Arca Titron - Each stack of slam capacitor should provide a larger boost than it does now (50-100% per stack more?) Warframe buffs/Rivens feel absolutely mandatory for the weapon currently. Also it doesn't proc electric on slams.

[owendawgx]

The Arca Titron is one of the worst melee weapons in the entire game, with the dismal hammer follow-through stat of .4 and being one of if not the slowest melee weapon in the entire game.

Old Slam capacitor with the slam buffs was absolutely overtuned. 

However, the slam capacitor nerfs now put the Arca Titron in too weak of a state given that you HAVE to support it with outside buffs to even allow it to kill enemies in a reasonable amount of time. I have a riven that provides 90% attack speed and ~180% toxin damage and I absolutely NEED to stack slam capacitor to 9 or 10 to kill high-level steel path enemies even with heavy slams, and it absolutely will fall off against tougher eximus or the new highest level enemies we can encounter. This is an issue because it takes the Arca Titron much, much, much longer to kill the average enemy than most melee weapons, necessitating ability support to even let the weapon function effectively. 

Keep in mind, my arca titron build is stronger than the vast majority of players due to my incredible riven. And it still feels lackluster.

I want to make it clear, the Arca Titron is a terrible traditional melee weapon, Slam Capacitor needs to be insanely strong for the weapon to be worth using  at all. The buff does not need to be multiplicative, but it needs to be higher than it is now. 

Please buff the slam damage per stack on slam capacitor from what it is now (100% per stack - 1000% max) to something significantly higher (150/200% per stack - 1500/2000% max.) The Arca Titron could reach problematic damage numbers previously but was held back by the rest of the weapon being terrible. The slam attacks need to do ridiculous damage without armor strip to warrant using the weapon at all since they require a huge amount of build up on a very subpar melee to activate.

ALSO, the weapon is bugged and does not proc electricity on every slam capacitor slam like it says it should. This is another huge issue with the weapon. It is presumably a bug so I am also reporting it separately.  

Alternatively, you could revert slam capacitor to being a multiplicative buff but cap it at something like 4 or 5 stacks, which would prevent it from reaching the insanity it did previously. 

Edited April 4 by owendawgx

[(PSN)Pablogamer585]

Only thing I believe about this is the ground slams failing to proc electricity.

[owendawgx]

29 minutes ago, (PSN)Pablogamer585 said:

Only thing I believe about this is the ground slams failing to proc electricity.

What you "believe" doesn't change the fact that the arca titron is a horrible generic melee weapon with a strong buff that needs to make the weapon worth it. Abysmal .4 follow through, lowest in the game. Slowest attack speed in the game. Not slash-weighted.

It might be the single most-nerfed (numbers wise) anything has ever been in this game outside of bug fixes. It went from a 3072x multiplier with a single slam mod to a 13x under the same conditions. That's .4% of what it was previously. 

Obviously it used to be overtuned, but the slam capacitor buffs needs to make up for the fact that you are using an extremely weak melee weapon, and at present it does not.

[(PSN)Pablogamer585]

hace 11 minutos, owendawgx dijo:

What you "believe" doesn't change the fact that the arca titron is a horrible generic melee weapon with a strong buff that needs to make the weapon worth it.

It may be slow, yes, it's the highest damage hammer after all, same happens to the Gram Prime, it also has low follow-through, unexpected out of a blunt heavy weapon like a hammer, but man, I sure wonder how many rivens or warframe buffs does that non-helminth Inaros have active to make such a terrible weapon casually hit for the maximum damage possible the game can process, to one-hit ko an enemy with damage reduction, not a single status applied, and armour.

I believe even you can count them from watching.

[owendawgx]

14 minutes ago, (PSN)Pablogamer585 said:

It may be slow, yes, it's the highest damage hammer after all, same happens to the Gram Prime, it also has low follow-through, unexpected out of a blunt heavy weapon like a hammer, but man, I sure wonder how many rivens or warframe buffs does that non-helminth Inaros have active to make such a terrible weapon casually hit for the maximum damage possible the game can process, to one-hit ko an enemy with damage reduction, not a single status applied, and armour.

