Lore Discussion: The Fallen Empire Theory

[Sixty5]

Wall of lore discussing text coming your way, skip to the bottom for the gist of it if you are lazy, but if the Lore of Warframe interests you at all I'd seriously recommend you read it all.

 

With the recent additions in real Lore to the game through the addition of the codex, it has become possible to start to piece together the backstory of what actually happened to the Orokin, and what the Origin of the Tenno as well as the other factions currently present in the game. The main information that is available comes from the Stalker's, and Excalibur's Codex entries, I'll add both below. If you have not yet scanned the Stalker, and wish to avoid spoilers, stop readying now.

 

 

 

 

In the Stalkers Codex entry, it details his story, but also gives clues to what happened to the Orokin. It states that after defeating the Sentients in the Great War, the Tenno turned upon the Orokin and slaughtered them all. However it also indicates that said attack was premeditated, referencing how the Tenno were "waiting" given that Tenno numbers seem to be fairly high, and that most, or all, of the Tenno were in on it, given how effective the betrayal was.

 

But why would the Tenno kill the Orokin? From what we see the Tenno are meant to be the honourable keepers of balance. The foe they were made to fight had been beaten, and it would have been a time of peace, flourishing under the Orokin, wouldn't it?

Not necessarily. In the passage from the Stalker the Orokin Empire is referenced, and in most cases a technologically superior race does not rule via peaceful methods. Futhermore if you look to the Corrupted, the enemies you see have been controlled by the "Neural Sentry" an Orokin Construct.

 

Hmm, mind control and ruling an Empire, it doesn't paint the Orokin in the best light. What if the Tenno, trained as they were came to the conclusion that their Orokin overlords were messing up the Balance they were meant to keep? Well in that case I'd imagine that they'd do what Tenno do best, and slaughter them all. Or maybe the Tenno needed a little push to come to this conclusion, perhaps one of the Orokin who had come to the same conclusion, free of control, decided that it was time for things to change. Said person would likely have escaped death via Tenno blades, and given the longevity of the Stalker, it isn't much of a stretch to say that said individual is still alive and well. But who could it be? Ladies and Gentlemen, I give you the Lotus, last surviving member of the Orokin, or at least a remnant from that age.

 

This in turn brings up another point, who were the ones enslaved by the Orokin? Well if you look at who we fight now you can get a fair idea. The Grineer are heavily militaristic, generations of clones, perhaps from the remnants of a fighting force broken during the great war, and the Corpus, merchants with a penchant for Orokin artefacts as well as the use of Indoctrination temples.

Furthermore given that in times of revolution the body that revolts seeks to dispose fully of their former oppressors, it sort of makes sense that we hear cries of "Death to the Lotus" during missions, especially considering The Lotus had/has the most powerful fighting force in the System under her guidance. Finally it seems likely that the story of the Orokin's slaughter would be remembered by the survivors, given that in most cases it freed them, this seems to be the origin of the Tenno being 'Betrayers' or 'Traitors' in the words of the recently departed Alad V.

 

Next, if you look at the Stalkers point of view of the situation other things become clear. He remains loyal towards the Orokin even now due to his mental conditioning, and in his eyes that means that the members of the Grineer and Corpus are still subservient to the Orokin, and whose members are therefore valuable. Given his lifespan (survived for "ages" whilst the Tenno slept) I'd say that he would be able to accept new people filling roles as they were emptied, but would see the Tenno killing of a Grineer Captain as killing a Captain in the Orokin military.

 

So where does that leave us? Well we have seen that the Orokin aren't exactly angels, in fact they seem like the sort of guys who would unleash something like the Infested upon the system in the hopes of saving their own butts, or perhaps sending their warriors into the Void, damned the consequences, again to try and save themselves. At that point the Tenno, decided that they'd have to go, and one way or another off'd their former masters.

There are many discussions of whether or not the Tenno are good or evil, but from what I can see they are neither. To me it seems the Tenno are simply carrying out their job, to keep the balance in the system, with the Lotus potentially following this path as well, with maybe a little bit of guidance along the way.

 

So what do you think? 

 

Discuss.

[Althix]

Tenno are murderers. cool. i always knew it.

[Sixty5]

Tenno are murderers. cool. i always knew it.

Well considering this...

[Althix]

you know i can't login to WF now because i am on phone. because some funny guy made a java application that ddosing internal network of my company. so i can't login and show my stats.

 

 

after reading excalibur lore and stalker lore i came to conclusion that Tenno were made as tools, to serve only as instruments of destruction. However for some reasons they turned their weapons on their Masters. and so Horus Heresy Orokin downfall has begun.

