We Need Some Mediocre Ability Mods

[(PSN)Sentiel]

15 minutes ago, CrownOfShadows said:

Yeah range is touchy, but I agree I don't know that we really need to be as scared of it as we have been - especially for mid mods, although this varies by ability, I'm sure some nukes would just become way too oppressive.

As long as the extra Range comes with a negative then it should be fine.

That said, some frames are already oppressive, namely when using Thermal Sunder. I'm sure you already encountered Titania or Gauss rushing through the map burning everything in their path even on SP.

[(PSN)MYKK678]

44 minutes ago, CrownOfShadows said:

I disagree primarily because we need different stats to compromise on, not the same stats, in which case a half ranked mod isn't helping.

You may have missed the point of that example, it's meant to work primarily in conjunction with Molt Reconstruct (and the Augur Set and Brief Respite, etc), because hp tanks love to use that arcane for it's amazing health regen (if they aren't gloomers). It's meant to help save you by making it easier to cast abilities when low hp, as casting abilities is a primary way of staying alive, something that is put in jeopardy when low health and low energy. Regardless, it's just an example to help show possibilities, I'll leave the details up to DE.

I disagree, there is no real reason we don't have more mid mods other than they just didn't get around to it (or possibly because they were scared of the stacked totals when you run both a high mod and a mid mod like Transient Fortitude and Blind Rage). Mid mods don't provide an unfair advantage to any one frame except in the case where certain frames benefit from certain ability stats more than others, and as noted this is already massively the case with the existing stat canyons.

The numbers in the initial post are definitely not correct, I was just spitballing when I made those. The numbers in the later posts should be correct except for the caveats mentioned. You're welcome to check the math yourself on those, it's not my strength.

So to the first point, let's be transparent and honest about this. This is a Want, not a Need. Theres no area of the game severely suffering right now because of a lack of mods. Theres plenty of problems that need fixing, but none caused by mod options.

The second point is another example of variables not being taken into consideration. For clarity I'm not pointing this out to mock, but to highlight problems. You just claimed the mod was designed with Molt Reconstruct in mind, as well as other mods too. Molt Reconstruct heals you based on how much energy you just spent on a power you used. You've effectively just decreased that heal. Max Rank heals you 6HP for every 1 energy point spent. So if you use a power that costs you 100 energy, you get 600 health back. But you just increased that person's Efficiency, dropping the 100 cost and thus dropping the Heal. So even if we put aside everything else mentioned before, it's not going to work the way you'd hoped.

For clarity though, Mid Mods absolutely would cause unfair advantages. You'd be introducing a new range mod to help Saryn disrupt things even more than she already does. Dante was just nerfed to have LOS because the Devs thought his high range could become disruptive.

Regarding the third point, it's basically a subject we can't really discuss accurately. Considering you don't work for DE, you can't know that they "just haven't gotten around to it". That's not me saying I know any better either, I don't. I don't work for them either. So it's basically pitting 2 guesses against each other and there may never be an answer available to confirm which was correct. All I'll say is that I side with the idea that it's intentional, for a good reason, considering how many Augment Mods are released each year. You'd think if they wanted mid ability mods in the game, not only would it be less work than Augments, but would easily hold a higher priority. But it hasn't. Regardless though, like yourself, I don't know.

 

Edited May 13 by (PSN)MYKK678
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[CrownOfShadows]

13 hours ago, (PSN)MYKK678 said:

So to the first point, let's be transparent and honest about this. This is a Want, not a Need. Theres no area of the game severely suffering right now because of a lack of mods. Theres plenty of problems that need fixing, but none caused by mod options..

Depends on your definition I suppose, I mean is anything in a game a true need? How do you define a video game 'need'? But there is definitely a need as I see it; there's a need because there's a lack. A want is when there is no lack but you want it anyway. That's not the case here: there is a big lack. Some frames are severely disadvantaged because of the current dispersal of stats, others are massively advantaged.

13 hours ago, (PSN)MYKK678 said:

The second point is another example of variables not being taken into consideration. For clarity I'm not pointing this out to mock, but to highlight problems. You just claimed the mod was designed with Molt Reconstruct in mind, as well as other mods too. Molt Reconstruct heals you based on how much energy you just spent on a power you used. You've effectively just decreased that heal. Max Rank heals you 6HP for every 1 energy point spent. So if you use a power that costs you 100 energy, you get 600 health back. But you just increased that person's Efficiency, dropping the 100 cost and thus dropping the Heal. So even if we put aside everything else mentioned before, it's not going to work the way you'd hoped.