I believe even you can count them from watching.

This video was uploaded a day ago genius. I am talking about a nerf that happened THIS MORNING. 

Edited April 4 by owendawgx

[(PSN)Pablogamer585]

hace 3 minutos, owendawgx dijo:

This video was uploaded a day ago genius. I am talking about a nerf that happened THIS MORNING. 

Wasn't aware of it being nerfed, apologies, haven't seen any patch notes nor heard anything due to being far too busy with work, but now that I've read about it;
Meh, won't hit damage cap with ease, but it's still good thanks to the slam damage changes, just gotta work for it, not that Melee Influence re-applying every single damage instance the slam does is broken or anything, but better complain about nerfs to broken stuff than accepting it should be that way, as people did with Dante.

Sooo, yeah, I'll see you again when this is actually one of the worse melee weapons in the game in about 10 years due to powercreep, take it easy, it's probably not as bad as you're making it be.

[Jdres19]

Yup, I think the same, it should be higher than 100%

150%, 200% or 250% at least, it would be better.

[owendawgx]

3 minutes ago, (PSN)Pablogamer585 said:

Wasn't aware of it being nerfed, apologies, haven't seen any patch notes nor heard anything due to being far too busy with work, but now that I've read about it;
Meh, won't hit damage cap with ease, but it's still good thanks to the slam damage changes, just gotta work for it, not that Melee Influence re-applying every single damage instance the slam does is broken or anything, but better complain about nerfs to broken stuff than accepting it should be that way, as people did with Dante.

Sooo, yeah, I'll see you again when this is actually one of the worse melee weapons in the game in about 10 years due to powercreep, take it easy, it's probably not as bad as you're making it be.

What I was trying to say is that for normal melee the arca titron is one of the worst. Not overall. That's relevant because you need to get kills with normal melee to access the crazy slams, so the slams need to be sufficiently crazy to make up for the very slow time to kill the weapon has when you're building it up.

That's what I was trying to get across, that the payoff doesn't quite meet the build-up requirements as it stands now. I apologize if I was hostile.

[owendawgx]

8 minutes ago, Jdres19 said:

Yup, I think the same, it should be higher than 100%

150%, 200% or 250% at least, it would be better.

If it was 150%/1500% max it would be the same as the old Arca Titron with 4 Slam Capacitor stacks, but now it requires 10. Even at 250% it would still be less than the old Arca Titron at 5 stacks, but now requiring 10. I think that is a more than fair trade off.

[(PSN)Pablogamer585]

Justo ahora, owendawgx dijo:

What I was trying to say is that for normal melee the arca titron is one of the worst. Not overall. That's relevant because you need to get kills with normal melee to access the crazy slams, so the slams need to be sufficiently crazy to make up for the very slow time to kill the weapon has when you're building it up.

That's what I was trying to get across, that the payoff doesn't quite meet the build-up requirements as it stands now. I apologize if I was hostile.

Nu worries! To me the ups overcome the lows, as the increased comfort of endless duration on the capacitor + not having to worry anymore about wasting it with the stance combos that include ground slams is quite huge since it forced me to stop amidst a combo.

I too do have a riven for my Titron (>240% damage & crit chance, it's 2 Umbral mods in one), and always used light attacks builds on my melees, up until now with Tennokai which has opened a frontier of possibilities.
Even without my riven, I'd say the weapon is still fantastic thanks to the new tools we got, although the low attack speed is somewhat wacky.
Similarly to the Agendus, or Ekhein which are the most comparable to it imo, the massive potential is cut short by enemy defences, therefore pairing the weapon with a way to deal with those is the better choice. Stills, the Titron does not disappoint me as does the Ekhein due to its good performance for both lights & heavies.