 

Problem as i see it, what Tenno do now is nothing short but fooling around, casualy killing peeps and clones and zombies left and right. Because in a war first targets are manufacturing facilities and vip persons. Tenno are just killing foot soldiers and breaking some ships. So no real strikes against grineer or corpus.

We must slay Lotus and take command over war operations across solar system. We will win in few days, maximum a week,

Edited November 28, 2013 by Althix

[bejuizb]

My ideas revolved around the fact that the Sentients might have used the Indoctrination techniques learned from the Orokin ("They had turned our weapons, our technology, against us") on the Tenno as a last resort, but the Tenno were too resilient and honour bound to suffer from it. But as the balance shifted, the Tenno started to succumb to the effects of the indoctrination and decided that the Orokin needed to be eliminated in the name of Balance. Then the Tenno put themselves into cryostasis to reawaken when they needed to resotre balance to the system once again. This unnatural desire to maintain balance could also be accounted to the Orokin conditioning of Tenno as a tool to win the Great War. With regards to the Lotus, I consider her to be a Tenno AI responsible to guide the Tenno whenever the balance shifts (in the current timeline, Grineer hold dominance). So the Lotus AI awakens the Tenno to restore the balance. Mind you, how an AI knows when the balance is shifted, I don't know. But I'll be glad to know what you guys think :P

[Sixty5]

-snippety snip-

Pretty much along the same lines.

 

Much as it pains me I will quote the Catalyst "The created will always rebel against their creators" 

 

Animosity will always be built up, no matter how benevolent or controlling an overlord may be.

[Kaian-a-coel]

I personally think that the Lotus is the manifestation of something that was waiting inside the Void and corrupted the tennos.

After our exposition to the Void and without warframes, she was able to directly mind-control us and made us destroy the Orokin after the Sentients were defeated.

Having no further use for us at that time, she put us in cryosleep after wiping our memories.

Millenias later, she awaken us again, poses as "the Lotus" to gain our trust, and proceed into making us do her bidding.

The control wore off with the cryosleep, or it is very costly, or it results in efficiency losses. That should explain why she doesn't use the complete mind control like what would have been necessary to make us betray the Orokin.

 

What is the goal of the Lotus, I do not know, but it doesn't bode well for anyone.

 

That doesn't mean that the others are good people: tennos are greedy and selfish, orokins did unleash the technocyte plague (although at first they used bioengineered "bags of flesh" rather than people), and the stalker is just a raving lunatic who spent millenias sulking alone in a corner of the solar system.

 

TL;DR: If the Void is the Warp of warhammer 40.000, then Lotus is Tzeentch.

[Althix]

oh just don't bring this product of drug addictions to my warframe please.

 

You know what also funny? Stalker described as low Guardian. And Tenno as true badasses. Current Stalker is a tough sob. Why Tenno were ever created then?

 

@Kaian-a-coel.

 

Do not ask which creature screams in the night

Do not ask which creature screams in the night,

Do not question who waits for you in the shadow.

It is my cry that wakes you in the night,

And my body that crouches in the shadow.

I am Tzeentch and you are the puppet

That dances to my tune.

 

No, Lotus is not Tzeentch and Void is not a Warp. Please do not insult me with such ideas.

Edited November 28, 2013 by Althix

[Katakuna]

oh just don't bring this product of drug addictions to my warframe please.

 

You know what also funny? Stalker described as low Guardian. And Tenno as true badasses. Current Stalker is a tough sob. Why Tenno were ever created then?

 

He trained himself to become strong enough to kill us after the fact.

 

He'd be a pretty piss-poor ghost of retribution if he couldn't kill a single Tenno.

[KONAir]

TL;DR: If the Void is the Warp of warhammer 40.000, then Lotus is Tzeentch.

 

Yes, Stalkers entry does sound like a Loyalist would say in Istvaan. We has Space Elf Heresy on top Fall.

for the clueless check Eldar and Horus Heresy: http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Main_Page

[Sixty5]

oh just don't bring this product of drug addictions to my warframe please.

 

You know what also funny? Stalker described as low Guardian. And Tenno as true badasses. Current Stalker is a tough sob. Why Tenno were ever created then?

Stalker lacks creativity. Also he is unflinchingly loyal to the Orokin. Maybe the Sentients true power was to turn the Orokin's indoctrinated units against them, as Bez said above. Meaning that to defeat them the Orokin needed soldiers with free will.

[Kaian-a-coel]

Stalker had EONS of training while we slept like babies. He became stronger while we awoke weaker than ever.

 

I do know that 40k is a crude comparison, but I am with those who believe we were corrupted.

I DO NOT believe, however, that the Sentients were responsibles. This is something else, something we have yet to encounter.

