A Complete Rework Of The Foundation Of Warframe.

[theGreatZamboni]

 

theGreatZamboni

 

I like that you are offering solutions and not just crying like most ppl on the forum and for that you have my congratiolations. 

The current mod system is indeed unbalanced or at least not fine tunned . But taking it away is not the best choice. 

You have to understand that each game has its unique factor that makes it interesting. It has a very very important role. + Having the same elements as in other games will make it boring very soon. Taking a skill tree while it also has advantages it has disadvantages as well, dont think its foolproof. Furthermore its  similar to LOL (league of legends) even the colors. Its and interesting solution but overly used in many games adding no flavor or originality to Warframe.

 

About ability and weapons , have to give you the categories are good but the only problem weapons have is that since the huge diversity in mods " maximization " is possible. Making some weapons over the top . What your suggesting is limmiting the weapons and that takes away form the freedom . 

 

Also Melee is viable , even if it dose not have combos. This is not DMC

I find it very easy and in some missions prefer it above everything else. If its your point of view dont make it out to be everyones. Also stances are not new , and only complicate the game more. Warframes are in the prime light here , with their abilitys not the fight styles like in DMC. If you have ideas like stances it should bring out the unique element of the warframe not be universal to be used by all warframes. 

 

ALSO . Warframe tries to be original in its own way, while fans like you want to take 10 different games that have cool features and dump them into warframe . Sooner or later a new game will come out and you again will want to dump it in warframe in the idea of having a "complete" game/ experience. It cannot go like this and would lead to its death of worse, things like other companys to sue . Rather then a chimera it should remain original.

 

Further more some notes are just for your own point of view, with the consideration that others might feel the same way, wake up dude, we are individuals , not every dose, and that lack of an open mind, if you wish, leads to problems. 

Sure there are good ideas in what you wrote , but there are bad ones as well.  So far the only idea i liked was the combos for melee since it may have potential, and nothing more related to melee. 

 

If they change it like you made above i doubt it i will play anymore. Fix problems sure but change it like that nope. 

Since when do Fans know what the DE dont know about the games intended purposes ? 

 

Dont take a privelege like DE reading your ideas in a cunstroctive fashion and mix it up with telling them how they should make their game and do their job. Its disrespectful beyond suggestions.

 

 

I'm going to go ahead and assume you didn't read the OP. There is not a single truth to your post. Your post is the epitome of what has been wrong with people's critiques thus far. I highly suggest re-reading the OP. If you would like to know why your post is such a fantastic showcase of misrepresentation or lack of reading comprehension, let me know. I can spell it out for you. I don't mind doing it, it just I have done it some many times already for other people that it has become very tedious.

Edited December 11, 2013 by theGreatZamboni

[Draglide]

After reading the main post something came into my mind and I want to share that idea.
Since reading through 27 pages of text is time-consuming, if any of these ideas were already mentioned please accept my apologies.

 

You want to eliminate mods completely so that the main reason for playing is experimenting, not farming. While this idea is divine, the downside is that it can be easier said than done. There are many people who would get tired of no actual "reward" (other than more points to spend due to leveling equipment) from doing missions.

 

While focusing on gameplay rather than drops is a good thing, but drops should not be cast in the background. My idea is:

 

Make players get a certain ranking at the end of the mission based on their performance.  This consists of  killing enemies, executing melee combos, finishing the mission without being detected,  and so on.

 

Then   make every NODE   (not mission type, node )  have a given set of weapon blueprints/parts, addons as END  MISSION rewards,  which are based on performance. This would 

 

-Eliminate rushing through missions an eligible way of completing a mission/progress since it would result in lowest rank achieved

-Would maintain some farming elements but not too much to cause frustration

-Make the starmap more diverse

 

since now when someone reaches endgame, the 200 something nodes become utterly useless. Most of the people play only 20-30 of them "There to get neurodes" "There to get money by rushing through deception" etc. This method would render each and every node useful in a way that each would have replay value and I'm not saying replay it 100 times, think of for example Terminus having 3 weapon components, and an addon for assault rifles to be given as reward. 4 possible drops, easily gettable without frustration, while maintaining something of the so-beloved RNG DE loves so much.