I wouldn't buff Slam capacitor again to compensate the problem you're finding with the light attacks, as it simply wouldn't solve it.
Honestly only two changes I'd make is give it 0'4m more range to make up for it being the slowest of hammers, similarly to how Ekein has 2'8m & 0'77 attack speed but gains 20% from performing heavies, and better follow-through of 0'7, since it would make sense from a design perspective, for this is much more status-leaning than other hammers, even than Volnus Prime itself.

Or, alternatively we could go back to Kuva / Tenet weapons (plz) instead of releasing broken incarnon genesises, and get a Tenet Arca Titron with a similar treatment to the one the Opticor Vandal got compared to the Opticor. I believe both of us would like that.

[owendawgx]

59 minutes ago, (PSN)Pablogamer585 said:

Nu worries! To me the ups overcome the lows, as the increased comfort of endless duration on the capacitor + not having to worry anymore about wasting it with the stance combos that include ground slams is quite huge since it forced me to stop amidst a combo.

I too do have a riven for my Titron (>240% damage & crit chance, it's 2 Umbral mods in one), and always used light attacks builds on my melees, up until now with Tennokai which has opened a frontier of possibilities.
Even without my riven, I'd say the weapon is still fantastic thanks to the new tools we got, although the low attack speed is somewhat wacky.
Similarly to the Agendus, or Ekhein which are the most comparable to it imo, the massive potential is cut short by enemy defences, therefore pairing the weapon with a way to deal with those is the better choice. Stills, the Titron does not disappoint me as does the Ekhein due to its good performance for both lights & heavies.

I wouldn't buff Slam capacitor again to compensate the problem you're finding with the light attacks, as it simply wouldn't solve it.
Honestly only two changes I'd make is give it 0'4m more range to make up for it being the slowest of hammers, similarly to how Ekein has 2'8m & 0'77 attack speed but gains 20% from performing heavies, and better follow-through of 0'7, since it would make sense from a design perspective, for this is much more status-leaning than other hammers, even than Volnus Prime itself.

Or, alternatively we could go back to Kuva / Tenet weapons (plz) instead of releasing broken incarnon genesises, and get a Tenet Arca Titron with a similar treatment to the one the Opticor Vandal got compared to the Opticor. I believe both of us would like that.

Increased hammer follow through is honestly so desperately needed in my opinion. Hammers and dual swords sit at .4 and .5 respectively and that just doesn't really work for high levels where there can be 6+ enemies right in front of your face in some game modes

[StyreRai]

I agree with this. A second look at the Arca Titron is needed. Yes it was busted before and was expected to be more so with the slam changes, but as a traditional base type weapon with terrible stats compared to today's contenders, main damage type of impact, slowest attack speed melee, and abysmal follow-through, the gimmick of charges was the only thing going for it.

Even then it required high effort through normal attacks with very low damage (even more so with SP armor values with normal heavy attacks needed to get charges) needing outside buffs/armor stripping/priming and low time to get, hold on to, and use the charges alongside the risk of losing the charges through normal attacks for the result of high reward.

Post nerf, playing it today and its been reduced to high effort for low reward. Other melees with no mechanic needed to get a stronger slam deal SIGNIFICANTLY more damage than this now.

At least treat old traditional weapons to be able to at least have a niche that is viable or even contends in this era of Incarnons. What's the point in investing in non Incarnon weapons for their gimmick when Incarnons are going to be stronger in the end while normal weapons with a crutch with no stronger variants get nerfed to the ground. Practically shooting yourself in the leg.

I also agree with the proposed buff. A significant drop in damage so that it isn't as busted as before but can still have at least a viable niche with it being terrible stat wise. I know we don't speak much with how many people actively use the Arca Titron and its low usage rate, but its just disappointingly sad that the answer to a broken mechanic of a terrible weapon stat wise is to nerf it to the ground.

[owendawgx]

8 hours ago, StyreRai said:

I agree with this. A second look at the Arca Titron is needed. Yes it was busted before and was expected to be more so with the slam changes, but as a traditional base type weapon with terrible stats compared to today's contenders, main damage type of impact, slowest attack speed melee, and abysmal follow-through, the gimmick of charges was the only thing going for it.

