A Follow Up On My Last Post, But Concerning Forma In General...

[GrimMyfanwy]

So last night I was tinkering with build (like you do) and I had an idea.

One I think is really good, so I wanted to share.

With the Helminth system, you allow us to add abilities to individual configurations of a warframe.

Can you do the same with polarizations? If you fail to heed the entertaining, sage bordering on genius, and, most of all, humble of advice of my last post, this would go a long way to mitigate FOBN a lot of players have hanging over their head (it's like FOMO, but the last two words rhyme with "seeing turf"). 

I see it happening like this: Lock config A in place. This is your base build, any forma applied here is applied to all configs, however, if a forma is applied to B or C it only applied to that config. If you did weapons as well, you should allow polarity swapping on a per config basis and would have to visually link the individual slots (numbering them or such) so that you could swap polarities on individual configs while still knowing that if you polarize slot 3 in Config A, it will carry over to all config slot 3's regardless of where you swapped them to.

This would let the player experiment with non-umbra builds on an umbral build frame (or weapon!) without the need to risk said Umbra forma or build a duplicate copy of the frame.

This last one sucks for Duviri... did you know that before that update I had 2 of each of a lot of prime frames (12,000 hours is a lot of time and I had to farm something), one of which I would use umbra forma on (which usually was the better build), and one which used only regular forma (which was not as powerful and ended up using more more forma in total than the umbral build... which meant these were the only frames that were offered to me instead of my better umbral ones). I had to sell off all of them to make Duviri tolerable. 

I won't lie, this upset me.

Like a lot.

*wipes a lone tear from their eye*

But this system I'm suggesting could avoid all that pain... that deep seated, unending agony of loss that one is sure they will never be rid of... 

...

Sorry.

I'll be honest, while I don't know coding, I'm pretty sure this would require a lot of changes, and I understand if the suggestion is disregarded because of that, but I wanted to offer up the idea, and open the possibility of this or some other similar system to you.

Edited January 16 by GrimMyfanwy
poor proof reading

[RLanzinger]

To @GrimMyfanwy,

Technically a Temporary Forma system exist within Simulacrum already.

You cannot test it in mission. Only versus mobs.

So adding a Simulacrum's Missions (just Try a mission with NO rewards).

We have Already Normal/ Steel path missions. A Simulacrum's Navigation console could solve it without much codding.

Friendly yours,

[GrimMyfanwy]

1 hour ago, RLanzinger said:

To @GrimMyfanwy,

Technically a Temporary Forma system exist within Simulacrum already.

You cannot test it in mission. Only versus mobs.

So adding a Simulacrum's Missions (just Try a mission with NO rewards).

We have Already Normal/ Steel path missions. A Simulacrum's Navigation console could solve it without much codding.

Friendly yours,

Thank you for the reply, but I think you may have missed my point.

Check that, I know you did.

Testing new builds isn't even mentioned, the main point is adding a system that adds more build diversity to a single frame, as opposed to the need for multiple frames for multiple builds.

Case in point:

I have a solid support Frost that uses 2 umbra polarities, 2 naramon (-) polarities, a Madurai (V) and a Vazarin (D). But the build I would also want, for an offensive frost, requires 0 Umbra, 2 naramon (-) polarities, 2 Madurai (V) and 3 Vazarin (D). Now to play both frames, I need to build 2 Frosts, but with Duviri, since the second frost will have more forma in it, it will always be selected even though the Umbra frost is better suited for the all around gameplay. 

With my suggestion, I could put the umbras on Config A, which would then carry over to B and C, but then I could then re-forma B to the new build without affecting A or C giving me much greater diversity in a frame without affecting any frame's strength (since I can't change config in mission) and without eliminating the work or resources it takes to make the build (with the sole exception of building a new frame for the new build). 

If I want to try a new build after the three given, I spend a little plat to buy a new config slot, Config D, which would be a copy of Config A that I could then modify for the new build.

Testing was never an issue The issue is the game requires you to either constantly overwrite polarities with new updates, excessively limits the amount of umbra forma you get per year (8.5 on average between nightwave and Teshin) and decides for you which of your multiple frames of the same type is your best through a system that only uses the number of forma on it as the metric.

After 10 years and 12k hours played, I'm sick of the wasted effort. Literally wasted. I had to sell, for credits, a fully worked up Ash Prime, Ember Prime, 2 Frost Primes, Rhino Prime, Trinity Prime, Valkyr Prime, and a Volt Prime as well as 8 other non-prime frames to make Duviri playable last year. Frames that I had for years in my arsenal. While I joke about it now in the post, this still infuriates me. to the point I came damn near walking away from the game entirely.

The system I propose would have prevented all of that.

[quxier]

2 hours ago, RLanzinger said:

To @GrimMyfanwy,

Technically a Temporary Forma system exist within Simulacrum already.

You cannot test it in mission. Only versus mobs.

So adding a Simulacrum's Missions (just Try a mission with NO rewards).

We have Already Normal/ Steel path missions. A Simulacrum's Navigation console could solve it without much codding.

Friendly yours,

Wait... so I can polarize stuff in Simulacrum?! Does it use forma? Do I have to level up to 30(or more)?