 

Then reduce market-obtainable weapons to a bare minimum, keeping mostly Tenno-originated weaponry (some could also be scattered around nodes eg: salvaging lost technology, or a rescue target reveals blueprint, dunno...) so that the node-reward idea is more rewarding. With all the weapons available, DE could easily fill each and every node with 2-4 weapon parts/addon parts so that each has its purpose.

 

Performance ranking system should give weapon/addon blueprints as rewards like Void missions does. Each of the 2-4 end-game rewards would be sorted into tiers: common, uncommon, rare, and ranking would influence the drops of rarer parts to drop at a higher rate, while average performance could still reward rare drops, but with less chance. This way:
-Players would be encouraged to try out new builds and combos to achieve higher endgame rating and obtain weapon parts/addons more easily,

-But would not make people with less skill frustrated because of the chance to get those rewards regardless.

 

As one last thing I'd refer to the result of a study: If there are too many choices to choose from, the brain may refuse to chose any. While the ability of customization is an essential thing, exaggeration should be avoided.

 

Since English is not my native language, I apologize for any grammatical mistakes I made, and I hope there will be no problem in understanding due to errors.

 

Draglide, out.

[chimp77]

[snip]

 

As I understand it, the OP is suggesting that leveling weapons be their own reward. Currently, a brand new weapon or warframe is utterly useless. With the OP's proposed system, everything would be effective and fun to use right out of the gate, and leveling it would simply allow more customization. This customization through leveling provides incentive for new players to play with new weapons and experienced players to go back and experiment with different playstyles without having to risk leaving behind a "crucial" upgrade like serration.

 

If you create a solid foundation in these 3 systems, you can design enemies and content around them, everything else will fall into place.

 

I think this pretty much sums up the OP's stance on your concerns. The content is bland currently because it is designed around a bland system. The OP suggests that if the system were refined, the devs could focus on more engaging content based around the new system, meaning players will want to play for the experience and not the trinket at the end of the mission.

 

Personally I feel that holding a trinket in front of my face to get me to play is not inherently bad, but it is certainly not preferable or sustainable. How long before many players like myself get tired of collecting worthless frames and weapons and mods for no reason. Leveling them isn't fun or rewarding. Mastery is worthless. If DE added rewards (skill based or not) to each node as you suggest, then everyone will play those nodes just enough to get the reward and then never play them again. It only stalls the issue without addressing it as the OP has.

Edited December 11, 2013 by chimp77

[tmtke]

@theGreatZamboni: You wrote your post, refined it but you doesn't take critiques well. It seems like while you are bashing DE devs for being so conservative about changing anything, you are far worse in this regard.

Nobody told here that your ideas are utterly wrong, most of the critics told that this is a too big change to make, and even if it's done, lot of players will be gone, because it will be a totally different game.

The other most rephrased thing was that it won't solve basic gameplay problems, it's just a new inventory/skill system. If you can show a working conversion example (how my xx weapon will look like), a lot of things can be seen better. Because with ideas only, and stating that everything will fall in place, it's just fantasy.

Show us, critics, something like a working Vauban with stats and skill tree and so on, and make us your follower Tennos. Until then it's just a well marketed ranting.

[chimp77]

...most of the critics told that this is a too big change to make, and even if it's done, lot of players will be gone, because it will be a totally different game...

Adding the mod system in the first place was a huge undertaking I would imagine. DE is open to big changes so I don't see how "too big change" is a criticism. Also, this is a beta; players shouldn't be so invested that they forget this. Would anyone really want the game to remain static for the rest of time? What about when they removed the old skill tree, or added damage 2.0? Why are those changes acceptable? Why wouldn't this one be?

 

The other most rephrased thing was that it won't solve basic gameplay problems, it's just a new inventory/skill system...

Anyone who read the OP will know that the point of the proposed system is to provide an alternative to RNG-based drop-hunting which is 95% of the gameplay of warframe in its current state. This isn't just a new inventory/skill system, it's a fresh starting point for DE to base more meaningful/fun content around.

