent bounces do not inflict stagger/knockdown effects. This preserves the impact of checking aim, positioning, and being mindful of spam while respecting that players do not have control over a randomly bouncing object that unnecessarily impedes movement and ability use.

[Fred_Avant_2019]

Funny how because it's a rifle it can get access to cautious shot.

Even funnier, cautious shot goes into exilus slot.

Funniest thing? Latron Incarnon has no use for any exilus mod. Aside from this one if you're not running Primed Sure Footed or normal one with that one other mod they buffed to reach 100% kb resist without PSF.

 

Power comes at a price, which is basically just a modslot or two in worst case scenario.

 

Also if you think this is unpredictable stagger, you ain't fired a Trumna alt fire in tight spaces.

[(PSN)haphazardlynamed]

6 hours ago, Cross667 said:

I'll start by saying that I am suggesting this change based on my understanding of DE's reasons for adding self-stagger and knockdown to AoE weapons. As I understand it, self-stagger was added to discourage spamming AoE weapons within a close distance and make you think a bit more about aiming and positioning, as well as curtailing afk builds. I do not believe that the Latron Incarnon Form is consistent with this design intention. As it stands, firing towards the opposite side of the room or down a hallway results in a high chance of the projectile bouncing back towards you and inflicting stagger and/or knockdown effects, sometimes multiple times in quick succession. It appears to me that this conflicts with the points I mentioned already, as once the projectile is fired, players no longer have control over it.

Let me be clear, I do not necessarily have a problem with self-stagger by itself, it is what it is. As long as I pay a modicum of attention to my firing trajectory, it's mostly avoidable. But the Latron Incarnon bypasses that, adding the punishment even when you do fire the projectile far enough away that the initial hit does not affect you. It bounces and does not follow a predictable path, coming back towards you or even intercepting you during movement.

My suggestion for a tweak to the Incarnon mode would bring it more in line with the design of other AoE weapons: after the first bounce, the explosions on subsequent bounces do not inflict stagger/knockdown effects. This preserves the impact of checking aim, positioning, and being mindful of spam while respecting that players do not have control over a randomly bouncing object that unnecessarily impedes movement and ability use.

 

Sounds fair

didn't the old Kulstar once have a similar mechanism for the same reason?

where the initial explosion would do self-damage, but not the bouncing cluster bomblets (because they were too unpredictable to be fair)?

(or maybe that was the zarr?, well it was def one of those... back in the days of self damage)

 

and anything to reduce reliance on PSF is a good thing.

Edited October 21, 2023 by (PSN)haphazardlynamed

[Cross667]

On 2023-10-20 at 8:14 PM, Fred_Avant_2019 said:

Funny how because it's a rifle it can get access to cautious shot.

Even funnier, cautious shot goes into exilus slot.

Funniest thing? Latron Incarnon has no use for any exilus mod. Aside from this one if you're not running Primed Sure Footed or normal one with that one other mod they buffed to reach 100% kb resist without PSF.

 

Power comes at a price, which is basically just a modslot or two in worst case scenario.

 

Also if you think this is unpredictable stagger, you ain't fired a Trumna alt fire in tight spaces.

Did you read my post? I mean like actually read it, not just skim it and then mock me based on whatever strawman you concocted. The point I'm making is that as it stands, the Latron Incarnon is inconsistent with other AoE weapon's knockback effects. All I'm suggesting is a tweak to bring it in line with the others.

I do have PSF, and I use it on many frames. However, I've a few builds where I use a different exilus mod like Preparation. On those builds, I either use weapons that don't stagger me or ones that I can use well enough to not be in range of the stagger effect.

"Power comes at a price" Lmao guns can be powerful why still being user friendly, Latron is good but far from the most powerful weapon I own.

I regularly use the Kuva Tonkor without PSF with no issue, keep in mind please that my entire point is that the Latron projectile has an unpredictable trajectory that is outside the users control.

May I also recommend not firing the Trumna alt-fire in tight spaces ;)

[Fred_Avant_2019]

Le 23/10/2023 à 02:49, Cross667 a dit :

Did you read my post? I mean like actually read it, not just skim it and then mock me based on whatever strawman you concocted. The point I'm making is that as it stands, the Latron Incarnon is inconsistent with other AoE weapon's knockback effects. All I'm suggesting is a tweak to bring it in line with the others.

Fancy new way to defend your pride, but boring at the end of the day. I'm just trying to point out obvious solutions that you would use for any other weapon.

Le 23/10/2023 à 02:49, Cross667 a dit :

"Power comes at a price" Lmao guns can be powerful why still being user friendly, Latron is good but far from the most powerful weapon I own.

Yes it does come at a price, that's just a fact. Everything was made user friendly when they removed self damage and removed arm time on akarius tonkor and kuva ayanga, as you were going to use PSF regardless due to the size of the AoE. You can't do anything about Akarius or Ayanga self stagger without PSF / equivalents, but at least primaries do have Cautious Shot. You really only have yourself to blame for not using that exilus slot on your Latron.

Also real talk, if the Latron isn't your most powerful weapon, there are several other levels of magnitude of wrong in your Arsenal.

Le 23/10/2023 à 02:49, Cross667 a dit :

May I also recommend not firing the Trumna alt-fire in tight spaces ;)

No worries mate, I use anti-self stagger when I do! :) Like I suggested you would so that you don't have to cry on the forum about a weapon design that's fine and whose sole drawback can be avoided with mods. :)