Levelling Grendel Prime made me realized that I miss Grendel's old Pulverize more than I thought

[3mptylord]

I have drafted several versions of this thread. But every version that wasn't just an emotional plea felt disingenuous. 

• Grendel
  • Pulverise
    • Enemy Level multiplier removed. 
    • Maximum gut-contents contribution reduced to 5 enemies from 10 enemies.
      • Damage at max stacks reduced to 2,000 from (4000 x Enemy Level Multiplier).

My boy used to deal Grasp of Lohk-tier damage but via collision physics (instead of whatever you'd call Xaku's thing-- a turret-halo?).

I used to play Grendel when I fancied spending 20 minutes being a Meatball of Death. Grendel used to be one of my happy places, alongside One Punch Atlas or Navigator Ivara.

But now? Even when fully stripped of armor using its own or Regurgitate's armor reduction: Steel Path enemies just do not care about Pulverize's damage. I can be rag-dolling the same red-health bar Grineer for what feels like an eternity before I hear the death's blissful scream. 

...and as I was levelling Grendel Prime for mastery, I learned that Pulverize even struggles to kill Elite Sanctuary Onslaught tier enemies. It hurts, man. It really hurts. It hurts to watch a YouTube guide or pull-up a build on Overframe and to be told that Pulverize is his "free ability slot".

Grendel doesn't need damage on his Pulverize to make him good. I know that he was unpopular. I know that most of his abilities were clunky and unwieldly. I know most of his old build videos were optimizing around his Shotgun Belly Expulsion. I cannot make a case that re-instating Pulverize's damage is necessary for Grendel. Grendel is a great Warframe. His rework did a brilliant job of making him a very competent Weapon Platform with his various offensive buffs, innate durability, healing and armor strip. But does it have to be one or the other? Is there room for my Pulverize Happy Place still exist alongside Weapon Platform Grendel? As mentioned above, modern builds seem to remove his Pulverize anyway - so having both doesn't seem like it would contribute to balance issues. 

P.S. I vaguely recall a Dev saying they reduced the damage of Pulverize to compensate for the added armor strip - so know that I'd personally be completely happy to trade it back. You gave him Armor Strip on his Regurgitate too, he doesn't need two sources (and I used to replace his Regurgitate with one on my Endurance build anyway). 

[3mptylord]

I created this chart for a previous draft where I tried to be more persuasive. 

Since you can scarcely even see the new damage values on the graph: the current maximum damage with 300% strength (6000) intersects with the old minimum damage with 100% strength at enemy level 110. From level 111 onwards, you used to deal more damage with an unmodded empty stomach than you do now with mods and a full stomach. 

But, again, I don't have an argument to justify why Grendel deserves this amount of damage. He doesn't. He doesn't deserve it any more than any other ability-based Warframe (ergo, I could make a good-faith argument that all Warframes deserve to scale with enemy level but not Grendel specifically). However, the difference with Grendel is that he used to have access to this damage. I still have fond memories of barrelling down a corridor turning enemies into strawberry jam. I long for a time when there was a Warframe I could choose when I wanted to live out the fantasy of being the boulder in Indiana Jones. 

Edited October 25, 2023 by 3mptylord

[Raarsi]

Maybe they could give it an escalating damage buff the more you roll around with it.

Alternatively, they did make it easier to use for extended periods.  It also proves that I seem to be having the most fun in the game when I'm doing absolutely nothing useful, especially when someone brings a max strength Volt or Wisp and suddenly I'm playing 4D pinball.

[3mptylord]

1 hour ago, Raarsi said:

Maybe they could give it an escalating damage buff the more you roll around with it.

One of the Pulverize builds I found for new Grendel recommended Aqua Blades, which provides an accumulating damage buff. The added damage certainly helps versus level 60 enemies in ESO and it's how I got myself through the mastery process - but it doesn't provide sufficient damage to go much further than that. All this to say: I'm sceptical about such a solution helping me get back to my happy place unless they really go to town on the multiplier, since +10% per collision isn't enough to make Aqua Blades feel good at high level.

1 hour ago, Raarsi said:

Alternatively, they did make it easier to use for extended periods.  It also proves that I seem to be having the most fun in the game when I'm doing absolutely nothing useful, especially when someone brings a max strength Volt or Wisp and suddenly I'm playing 4D pinball.

He's certainly got more build flexibility now that you don't need a build dedicated to solving his energy costs - so I would understand that his old numbers might still need adjusting downward to account for the increased build freedom. I don't know if I'd describe modding for energy economy as "difficult", though. I'm pretty certain my old Grendel build was very similar to Mesa with a stat priority of Duration/Efficiency > Strength > Range. Economy is just how some Warframes are built. It is worth noting that Strength Mods also affect his digestion damage - so the amount you need to micro-manage his stomach actually goes up with higher strength, which I would probably describe as "more difficult".

Alas, I wish that I could get enjoyment just from bouncing around like I'm playing pinball. I feel bad when I cannot contribute damage. But there's genuinely no shame if you do enjoy bouncing around the Grineer pinball machine - just imagine how much more fun you would have had back when every Grineer inside that pinball machine used to die when you hit them. 

EDIT: Actually you don't need to imagine it - it still works on the standard Star Chart.

Edited October 25, 2023 by 3mptylord

[Picho]

I love Grendel but yea his Pulverize the only good thing I see right now is armor stripping for others in the squad to kill :/