I can't help but feel like these "criticisms" you're pointing out have no substance. I really recommend anyone who wants to criticize this post actually read it in its entirety. Don't skim it, don't just look at the pictures, actually read and comprehend it. You have a really good chance of finding the answers to your criticism in it.

Edited December 11, 2013 by chimp77

[tmtke]

Adding the mod system in the first place was a huge undertaking I would imagine. DE is open to big changes so I don't see how "too big change" is a criticism. Also, this is a beta; players shouldn't be so invested that they forget this. Would anyone really want the game to remain static for the rest of time? What about when they removed the old skill tree, or added damage 2.0? Why are those changes acceptable? Why wouldn't this one be?

I came after the mod system change, but I think that change was generally the same stuff rearranged. Correct me if I'm wrong, I'm not exactly sure. Damage 2.0 was also a reorganization, not a fundamental, everything is different refactoring. Some stuff is working a bit differently, and enemy levels are halved, but mostly the changes been kept under the hood. This is a rather good example of good design, where a change can be controlled on this level. OP here is suggesting a totally new game.

Anyone who read the OP will know that the point of the proposed system is to provide an alternative to RNG-based drop-hunting which is 95% of the gameplay of warframe in its current state. This isn't just a new inventory/skill system, it's a fresh starting point for DE to base more meaningful/fun content around.

This is where you are all wrong, because you don't have any proof that it would work as the OP has suggested. There is no such thing in development, any small, overlooked detail can cause terrible results. I know this from experience, I was in game development for 6 years, and in other rather similar dev areas for additional 8 years (and counting).

I can't help but feel like these "criticisms" you're pointing out have no substance. I really recommend anyone who wants to criticize this post actually read it in its entirety. Don't skim it, don't just look at the pictures, actually read and comprehend it. You have a really good chance of finding the answers to your criticism in it.

I have read it originally, and at least two times after that. I don't care about fancy graphics as I can do it as well. All I can say is: show. us. examples.

It would help a lot for tGZ also to point out those details to himself what can go wrong.

Edited December 11, 2013 by tmtke

[chimp77]

OP here is suggesting a totally new game.

 

I just have to ask: why is the fact that it's a totally new system make it inherently bad? Warframe is changing constantly, so why is this change not good? You keep failing to point out specifically why it's bad, only that it's different, therefore it's bad. My point: change =/= bad.

 

This is where you are all wrong, because you don't have any proof that it would work as the OP has suggested. There is no such thing in development, any small, overlooked detail can cause terrible results. I know this from experience, I was in game development for 6 years, and in other rather similar dev areas for additional 8 years (and counting).

 

The OP is a proof of concept, using examples from other games and tGZ's experience with warframe to support why it could be a great improvement over our current system. Nobody knows for sure if it will work or not, but we can argue our cases as to why it should or shouldn't exist. The OP has made his case, so where's yours? Why don't you prove that it won't work?

[Driftwood]

You've got some really great ideas and I'd love to see them implemented but there's a bit of a problem with your ideas: DE's already gone all in on the mod card system. They've offered mod cards for platinum and that means that if they change it now they'll have a riot on their hands. People who spent $100+ to get those nightmare mods with their platinum will be demanding their money back, and anyone who ever bought a mod pack/fusion core pack in the store is going to want a refund.

 

Furthermore, aren't you just shifting the focus from mod card drops to attachment drops? What happens to the mods we worked so hard to farm? Where do orokin reactors/catalysts, which probably have more platinum spent on them than any other item fit into your new system? Like I said, I like your ideas, but without ways to implement to generate revenue for the game they're not going to make it in

[chimp77]

[snip]

 

DE could reimburse everyone's total platinum that they purchased, or at least a portion of it. Also, I believe that the OP doesn't include reactors/catalysts/forma in the new system, though I'm sure DE could find some way to incorporate them into the system if they wanted to. I don't think that they necessarily belong and that it wouldn't matter if everyone's plat was refunded, but it could be adapted to the new system.

 

Perhaps catalysts could increase base stats or provide passive buffs? Forma could change slots (for example change an underbarrel slot into a core slot) or give extra "tree" points for frames? These are just basic ideas that may not be the most effective, but I think there is a way to transition peacefully and logically.

