Dante changes i'd like to see

[AGgammer]

This is just a summary of my thoughts after playing Dante since release, it is not focused on just the nerfs but rather his entire kit

 

Noctua

• Fix mods being inconsistent (hornet strike not affecting fragments, galvanized shot not being affected with strength etc)
• Reduce visual effects of the projectile hitting enemies/surfaces
  Reasoning: Both Noctua and Grimoire share this problem, your shots hitting a target cause a small explosion that does no damage, for weapons that deal no AOE and require precision hits to deal proper damage (or stacking up fire rate which in turn causes more explosions) having the enemy covered in a visual clutter does not help how they are handled, while you can go around the problem by using dark energy colours, that is simply going around the problem of misleading and harmful visual design
• Give it the 1/2 exilus or tome specific mod slots
  Reasoning: Both tomes have a problem of not being able to be a useful weapon while also utilising the weapon specific gimmick, Noctua especially suffers from the fact that it's gimmick is being able to run more than 2 tome mods, however if you want to actually utilise the passive, wordwarden and noctua as a weapon running more than 1 or 2 mods isn't worth it

Light Verse

• Buff radius is equal to affinity range
• New functionality: Casting increases the duration of all currently active non helminth duration abilities (Triumph/Wordwarden/Pageflight) by 2 seconds, affected by duration
  Reasoning: Light Verse currently has no use other than being filler for Final Verse, although small a simple duration buff/restoration would give it an actual reason to cast it by itself

Dark Verse

No changes, personally it feels decently balanced both as the 25 energy standalone ability as well as the "primer" to tragedy, the ability it directly combos with

Final Verse

• New functionality: If either Dark Verse or Light Verse have been subsumed off, you can hold down the ability to mimic casting the removed ability for 50 energy, doing so will play the ability animation with faded out effects and fill the relevant page but not provide the ability's effects
  Reasoning: Currently if you want to use helminth you only have 1 real option, to remove the SIGNATURE EXALTED WEAPON, while Noctua (even in its current state) is good it's still better to lose 1 weapon over 4 core abilities. The compromise of having to use 50 energy over the normal 25 for the missing combo piece should be enough to compensate having a helminth specific interaction

Triumph

• Buff radius is equal to affinity range

Wordwarden

• Allow all secondary mods to affect it (most importantly multishot and fire rate) but not secondary/weapon specific buffs (such as arcane velocity)
• Allow canticles equipped to be used by wordwarden, all instances (noctua and all wordwarden copies caused by the ability) share the same tagging (so you cant 24% chance at a universal orb with khra canticle for example)
  Reasoning: Both Noctua and Wordwarden share the same mod config, having mods that work on one while not working on the other creates conflicts of interests, moreover allowing the support focused canticles to be used would give the ability more use other than being a half decent primer
• Potentially lower damage to 35-40% if both changes are implemented

Pageflight

• Upon running out of their duration the paragrimms (visually) fly back to Dante
  Reasoning: Just a small qol feature to better tell when their duration runs out

Tragedy

• Range reduced from 30m to 25m
• Ability is split between 2 parts: LOS and Universal (aka all enemies in range outside of LOS)
• Universal:

1. Applies the current "status detonation" mechanic to all enemies for 2x the damage (scales with strength)
2. Enemies hit by Dark verse, Noctua or Wordwarden are marked and will receive 3x the damage (scales with strength)

• LOS:

1. Automatically applies the mark to enemies (aka enemies in range will be dealt 3x the damage regardless of whether they were hit with Dante's other abilities or not)
2. Raw damage is reduced from 6.5k slash damage to 4k with a guaranteed slash proc (applied after the status detonation happens)
   Reasoning: Allows tragedy to fulfill it's role as a status-speed up without having to worry about randomly nuking enemies across the whole tileset or randomly nuking low level missions

Edited April 24 by AGgammer

[NemiTheNem]

Fairly well thought put. Don't think they'd go for the 3x multiplier.
 

I would also like to add that Wordwarden should be moved back slightly  and maybe up as a qol. I like your proposed change to pageflight, so making wordwarden more visible is also good; I've been using it as a timer for pageflight and being able to more clearly see it would be great.

[Nero.DMC]

Sadly for everyone they are not going to change Dante, they keep speaking about "fixing LoS" they dont seem to get how much that sucks on abilities like tragedy

[David-5959]

7 hours ago, Nero.DMC said:

Sadly for everyone they are not going to change Dante, they keep speaking about "fixing LoS" they dont seem to get how much that sucks on abilities like tragedy

I'm really disappointed and annoyed with how they handled this situation. I'm even more annoyed that the things they announced in the devstream sound nice, but I'm not going to play the game anymore until they remove LoS on Tragedy. What else can I do to make my dissatisfaction known, except not playing and not giving them money? Giving them possible solutions or just complaining on the forum didn't do anything, and it's sad how the first week of release was the most fun I ever had with a Frame and the Game. The worst thing is, I still really want to play, but I won't.

And the topic is basically dead anyway, most people understandably stopped complaining and giving solutions because you can write the same thing just so many times. And on Reddit, if you even mention that Dante still plays badly, you just get downvoted because now he's 'good' again and they 'fixed' LoS.