Even then it required high effort through normal attacks with very low damage (even more so with SP armor values with normal heavy attacks needed to get charges) needing outside buffs/armor stripping/priming and low time to get, hold on to, and use the charges alongside the risk of losing the charges through normal attacks for the result of high reward.

Post nerf, playing it today and its been reduced to high effort for low reward. Other melees with no mechanic needed to get a stronger slam deal SIGNIFICANTLY more damage than this now.

At least treat old traditional weapons to be able to at least have a niche that is viable or even contends in this era of Incarnons. What's the point in investing in non Incarnon weapons for their gimmick when Incarnons are going to be stronger in the end while normal weapons with a crutch with no stronger variants get nerfed to the ground. Practically shooting yourself in the leg.

I also agree with the proposed buff. A significant drop in damage so that it isn't as busted as before but can still have at least a viable niche with it being terrible stat wise. I know we don't speak much with how many people actively use the Arca Titron and its low usage rate, but its just disappointingly sad that the answer to a broken mechanic of a terrible weapon stat wise is to nerf it to the ground.

Thank you! I tested with it more yesterday and it struggles to kill heavy units at level 170 now with max stacks and a heavy slam, even with a Riven and without any extra warframe buffs. That's on top of the extraordinary slow build up of the buff. 

Level 170 is just a very normal level for us to encounter now, even just in steel path fissures. I think a combination of BOTH fixing the bug where you dont get electric procs AND doubling slam capacitor's buff would probably be enough.

You hit the nail on the head by pointing out that even when it was broken, it was often still slower than a generic meta melee weapon. You can kill 20 enemies with the innodem way faster than you could kill the 6+ enemies with the titrons normal attacks followed by the remainder of them with a slam. Even when the slam could do billions. And now it doesnt even kill the whole group after you stack it to 10 :(

[StyreRai]

2 hours ago, owendawgx said:

Thank you! I tested with it more yesterday and it struggles to kill heavy units at level 170 now with max stacks and a heavy slam, even with a Riven and without any extra warframe buffs. That's on top of the extraordinary slow build up of the buff. 

Level 170 is just a very normal level for us to encounter now, even just in steel path fissures. I think a combination of BOTH fixing the bug where you dont get electric procs AND doubling slam capacitor's buff would probably be enough.

You hit the nail on the head by pointing out that even when it was broken, it was often still slower than a generic meta melee weapon. You can kill 20 enemies with the innodem way faster than you could kill the 6+ enemies with the titrons normal attacks followed by the remainder of them with a slam. Even when the slam could do billions. And now it doesnt even kill the whole group after you stack it to 10 :(

Even more so, slam Incarnons such as Ruvox, Praedos, Magistar Incarnon, could just spam heavy slam attacks through the 4 hit Tennokai mod or initial combo and they are STILL STRONGER than the setup needed for a single 10 charge Arca Titron slam.

Arca Titron charged slams aren't spam-able to just constantly nuke rooms but these slam oriented Incarnons keep their buffs from evolutions to slams all throughout gameplay. It isn't made for high kill requiring missions but mainly around getting stacks from a few kills then using it for a small group or a single target such as disruption or void cascade while others can just spam a heavy focused initial combo build with stronger weapons like the Incarnons. Yes one could use it still for survival missions or exterminate, but its slower and requires more effort as the main source of damage only comes in bursts. More so, using it as a normal melee weapon is practically pointless so yeah any generic meta melee weapon outshines it dps wise.

I am referring to the Incarnons a lot don't I LMAO. Well, considering three of them are practically slam oriented. Its just, something is so satisfying with the gimmick to power your melee and do a strong attack, and with it not paying off is kinda a bummer now.

[sh0shin]

Killed a dead weapon that had the smallest niche (Halikar lol) and then did it to this one for some reason, too. Why? Was there really a fear of this glacially slow hammer taking over the Parkour/Sprint Incarnon stat sticks plus a myriad of far more comfortable weapons?

Edited April 6 by sh0shin