 

Also, the OP mentioned adding attachments to ClanTech and the market as a way to avoid RNG gripes and still allow a source of revenue generation. Also you would still be able to directly purchase weapons and frames if you wanted to. Not to mention slots and cosmetics being plat only would still generate a ton of revenue i'm sure.

Because attachments are crafted, it allows for more items to be added to ClanTech and the store. Encounter bosses or Alerts could drop blueprints for attachments. There would need to be a balance, as to avoid polluting the RNG again.

Edited December 12, 2013 by chimp77

[Driftwood]

Does this new system incorporate mods in any way? There's not really a way to refund the time I spent maxing out high-level mods like serration and redirection, has a solution been proposed for these problems? Perhaps the problem with mods is that more mods have to drop for them to level. Perhaps that could be remedied by having them level with xp. 

Like I said, I really like the ideas but it's such a radical shift that it could scare players away. With a small game like Warframe you could kill the whole thing if you up and change the whole thing overnight. If we can find the answers to these problems now there'd be a better chance of these ideas actually being incorporated in some form.

[chimp77]

Does this new system incorporate mods in any way? There's not really a way to refund the time I spent maxing out high-level mods like serration and redirection, has a solution been proposed for these problems? Perhaps the problem with mods is that more mods have to drop for them to level. Perhaps that could be remedied by having them level with xp. 

Like I said, I really like the ideas but it's such a radical shift that it could scare players away. With a small game like Warframe you could kill the whole thing if you up and change the whole thing overnight. If we can find the answers to these problems now there'd be a better chance of these ideas actually being incorporated in some form.

 

I would argue that it's a beta, and that players came into it knowing every aspect of the game is subject to change at all times and shouldn't complain that they've been robbed of their time when their time playing helped fuel the success of the game (and they presumably did it because they enjoyed it). That's just my opinion though.

 

In reality, DE is likely to see this and instead try to salvage their existing systems. I don't actually think a change this drastic will come any time soon, and I agree the last thing DE wants is to upset their players. If DE wants to change the system, they may do it more incrementally, but it's way more likely we'll get a modified version of the existing system rather than a completely new one (though I really wish this new system existed!).

 

In the end, I think DE should simply take away from this thread that some of us are unhappy with the current mod system. The proposed new system is nice, but it isn't the only solution (I could see tying certain mods to mastery/xp working). If anything DE could just take the main concepts behind the proposed system and apply them going forward rather than going backward and redoing everything. I would be content with that (assuming it is done well enough and addresses the same issues raised by the OP).

[InterrobangTF2]

op are you on adderall

[AyezRed]

This is an amazing post wow. I can't argue with any of the points proposed here. Make this man a systems designer.

[Driftwood]

I would argue that it's a beta, and that players came into it knowing every aspect of the game is subject to change at all times and shouldn't complain that they've been robbed of their time when their time playing helped fuel the success of the game (and they presumably did it because they enjoyed it). That's just my opinion though.

 

In reality, DE is likely to see this and instead try to salvage their existing systems. I don't actually think a change this drastic will come any time soon, and I agree the last thing DE wants is to upset their players. If DE wants to change the system, they may do it more incrementally, but it's way more likely we'll get a modified version of the existing system rather than a completely new one (though I really wish this new system existed!).

 

In the end, I think DE should simply take away from this thread that some of us are unhappy with the current mod system. The proposed new system is nice, but it isn't the only solution (I could see tying certain mods to mastery/xp working). If anything DE could just take the main concepts behind the proposed system and apply them going forward rather than going backward and redoing everything. I would be content with that (assuming it is done well enough and addresses the same issues raised by the OP).

Totally agree. People should play with the knowledge that the whole thing could change at any time, but unfortunately everyone makes a big deal about even balance changes to certain OP weapons. They're probably relying on income from players at this point so they don't have much choice to make any big changes very incrementally. 