A fine point

13 hours ago, (PSN)MYKK678 said:

For clarity though, Mid Mods absolutely would cause unfair advantages. You'd be introducing a new range mod to help Saryn disrupt things even more than she already does. Dante was just nerfed to have LOS because the Devs thought his high range could become disruptive.

You're assuming they're stackable though like Transient Fortitude and Blind Rage, but I went to great pains to highlight this issue and provide alternative solutions. Making mutually exclusive mid mods is a great way to get around this, if DE even cares about it. Like I said, I'm not really after this, I just want middle mods, they don't need to be stackable.

And again, even if they are stackable it's still not as big a bonus as the fissure bonus or the helminth bonus, and there is already an unfair advantage for certain frames, so this would provide an unfair advantage the other direction, which is 'fair' in the grand scheme because it's helping balance the overall field - don't forget corrupted mods come with a penalty - these aren't meant to be free stats. The only reason it would suck is there are frames in the middle, who might benefit from both while not being significantly hurt by either penalty, thus leaving both sides behind, which is the main reason to go for non-stackable varieties instead, but an alternative would be to rebalance those outliers' ability numbers instead I suppose - there should only be a few in each category.

[Merkranire]

I wouldn’t say no to more modding options. Whether it gets your min-maxing jollies off is of little concern, but opening different ways to build is always welcome

edit: Even if they become mods that players feel like they constantly have to equip to keep up with the joneses, that’s fine.

double edit: Could play with more attributes as well, like disabling bulletjump for a bonus or intermingling with other mechanics like blocking

Edited May 13 by Merkranire

[(PSN)MYKK678]

4 hours ago, CrownOfShadows said:

Depends on your definition I suppose, I mean is anything in a game a true need? How do you define a video game 'need'? But there is definitely a need as I see it; there's a need because there's a lack. A want is when there is no lack but you want it anyway. That's not the case here: there is a big lack. Some frames are severely disadvantaged because of the current dispersal of stats, others are massively advantaged.

A fine point

You're assuming they're stackable though like Transient Fortitude and Blind Rage, but I went to great pains to highlight this issue and provide alternative solutions. Making mutually exclusive mid mods is a great way to get around this, if DE even cares about it. Like I said, I'm not really after this, I just want middle mods, they don't need to be stackable.

And again, even if they are stackable it's still not as big a bonus as the fissure bonus or the helminth bonus, and there is already an unfair advantage for certain frames, so this would provide an unfair advantage the other direction, which is 'fair' in the grand scheme because it's helping balance the overall field - don't forget corrupted mods come with a penalty - these aren't meant to be free stats. The only reason it would suck is there are frames in the middle, who might benefit from both while not being significantly hurt by either penalty, thus leaving both sides behind, which is the main reason to go for non-stackable varieties instead, but an alternative would be to rebalance those outliers' ability numbers instead I suppose - there should only be a few in each category.

That wouldn't really be a good example of Wants vs Needs to be honest. A Need in a game is something that is necessary in order to fix an unintentional disruptive element that is either hampering the game or has made any challenge trivial. Glitches blocking progress, Bosses hitting harder than intended, items or weapons or powers calculated incorrectly and released stronger than intended, Exploits that need to be closed off etc etc. This is an example of a Want simply because it's someone looking at a system in the game that is working fine for most people, but they'd like X to be added based on their preference. Just because it's a Want doesn't diminish the value it can add, it's just not as necessary as a Need.

It's possible I missed it but I didn't see anything about whether they were stackable or not. I don't mean you can throw all the new mods on at once, but like with Blind Rage and Transient Fortitude I had assumed the plan was you could put a current Max + a new Mid on. Theres a very specific reason why out of 6 total Archon Shards, none of them give you an option to increase Ability Range. The allowance of Range to increase beyond the current limit just wouldn't be an option, as its obvious DE would consider that Disruptive to Other Players Enjoyment, one of the big 3.

Regarding the Middling Frames, that's another matter altogether. No mods will fix that issue, as any boost a mod gives to the Middling Frames it gives equal boosts to the better Frames. That's a matter of DE looking into Reworks and Buffs.