Chroma Rework -- Yes another one

[(XBOX)AudiGuard20]

So this is the 3rd Chroma rework post I've made and thats just because I used to be an advocate of Chroma back in the day, so he needs some love. He did get buffed to make Vex Armor more self-sustaining and better to get both damage and armor buffs which made him better to play as. But it does not help his entire lackluster kit. So, here's some more changes or ideas

Passive: there 2 i thought of that would make sense for Chroma but they may be a little bit too much, so im just gonna list them. The passive where the element is selected by emissive remains

Chroma is immune (or highly resistant depending how strong this is) to the singular elements.

OR

Chroma has a mini conditional overload passive for his weapons. This conditional overload effect is multiplicative, (so basically old condition overload) for all your weapons capping out at lets say 75%.

 

First Ability: Spectral Scream

Chroma can no longer switch between the elements. Now, Chroma will breathe a large breath at the enemies that last a short duration (like 1-3 seconds, unscalable by anything). In this state, Chroma is invulnerable, will be able to move but slow, and will proc all 4 single elements onto enemies in range of the breath.

Second Ability: Elemental Ward 

The same functionality, but the buffs are slightly different. I also thought it would be cool to incorporate the archon mods bonuses onto the ability (some of them at least)

Cold: The same, no changes

Heat: 

Still has health, and health regeneration. On top of that, heat will be applied twice. 

Electricity:

Increased shields, faster recharge rate and lower delay, and still get the arc discharge. Now, electric status effect will grant energy regeneration.

Toxin:

Increase reload speed, fire rate, attack speed. Being surrounded by a toxin aura, enemies who get close will be dealt with a toxin proc , similar to the toxic infested eximus (forgot what they're called)

These ideas are basically to encourage different builds of chroma with different elements.

Third Ability: Vex Armor

Remain the same, the buff to it really helped with sustaining the Damage and Armor buffs.

Fourth Ability: Effigy

Chroma still sheds its pelt. But now, Chroma will be faster and more maneuverable and its pelt will follow you like a turret (behind or around, above, etc. ). While in the turret, the pelt will have an energy drain (but lower than before) and enemies will be focused on the pelt more than you. During this state, the pelt will also periodically cast spectral scream and breathe the elements onto the enemies and casting elemental ward with a random element and give the buff to chroma (at a diminished form) for a certain duration. Optionally, dont know if this is consider too strong, but Chroma has increased status damage.

These are my ideas let me know if this is too much

 

[BiancaRoughfin]

2 hours ago, (XBOX)AudiGuard20 said:

Chroma is immune (or highly resistant depending how strong this is) to the singular elements.

OR

Chroma has a mini conditional overload passive for his weapons. This conditional overload effect is multiplicative, (so basically old condition overload) for all your weapons capping out at lets say 75%.

No...

Most enemy attacks are singular Element based, making him immune to these would make him practically immortal.

And No...

Chroma already has a skill that gives increase to damage, having a passive CO that works with any weapon would be extremely overpowered.

[Okaazkul]

Il y a 4 heures, (XBOX)AudiGuard20 a dit :

First Ability: Spectral Scream

Chroma can no longer switch between the elements.

That not a rework. That a downgrade.

 

Il y a 4 heures, (XBOX)AudiGuard20 a dit :

Passive: there 2 i thought of that would make sense for Chroma but they may be a little bit too much, so im just gonna list them. The passive where the element is selected by emissive remains

Chroma is immune (or highly resistant depending how strong this is) to the singular elements.

OR

Chroma has a mini conditional overload passive for his weapons. This conditional overload effect is multiplicative, (so basically old condition overload) for all your weapons capping out at lets say 75%.

Like @BiancaRoughfin says above, full immunity to singular element is strong because there is not a lot of enemies who inflict combined element damage. And because it's a passive you can't really put that at a high value. At most it can compare to Caliban Wish-Adaptation so a 50% DR to singular damage type so it's not a lot and not really worth it.