[alocrius]

Warframe.  So many issues, so little dev feedback.  I really hope they break precedent this friday and drop some revelations about how they are going to eventually add some gameplay into this immaculate superstructure of grind we have..  I think everyone knows, deep down, that contested nodes sucks donkey balls and had better evolve quickly if it's ever going to be relevant.  At least we are reaching mass consensus that the game rationale is inherently flawed.  

[tmtke]

I just have to ask: why is the fact that it's a totally new system make it inherently bad? Warframe is changing constantly, so why is this change not good? You keep failing to point out specifically why it's bad, only that it's different, therefore it's bad. My point: change =/= bad.

 

You totally missed my point. Change is good, and it is needed.

 

The OP is a proof of concept, using examples from other games and tGZ's experience with warframe to support why it could be a great improvement over our current system. Nobody knows for sure if it will work or not, but we can argue our cases as to why it should or shouldn't exist. The OP has made his case, so where's yours? Why don't you prove that it won't work?

 

"Nobody knows for sure" - this is the problem. Depending on the development cost (not money, amount of work), the risk also changes. More changes, higher the risk. The OPs system is a "complete rework" and a "new foundation", which basically replaces the game mechanics, the UI, needs a huge amount of new content and so on, and can't be done step by step, when you want your update ready, all weapon parts, items should be in place. This needs a duplicate of the whole team, because for that time this been working on, the current system should be maintained.

 

If you read back in this thread, I have made my suggestions, I even created two different ones, they are linked on top of page 27 along with two other guy's really good ideas, where the rework/improvement is mostly reorganizing or using the actual system with some small modifications.

 

In any change request (it is the same inside DE most likely), the inventor of any of the new stuff should prove that his idea will work, and won't be unbalanced. Here, we, the critical ones made our points, but got ignored, in a much stubborn fashion than anyone among the DE guys. So it's not our take to prove that it will work, it's the OPs. How would he convince DE, that they should do a change like this, if he just talks about an ideal system without looking at the bottom of the things?

Edited December 12, 2013 by tmtke

[Parinirvana]

DE Please hire this guy!!!!

[Llyssa]

Massive wall of text, dripping with weird interpretations of the current game, an apparent lack of understanding of the current system, and a desire to revamp it for the sake of redirection.

 

As a bonus, the "new and improved" suggestion heavily nerfs the ability of players to customize their frame more than once, giving us a skill tree instead! Well, except for the ones that just heavily cut down on the customization of weapons.

 

The conclusions you draw from the things you suggest make no sense, and your support of why they need to be done are all "l2p" problems.

 

I don't see how this adds any value at all to the game. It's mainly a rework for the sake of having a rework, and little else.

[theGreatZamboni]

Massive wall of text, dripping with weird interpretations of the current game, an apparent lack of understanding of the current system, and a desire to revamp it for the sake of redirection.

 

As a bonus, the "new and improved" suggestion heavily nerfs the ability of players to customize their frame more than once, giving us a skill tree instead! Well, except for the ones that just heavily cut down on the customization of weapons.

 

The conclusions you draw from the things you suggest make no sense, and your support of why they need to be done are all "l2p" problems.

 

I don't see how this adds any value at all to the game. It's mainly a rework for the sake of having a rework, and little else.

 

Looks like someone again, didn't even bother to read.

[Llyssa]

Looks like someone again, didn't even bother to read.

Read a great deal of it, far more reading than it deserves.

 

The fact you still have it the way it is after as long as it's been posted suggests you haven't read it yourself. "Let's level-lock everything!" "There's no trade-offs in the mod system, let's have a system with trade-offs. The mod system is bad because it's all about trade-offs!"

 

Seriously. It is not appealing.

Edited December 12, 2013 by Llyssa

[theGreatZamboni]

Read a great deal of it, far more reading than it deserves.

 

The fact you still have it the way it is after as long as it's been posted suggests you haven't read it yourself. "Let's level-lock everything!" "There's no trade-offs in the mod system, let's have a system with trade-offs. The mod system is bad because it's all about trade-offs!"

 

Seriously. It is not appealing.

 

You are quite good at misrepresenting ideas.