[RLanzinger]

To @quxier,

The nightwave act "Polarized : Polarize with Forma 1 time (not in Simulacrum)" is made to avoid this exploit by keeping one forma and using it in simu only.

 

Condition of use is the same (rk30) and it can be use to test a polarity with your build; I did use it last year to try a few odds builds;

Pretty happy to found out it was absolute useless in Simulacrum (as a MR30 there is no downside).

[Fred_Avant_2019]

Can't believe you actually sold frames for something as trivial as the circuit.

Don't get me wrong, there are frames I used Umbral Formas on when I probably shouldn't have had, like Wukong, Atlas or Frost, but I don't think I really care all that much about that. At the end of the day, it doesn't really stop me from building stuff, I just need to account for the umbra polarities by overformaing elsewhere, or god forbids, leave exilus slot empty.

I just don't see this ever happening though.

 

Il y a 7 heures, GrimMyfanwy a dit :

The issue is the game requires you to either constantly overwrite polarities with new updates

Maybe that's just me having only half your hours (steam claims I'm at 6.6k), but that's not necessarly something I agree with.

Shieldgating changes haven't had much impact on my builds, as I always have a single vazarin per frame in most cases, two on more specific frames like Nova where I'd usually run Narrow Minded with Overextended on a speedva build; frames you'd typically use SEVERAL umbra formas on wouldn't be casters (I have one single umbra forma on my Saryn Prime for instance, but that's just for Umbral Intensify, yet that still allows me to go run bulkier builds with a full umbral setup, because all my other slots are forma'd coherently), and that's the only time I'd consider changing a forma "bothersome". The "meta" just does not change every update, we didn't get to a state where a bombard could oneshot you regardless of your stats to "shield gating is immortality" overnight.

You've been around here for much longer than I have, obviously, but you didn't seriously expect things to never change, did you? Change did come, and even more so since Warframe is clear of the influence of mister "I'm gonna nerf the sh*t out of Itzal", but not to the point where you have to change a hundred builds per trimester.

 

Just to be clear, I'm not against the suggested idea, I just find the justification behind it to be not so relevant. It's an improvement to customization after all, if done right, which, objectively speaking, no Tenno would be against, but chances are it won't be done right. After all, you can't have one specific ability be in two different slots on two different configs, you can only have one specific ability be in one slot across several configs of your chosing, which limits build diversity across configs, something that can cause issues in Duviri for instance.

[GrimMyfanwy]

First if you are going to quote me do so in full context please. The game does require you to repolarize frames to shift with the current gameplaysystems, my point in that statement was what you left out, that Duviri only used forma count to determine the best frame.

3 hours ago, Fred_Avant_2019 said:

Can't believe you actually sold frames for something as trivial as the circuit.

I don't see the Steel Path Circuit as trivial (I should have stated I was referring to steel path since all content below that is trivial to me as far as challenge and enjoyment goes), considering how powerful the incarnons are and it validated my taking the time to work up every weapon released (2406 forma and counting) (Edit: and no, none of that 100 forma Lex meme crap... I'm looking at you Forma Addict, wherever you are) since I started playing a decade ago.

3 hours ago, Fred_Avant_2019 said:

Maybe that's just me having only half your hours (steam claims I'm at 6.6k), but that's not necessarly something I agree with.

I'm at 12,000 hours as per steam, in game my time (which only counts when you are actively in a mission) is 7500 hours, which makes sense since it would seem reasonable that I spend about a 3rd of my time on tinkering with builds, going to relays,etc.

And no, I'm not saying this to brag. Spending that much time on a game is nothing to brag about, but I spent that time learning to master the game to the best of my ability, learning all the systems, ignoring the meta FOTM builds and learning to craft my own by applying those systems. When I plateaued by playing, I took a trick from martial arts and started teaching others the game, learning a lot more in the process. I bring this up not to establish authority, just to establish my credentials in making the suggestion. I don't post feedback without the careful consideration this time spent has allowed me to have.

3 hours ago, Fred_Avant_2019 said:

You've been around here for much longer than I have, obviously, but you didn't seriously expect things to never change, did you?

Of course I do and I welcome change, though not the tone of condescension in that question, but I prefer that gameplay changes are accompanied by QoL changes as well. I was ecstatic when they remove abilities as mods even though it dropped the number of slots a frame had to from 10 to 8 + aura, but when they did this they accompanied it by not lowering the frame's base mod capacity.

I actually did a little dance of joy when they removed the spin to win method of traversal, but when they did this they added a completely new parkour system for traversal.

When they removed Trials from the game I was sad, but they added arcanes to the Eidolon Hunts.

I was irritated when they kept adding mods to an already bloated drop table that were at best situational, but happy that they then released the exilus system to compensate for for that situational usage.

Backend changes, major or minor, are a must for almost every gameplay change, major or minor.

My suggestion only lists my views on current examples, but I like to think it is foresighted enough to contend with a lot of changes in the future as well.

3 hours ago, Fred_Avant_2019 said:

I just don't see this ever happening though.

To be honest, neither do I.

Maybe I'm just spitting in the wind, but good game development depends on feedback, whether it is used or not.

Maybe my suggestion gives them a better idea.

Maybe they never even look at this post.

But as you even admitted, the idea is not a bad one, so nothing is lost by putting it out there.

Edited January 17 by GrimMyfanwy