Edited April 27 by David-5959
Changed removing LoS on Dante to Tragedy because obviously Dark Verse can keep LoS

[WindShadow970]

On 2024-04-24 at 10:06 PM, AGgammer said:

Tragedy

• Range reduced from 30m to 25m

Agreed

On 2024-04-24 at 10:06 PM, AGgammer said:

• Ability is split between 2 parts: LOS and Universal (aka all enemies in range outside of LOS)
• Universal:

1. Applies the current "status detonation" mechanic to all enemies for 2x the damage (scales with strength)
2. Enemies hit by Dark verse, Noctua or Wordwarden are marked and will receive 3x the damage (scales with strength)

• LOS:

1. Automatically applies the mark to enemies (aka enemies in range will be dealt 3x the damage regardless of whether they were hit with Dante's other abilities or not)
2. Raw damage is reduced from 6.5k slash damage to 4k with a guaranteed slash proc (applied after the status detonation happens)
   Reasoning: Allows tragedy to fulfill it's role as a status-speed up without having to worry about randomly nuking enemies across the whole tileset or randomly nuking low level missions

Don't agree, this needlessly overcomplicates the ability, remove the base damage entirely and fully lean on the status detonation, the base damage does nothing in later stages of the game and makes a joke of lower levels i.e it has the same properties of old Soundquake. At that stage you can now remove the Tragedy LoS check.

 

On 2024-04-24 at 10:06 PM, AGgammer said:

Wordwarden

• Allow all secondary mods to affect it (most importantly multishot and fire rate)

Multishot I agree but fire rate is determined by whatever weapon you have in hand. I find that to be interesting because you can have sub par fire rate on Noctua but have another weapon with very high fire rate/tick rate/attack speed and Word Warden goes on a machine gun spree.

 

On 2024-04-24 at 10:06 PM, AGgammer said:

Allow canticles equipped to be used by wordwarden, all instances (noctua and all wordwarden copies caused by the ability) share the same tagging (so you cant 24% chance at a universal orb with khra canticle for example)

Agreed

On 2024-04-24 at 10:06 PM, AGgammer said:

Final Verse

• New functionality: If either Dark Verse or Light Verse have been subsumed off, you can hold down the ability to mimic casting the removed ability for 50 energy, doing so will play the ability animation with faded out effects and fill the relevant page but not provide the ability's effects
  Reasoning: Currently if you want to use helminth you only have 1 real option, to remove the SIGNATURE EXALTED WEAPON, while Noctua (even in its current state) is good it's still better to lose 1 weapon over 4 core abilities. The compromise of having to use 50 energy over the normal 25 for the missing combo piece should be enough to compensate having a helminth specific interaction

I have a personal hatred of the Helminth system so I'm happy Dante has no "easy subsume slot" and the opportunity cost of subsuming is heavy. I want it to stay that way, Helminth was a mistake anyway.

On 2024-04-24 at 10:06 PM, AGgammer said:

Light Verse

• Buff radius is equal to affinity range
• New functionality: Casting increases the duration of all currently active non helminth duration abilities (Triumph/Wordwarden/Pageflight) by 2 seconds, affected by duration
  Reasoning: Light Verse currently has no use other than being filler for Final Verse, although small a simple duration buff/restoration would give it an actual reason to cast it by itself

The heal just doesn't work right? It kinda feels tacked on, I don't know if a selfish duration increase is the move on a support skewed ability but yeah something else is needed there.

On 2024-04-24 at 10:06 PM, AGgammer said:

Noctua

On 2024-04-24 at 10:06 PM, AGgammer said:

galvanized shot not being affected with strength etc)

This would have to be a fix for all exalted weapons really, but yeah it is offputting that a status focused frame can't make proper use of a status focused mod on their signature weapon.

On 2024-04-24 at 10:06 PM, AGgammer said:

your shots hitting a target cause a small explosion that does no damage, for weapons that deal no AOE and require precision hits to deal proper damage (or stacking up fire rate which in turn causes more explosions) having the enemy covered in a visual clutter does not help how they are handled, while you can go around the problem by using dark energy colours, that is simply going around the problem of misleading and harmful visual design

Agreed that the visual clutter on-hit could use a toning down, also please adjust the aiming reticle it's hard to aim when your reticle can blend in with the vibrantly coloured environments of Warframe.

On 2024-04-24 at 10:06 PM, AGgammer said:

Both tomes have a problem of not being able to be a useful weapon while also utilising the weapon specific gimmick

I'm actually a fan of that opportunity cost to modding because it ends up being a loadout wide consideration, utility should come at a cost to offensive power it then falls on the player to make the choice on the balance between the two facets. It's modding choice done right imo.

[Nero.DMC]

11 hours ago, David-5959 said:

I'm really disappointed and annoyed with how they handled this situation. I'm even more annoyed that the things they announced in the devstream sound nice, but I'm not going to play the game anymore until they remove LoS on Tragedy. What else can I do to make my dissatisfaction known, except not playing and not giving them money? Giving them possible solutions or just complaining on the forum didn't do anything, and it's sad how the first week of release was the most fun I ever had with a Frame and the Game. The worst thing is, I still really want to play, but I won't.

And the topic is basically dead anyway, most people understandably stopped complaining and giving solutions because you can write the same thing just so many times. And on Reddit, if you even mention that Dante still plays badly, you just get downvoted because now he's 'good' again and they 'fixed' LoS.

yep, it sucks, i decided to stop purchasing stuff as well, doubt we are a sufficient amount to make them reconsider, but we can't do anything else tbh, i am not exited about the new frame anyway, feels like its hard to get exited about the new stuff at least for me.