[eStecko]

Wait... i thought Warframe is a card game. Now all my dreams of getting full collection are gone. :/

[Elestor]

I'm going to go ahead and assume you didn't read the OP. There is not a single truth to your post. Your post is the epitome of what has been wrong with people's critiques thus far. I highly suggest re-reading the OP. If you would like to know why your post is such a fantastic showcase of misrepresentation or lack of reading comprehension, let me know. I can spell it out for you. I don't mind doing it, it just I have done it some many times already for other people that it has become very tedious.

 

 

Indeed i have read your post , not to mention i saw a video on youtube that led me here to fully read it . But for the sake of reply i read it again.  

Offering to explain is kind of you but I have my own opinion as others have their own. 

Trying to persuade me to change my mind is a different story....

 

I find your take, and assumtions from individuals, that was the faundation for your post, to be wrong and/or one sided, while at the same i agree that there are problems that exists and i have congratulated you that you gave solutions as i did in my first post. 

I can easaly see the reasoning behind " scrap it " make a new one that is better, and as stated in my original post , i wouldent do that. 

Furthermore showcasing in that post some problems your ideas have. 

 

 

Problems you mentioned. 

- Exploiting as a result of "The problem being the gameplay in and of itself is not satisfying"

Agreed that ppl do this. I have my doubts on the exact value hence many dont preffer this because it takes away from the experience. Its not entirely true that ppl play only to rush or for drops. While rewards have always been a driving force for game. Many ppl i know hate rushers, and play to enjoy the game and its content not to mention find every little secret . 

Curiosity is also a driving force . 

Elements that lead to rushing can be tweaked and/or eliminated. Radical change is not necessary. 

 

- "Bad design" & "Until you create a foundation that is fun, adding to it will only exacerbate the issues and cause your project to cave on itself."

Ofc and its commonly known that without a good fundation everything will cave in. Its a general statement for everything. Yet its no excuse to throw it away and replace it when it can be fixed and fine tunned.

I dont know  what DE dose but i garantee you that this is a problem they seriously think about and struggle for good solutions. The fact that we dont know about it and are fed  "new weapons" "new mods" is just so the players can be "happy " and its a matter that is only on the surface. 

Its wrong of you to presume what they are doing without knowing even a little . 

 

As you stated skill dose not have that much of a value, most of the time you dont clearly even see the reward. As such this is often shadowed by other content hungry players who spam the forums & DE stating "yeah , we can do that" aiming to please.

This situation is where comnpanys get to say " the players dont know what they want" because most dont even see or notice more important matters. 

Also from my knowledge of how games are made there is always a priority LIST of elements that need to be done and adressed that is always taken into account .

 

- "designing content past a certain threshold became a guessing game for the reasons I stated"

Wrong and i would like to see how you got the calculation and official method the DE thought about when considering player progress before jumping to conclusions over this topic. I find deductive reasoning not that precises in matters such as this.

But I find it fair to add that in DE's defence they have always show and openly stated they have the utmost interest in player progression.This however cannot only be interpreted as "there is no method", it would be wrong.

The money that you can get from missions & alerts + resources is the deciding factor in buying or making weapons. Mods that you find improve the weapon performance. Money has been a topic that had been talked about where many players have too much and some too little. 

It is not impossible to do missions without serration or redirection, considering your in a team / cell . I have played solo on difficult planets and can say that if you dont rush ,take your time and have a bit of skill ... i doubt you cannot finish the mission.

Replaying missions is an element of any game, reasoning behind it is that the life of the game should not end once you completed all the missions. Secondly making things to easy is something that throws ppl off from valueing or playing games. 

The life of the game is also one reason ppl ask for PVP and a fun version to boot. 

 

"When skill becomes exploiting the mechanics of the game to get ahead, it does nothing but showcase bad design. "

Completely and entirely agree with you that it showcases a bad design. Yet if the above topic didint quench some of your thirst , i will add that exploiting was not an intended purpose when designing the mechanics of the game.  Considering the many changes the game had and still has, its not uncommon that some things dont get that much attention. 

Its good that you brought this to ppl and DE's attention as it should get some love.