And 75% multiplicative damage as a passive to a frame already capable of gaining ~700% base damage is stupidly strong. I don't even know why he should need a passive like that.

And again, we have someone who sleep on the current 3rd jump passive. I know it's not very strong, but I find it to be really handy in the Jupiter tileset and Entrati lab.

Edited April 15 by Okaazkul

[(XBOX)AudiGuard20]

17 hours ago, Okaazkul said:

That not a rework. That a downgrade.

 

Like @BiancaRoughfin says above, full immunity to singular element is strong because there is not a lot of enemies who inflict combined element damage. And because it's a passive you can't really put that at a high value. At most it can compare to Caliban Wish-Adaptation so a 50% DR to singular damage type so it's not a lot and not really worth it.

And 75% multiplicative damage as a passive to a frame already capable of gaining ~700% base damage is stupidly strong. I don't even know why he should need a passive like that.

And again, we have someone who sleep on the current 3rd jump passive. I know it's not very strong, but I find it to be really handy in the Jupiter tileset and Entrati lab.

Mate, i dont know if you know this, but literally Voruna has a passive that makes her immune to all statuses, including single elements, and your saying single element immunity is too strong.....bruh

[Okaazkul]

Il y a 16 heures, (XBOX)AudiGuard20 a dit :

Mate, i dont know if you know this, but literally Voruna has a passive that makes her immune to all statuses, including single elements, and your saying single element immunity is too strong.....bruh

Immune to status effect, not damage. Not the same thing.

[Exoni_Prime]

On 2024-04-14 at 11:11 PM, (XBOX)AudiGuard20 said:

Passive: there 2 i thought of that would make sense for Chroma but they may be a little bit too much, so im just gonna list them. The passive where the element is selected by emissive remains

Chroma is immune (or highly resistant depending how strong this is) to the singular elements.

OR

Chroma has a mini conditional overload passive for his weapons. This conditional overload effect is multiplicative, (so basically old condition overload) for all your weapons capping out at lets say 75%.

 

I will admit, his current passive is lacking. However, I don't agree with either suggested change, I'll explain why. But first.

22 hours ago, Okaazkul said:

Immune to status effect, not damage. Not the same thing.

It clearly says immune to the singular elements. Never said status immune and can be taken as damage immune. Sort of similar to how people suggested frost would be cold immune/resistant and ember heat immune/resistant. 

It is possible to become damage immune to certain status/ips types which is why I point this out. I'm taking their word for what it's worth as I would anyone else.

back to the passive.

On 2024-04-14 at 11:11 PM, (XBOX)AudiGuard20 said:

Chroma is immune (or highly resistant depending how strong this is) to the singular elements.

 

This is relatively pointless due to the lack of enemy variety in singular elementals, and he already has a defensive buff to counteract those elements.

On 2024-04-14 at 11:11 PM, (XBOX)AudiGuard20 said:

Chroma has a mini conditional overload passive for his weapons. This conditional overload effect is multiplicative, (so basically old condition overload) for all your weapons capping out at let's say 75%.

 

Or just make vex armor multiplicative as it should've been and instead remove the single element triple dip bug. Could've saved them a lot of time.

 

Chroma's passive needs to be something that generally helps out towards the gameplay he provides and serve a use that is realistic in day-to-day gameplay. With that said, I suggest that his passive allows him to have faster casting speed and a chance to regenerate a percentage of health over time while being damaged. 

On 2024-04-14 at 11:11 PM, (XBOX)AudiGuard20 said:

Chroma can no longer switch between the elements. Now, Chroma will breathe a large breath at the enemies that last a short duration (like 1-3 seconds, unscalable by anything). In this state, Chroma is invulnerable, will be able to move but slow, and will proc all 4 single elements onto enemies in range of the breath.

 

I think the removal of chroma being able to switch between elements shows a lack of understanding as to why the mechanic is there, and in general of how his kit works in tandem. Not to mention the suggested change is nullified by a secondary weapon with high enough status and secondary encumber.