 

- Getting rid of mods 

As stated in my original post its not the best choice. As an idea, Its a part that ads originallity to the game and imens options and diversity to freely tweak elements, making everything more relatable and your own. 

YES it has problems and it is obvious that there is a finite no. that can be made . At some point you will have to many to count as the matemathical combinations are great , by far exceeding the expectation of any player. Once they run out one can simply add another factor the game or split up "again" elements so that new mods can be spawned . 

"The Mod Card system makes designing content a guessing game."

Nice assumption and apparantly to players it dose , to DE i seriously doubt it . Its not that i have that much faith in them, nothing of the sort, more exactly is that as a procedure one dose not blindly put values to content. 

Agree bosses shouldent have to die so esaly and for that matter they could extend their life and difficulty so that we battle them for hours. 

A more realistic solution might be to be dependent on the sum of the conclave point of the teams equippment + lvl of the players leaving only the wf (player) points be deciding factor in beating the boss. 

 

"Currently the Mastery Rank system is largely useless."

+1 with you..and the rewards. The idea of mastery rank is good , as it is now with the many changes how ever i feel it should change to, possibly give a rewards such a blueprint or mod , that would enshure a progression , player satisfaction and a basis to start from  , if not guns and access to planets as you suggested. 

 

In my oppinion regarding the gameplay (besides tweaks) , it lacks a dinamyc such as suprise elements , wtf moments, and things that start out one way and end up completly diffrent, at a difficulty that is almost overwhelming . Elements that make you wonder what happens next or make you think what to do and how to approach thing without dieing 

DE has on some degree done this with Stalker , and that the tilesets arent always the same. Invincible bosses in some instance. But problem is we got used to it and expect it making it a routine. 

 

Your changes and my oppinion to them :

-" Replacing the Mod Card system, is a skill tree"

Its a good idea but , no, i wouldent want it, the system that you suggest,  is already used in many games (ex: League of legends has it and its called mastery tree),  It houses benefits and downsides like any system in generall. 

As i stated in my post i find it not to be that original and a factor that would make me  get bored of the game easaly even if it permits a limited amount of changes and styles. 

Fact is you get more out of Mods. Yes yes there are problems there too . There are mods that are universally good for all and some that are also good that fall off , i am aware.

"Giving players the ability to gimp their effectiveness via poor design choices is just stupid. What this showcases is too much choice, for the wrong reasons. Just because someone can, doesn’t mean they should."

Considering the context in which this is written, ill say that even with skill trees there is a possibility of trolling. So this is up to you and me and everyone who playes in how we act with trolls, or you could play with friends. Designing has little to do , and if it did it would restrictive on the players, most of which who dont deserve it , thats something to think of too.  You could just let the player die and continue with your business , considering you have a BRAKK that is strong enough to kill a boss in 2 shots. 

"give that choice back to the players." (regarding abilitys)

Considering warframe like Ember even if she had the ability to fully tank you have to take into account the other WF too. All should be viable and balanced between them , not just 1 that can be op . Having dmg and tanking to put you ahead of others, one cannot eat the cake and still have it...

"Tweak each powers' functionality "+These are functions the current Mod Card system does not allow for,"

Yes , currently you cannot fully blur the lines to fit your playstile to the degree you mentioned. However this can be a topic for new mods and ideas that refreshes warframe gameplay. Its good  inspirational material for them. 

At this time you can do a bit of change but that requires sacrifice and you lose some stats. My concern lies with the fact that even if you have a balanced frame , there will be others that are balanced but are potentially better then yours. Either way a full tank and a full nuker will always outshine you sadly. 

 

"Attachments"

  A solution to the problem "Serration, Hornet Strike and Point Blank need to disappear alongside with the Mod Card system."

Its to everyones knowledge when you give the ability to tweak a weapon you deffenetly will have to have something for DMG. It was bound to be there. Also currently you cannot see fizical changes to the weapons once you modded them , no 2nd barrel appears, ammo clip isint longer .

Attachments can be used as well as with mods or specific types of mods. The result may offer the same ballance you want too. 

But consider you had a rifle and 3 mods for buffing fire rate.... would eliminate them as well ? Its not wrong to have mods like that , its wrong that the mods give you exagerated stats in comparison to enemyes. 

Regarding attachements you are also saying how ppl should play their weapons , same as mods do.  Problem you keep repeating. 

 

AT warframes you want freedome, at weapons you want freedome all the while your solutions give a limited amount of freedome similarily to the existing mod card system. Difference being that yours is structured to not allow exagerations. Imposing a cap to your "freedome" for the sake of balance. 

 

"Mods should not make the gun. The gun should should already be a lethal entity."

+1 well said. 

 

"With mods completely gone from Warframes and guns; where does that leave melee? Once again, better off. Replacing mods and the entire melee system is the Fight Lab. Right now melee is completely unviable, nor does it compliment gunplay or power use. It is a very basic and unrewarding single button action. "

A gun complements swordplay not vice versa. I disagree with what you stated having a different oppinion.

I personally use melee weapons and find them easy to use, preffering it above everything else in surtain missions especially regarding infested. 

Its an exageration that is a single button action, because you use a combination of buttons to achive slides on the ground, slides on the air , ground slams etc. You can even do stealth kills , wall jump attacks. 

"Maxing Pressure Point and pressing E?" do you even play melee ? have you heard of charge dmg builds ?

 

"Combos and stances" 

The idea is already used in other games . +THIS IS NOT DMC where the mobs are x times slower then you are in reaction . I have played many DMC games and because of the lack of characters the combos and the fighting styles are there to add more depth and customization . Calling them stances dose not change what they are, the idea is the same even if you change a few things. 

IN Warframe the frames are the main peace with unique aspects . If you make fighting styles and consider the original aspect that frames are the stars you would require individually made styles for each one to make them shine and not make swordfighting boring and universal after a time.

Another downside to the stance is that you wont have to get new weapons since 1 would do the job in any situation, which in case you saw in history dose not exist , we dont have a swiss knife version for a universal weapon yet. 

+Other weapons would fall short and ppl wont want to change , maybe only out of boredom. Using fist weapons against many oponents of corse should be worse than using a lance. 

 

Combos on the other hand would be an interesting addition to game yes, thats a nice idea.+1 . The limit the combos CC the oppoent is something that worries me , hence you could combo a boss and have him effectivly CC the hole time . 

 

 

 

To summarize  and the most important part  :

 

I can see that considering the many problems even fundemantal , it was easyer to get to a point of "scrap it " and you went and proposed a change. I congratulate you for that as i did in my post since many ppl preffer to QQ and complain, you didint , Good job.

My oppinion on this subject is that you shouldn't give up on already existing systems since its not as bad as it sounds and DE should implement fixes .(I personally doubt they would rechange it at this point 360 dagrees,  even if they wanted to, alot of thing involved are revolving around money ....  )

This is the fundemantal difference, i prefer tweaking rather than scraping and making a new one. If so than be it original not altered copys.

(There is a saying "It is impossible to make anything foolproof because fools are so ingenious."- Murphy)

 

So Its not about using the word "true or untrue " and sure we can find fault in everything if we search hard enough. Everyone is free to dream and intiteled to their oppinon. If you still feel that "injustice " has been made to you tell me and ill give you my skype ID to talk..

 

Also "Dont take a privelege like DE reading your ideas in a cunstroctive fashion and mix it up with telling them how they should make their game and do their job. Its disrespectful beyond suggestions." I take it back since you did propose  

But care at how you "say" poor work or poor design considering you basing this on assumptions and CARE how you promiss or even garantee things & results considering they are just ideas. 

[tmtke]

Looks like someone again, didn't even bother to read.

 

Looks like again, you don't want to listen.

[nemarsde]

I think, in general terms, theGreatZamboni's design direction is the only way forward for Warframe. I think the specifics could be touched up, sure, but we'll all have our own opinion about the specifics. As a direction, as a manifesto, it's spot on.

 

So, let's imagine a bright future where DE announced they were taking this new direction, and the old system was being scrapped.

 

How would we convert old accounts to the new system in a fair way?

 

Perhaps mod cards could be converted to raw XP, based on the rarity and rank?