I suggest spectral scream should be changed to be able to be active without removing chroma's weapons or mobility and instead applies a damage vulnerability to the elemental type enemies get hit by, and said elemental applies vulnerability to elementals it would otherwise combine into (example, heat would appply a vulnerability to heat, radiation, gas, and blast damage). It will also chain to enemies nearby in a range from the primary enemy depending on chroma's range (like atomos).

I also suggest that his elemental changing needs to be more fluid and should be able to update his abilities whenever it is changed (for elemental ward allows to recast the ability instead, that way it doesn't interfere with the current element of choice).

Afterburner (his augment if you didn't know about and I wouldn't blame you for because of how poor it is in execution) needs to be changed to work like lavos' buff but weaker and with a longer duration, matching other base elemental buff augments like shock trooper, freeze force, etc.

On 2024-04-14 at 11:11 PM, (XBOX)AudiGuard20 said:

Second Ability: Elemental Ward 

The same functionality, but the buffs are slightly different. I also thought it would be cool to incorporate the archon mods bonuses onto the ability (some of them at least)

Cold: The same, no changes

Heat: 

Still has health, and health regeneration. On top of that, heat will be applied twice. 

Electricity:

Increased shields, faster recharge rate and lower delay, and still get the arc discharge. Now, electric status effect will grant energy regeneration.

Toxin:

Increase reload speed, fire rate, attack speed. Being surrounded by a toxin aura, enemies who get close will be dealt with a toxin proc , similar to the toxic infested eximus (forgot what they're called)

These ideas are basically to encourage different builds of chroma with different elements.

 

I agree, cold is fine where it's at.

Heat change is redundant as heat ward's range isn't good enough where heat application would matter. Instead should also apply heat proc chance when chroma is hit.

electricity change is good.

toxin fire rate buff shouldn't be added. There's a reason people complain about haste motes. attack speed however I agree with. Holster damage too needs to be replaced. Instead will increase sprint/walking speed and enemies hit by the toxin proc have a chance to spread status.

On 2024-04-14 at 11:11 PM, (XBOX)AudiGuard20 said:

Third Ability: Vex Armor

Remain the same, the buff to it really helped with sustaining the Damage and Armor buffs.

 

It needs to be multiplicative or needs to work as a bane multiplier (same for eclipse on mirage wtf) seriously though he got gutted by a change because of a bugged interaction that literally wasn't even because of the multiplicative buff.

De acts like we don't have roar Saryn running around with cloud contagion nuking entire rooms but at the same time think it's bad design for chroma to be a reasonable weapons platform.

 

On 2024-04-14 at 11:11 PM, (XBOX)AudiGuard20 said:

Fourth Ability: Effigy

Chroma still sheds its pelt. But now, Chroma will be faster and more maneuverable and its pelt will follow you like a turret (behind or around, above, etc. ). While in the turret, the pelt will have an energy drain (but lower than before) and enemies will be focused on the pelt more than you. During this state, the pelt will also periodically cast spectral scream and breathe the elements onto the enemies and casting elemental ward with a random element and give the buff to chroma (at a diminished form) for a certain duration. Optionally, dont know if this is consider too strong, but Chroma has increased status damage.

 

Effigy already has a miniscule health value so why even bother with energy drain?

Either have an energy drain with damage impunity or give it a health bar that scales with enemy level and mods.

You can easily just make effigy like page flight but a tad bit stronger since it's an ultimate then have it apply the element chroma chose while having said element it attacks with apply without needing to recast the ability.

Also, casting speed of his blind needs to be hastened.

The armor removal and speed increase also needs to be removed and replaced with effigy acting as an extra companion (sentinel) being near chroma and helping with aggro/cc/damage amplification clear. 

Players are probably going to scream at me for suggesting effigy also gives status amplification, but Sevagoth works the same way with his shadow, and both do not stack. With that said, when I look at effigy and what it tries to do it only makes sense to have it become a helpful ally and more importantly make players have a choice when it comes to helminth.

 

Anyway. Suggested changes are fine for the most part but a lot of them don't tackle the issues that chroma has. 

[Nerthiril]

On 2024-04-17 at 12:01 PM, Exoni_Prime said:

I think the removal of chroma being able to switch between elements shows a lack of understanding as to why the mechanic is there, and in general of how his kit works in tandem. Not to mention the suggested change is nullified by a secondary weapon with high enough status and secondary encumber.

Not just this. Voruna exists. The suggested change would just be a worse voruna 2. As you can easily spread status upon enemy death to groups while still chaining abilities together instead of this new chroma ability forcing you to stop for a moment.

On 2024-04-17 at 12:01 PM, Exoni_Prime said:

I agree, cold is fine where it's at.

Heat change is redundant as heat ward's range isn't good enough where heat application would matter. Instead should also apply heat proc chance when chroma is hit.

electricity change is good.

toxin fire rate buff shouldn't be added. There's a reason people complain about haste motes. attack speed however I agree with. Holster damage too needs to be replaced. Instead will increase sprint/walking speed and enemies hit by the toxin proc have a chance to spread status.

I am 50/50 on cold. I feel like it should be a lower but multiplicative bonus to armor or VA needs to be multiplicative because cold at the moment is only useful when you are trying to stack Scorn as when you got 1200%+ additive armor. The 400% isn’t going to do much.

Agree on heat and electric,

100% agree on toxin.

On 2024-04-17 at 12:01 PM, Exoni_Prime said:

It needs to be multiplicative or needs to work as a bane multiplier (same for eclipse on mirage wtf) seriously though he got gutted by a change because of a bugged interaction that literally wasn't even because of the multiplicative buff.

De acts like we don't have roar Saryn running around with cloud contagion nuking entire rooms but at the same time think it's bad design for chroma to be a reasonable weapons platform.

This tbh. Mirage mains getting their change slightly reverted now made chroma the worst damage buff on top of being the hardest to stack (being unable to obtain stacks currently unless they get damaged to hp) at least previous eclipse was unreliable. (Roar is just bs as it’s a single button press for one of the highest buffs in the game). chroma is only really good now for nieche things like Grendel runs (pair with harrow for inf energy). Or to use stuff like shotgun vandetta/longbow sharpshot/multiplicative gunCO. Which sure I like being able to use those stuff effectively. But there is no need to spread VA to Allies because it’s guaranteed they are using primary merci/serration/deadhead so the buff is just meh to not needed.

On 2024-04-17 at 12:01 PM, Exoni_Prime said:

Effigy already has a miniscule health value so why even bother with energy drain?

Either have an energy drain with damage impunity or give it a health bar that scales with enemy level and mods.

You can easily just make effigy like page flight but a tad bit stronger since it's an ultimate then have it apply the element chroma chose while having said element it attacks with apply without needing to recast the ability.

Also, casting speed of his blind needs to be hastened.

The armor removal and speed increase also needs to be removed and replaced with effigy acting as an extra companion (sentinel) being near chroma and helping with aggro/cc/damage amplification clear. 

Players are probably going to scream at me for suggesting effigy also gives status amplification, but Sevagoth works the same way with his shadow, and both do not stack. With that said, when I look at effigy and what it tries to do it only makes sense to have it become a helpful ally and more importantly make players have a choice when it comes to helminth.

 

Anyway. Suggested changes are fine for the most part but a lot of them don't tackle the issues that chroma has. 

Honestly they should get rid of Effegy. It gives you an armor decrease in exchange for movespeed… on a tank frame. On top of Effegy being an energy hog and dealing no damage. I do like the suggested change but feel like chroma would benefit a lot more if we just threw it out like hydroid’s puddle. Not sure if it is possible due to being a part of their identity, but if not throw out completely, just completely change how it works.