[KONAir]

I do know that 40k is a crude comparison, but I am with those who believe we were corrupted.

 

It is hard not to compare stuff to 40K because "everything sci-fi and fantasy" happened at least once at some point in its 30~ish years of publication.

[Althix]

I like your idea that Lotus is Dr.Evil here. Maybe it is not she but 30 years old beardneck.

 

However from my perspective Lotus is lacking knowledge and experience in military tactics and strategy. She also closing her eyes on slavery problems caused by grineer. If Tenno are UN forces of the galaxy, we are doing horrible at that. Also after last events Tenno are nothing more but cheap @#&*(s, selling their asses to everyone who is willing to pay.

 

So i am still calling for elemination of Lotus. She don't have strenght to rule over Tenno. Weak must be purged.

 

@ Katakuna thing is, he still can't.

Edited November 28, 2013 by Althix

[Sixty5]

I still feel that the Lotus is more sympathetic to our cause. Sure she isn't great at math, but most of what she does helps us.

Or I might be indoctrinated, who knows.

[Katakuna]

@ Katakuna thing is, he still can't.

 

I guess you've been ignoring most of the Stalker threads in GD the past week.

[Kaian-a-coel]

I like your idea that Lotus is Dr.Evil here. Maybe it is not she but 30 years old beardneck.

 

However from my perspective Lotus is lacking knowledge and experience in military tactics and strategy. She also closing her eyes on slavery problems caused by grineer. If Tenno are UN forces of the galaxy, we are doing horrible at that. Also after last events Tenno are nothing more but cheap @#&*(s, selling their asses to everyone who is willing to pay.

 

So i am still calling for elemination of Lotus. She don't have strenght to rule over Tenno. Weak must be purged.

We're talking about an alien intelligence who ordered the slaughter of an entire empire by mind-controlled minions here. So of course slavery problems are ignored. As for why tennos are being cheap mercenaries, I thnk it's because Lotus is trying to re-enact the fall of the orokin, with the Corpus and the Grineer instead of the Orokin and the Sentients. Maybe she has just yet to decide who will play the Orokin and who will get to be the Sentients.

[Sixty5]

I guess you've been ignoring most of the Stalker threads in GD the past week.

He's still not buckshot proof. But saying that he isn't a real threat now is silly.

[matto]

It makes sense.

 

Maybe Tenno were programmed to maintain peace in the Warframe Universe, and, something like I Robot, decided to turn against their creator, maybe led by an entity, an Orokin, greedy for power and influence, who decided to kill all his/her/its kind. Or maybe some Tenno became influent and re-read their rules of being "peace makers" by eliminating what they finally considered as a possible thread, in a preventive way.

 

I see the Stalker as a Tenno who got consumed by his feelings, forgetting the rules that command the Tenno race. Something like a "failure", the worm in the apple, maybe a Tenno who raised to a new level of consciousness. He may have been mentally trained or programmed for this by the Orokin before they got killed so they could find justice by the means of the Stalker. He would be the everlasting revenge, the everlasting threat for us, betrayers (on the Orokin point of view).

 

I think that the Grineer faction is the true resistance, and Corpus the descendants of the Orokin. Those Corpus were probably a kind of elite among the humans, and kept this status as they were controlling some ressources and markets. Grineer were more like laborers, an inferior class controlled by those Corpus (under the Orokin agreement), which would explain why they hate them so bad. This would be the reason why Corpus hate us too, as we killed their kings, those who gave them their position. While Grineer can't forget that we were the "Orokin's dogs", they can't really hate us as we betrayed their tyrant. At the moment, they are seeing us as a mean to get more weapons in a war against Corpus.

Edited November 28, 2013 by matto

[Althix]

I guess you've been ignoring most of the Stalker threads in GD the past week.

Oh yes i saw. But again. Purge the weak.

 

@ sixty5 It is not about math - it is about common sense. Any war starts with saboteurs. Command centers, Manufacture, Weapons, High ranking personnel - these are targets of first few hours in any war. For example Grineer are clones. We must destroy cloning facilities first and strike against foot soldiers second. On each grineer we kill there are another 1-2 ready to fill the ranks. it's like to draw water with strainer. Obvious lack of perspective from Lotus is obvious.

[EDeN153]

All orokin-descended beings are immune the neural sentry.

[Sixty5]

All very good points there, though the Stalker is confirmed to not be Tenno.

[Gravefire]

She isn't great at knowing which enemy type it is either.

[Sixty5]

Oh yes i saw. But again. Purge the weak.

 

@ sixty5 It is not about math - it is about common sense. Any war starts with saboteurs. Command centers, Manufacture, Weapons, High ranking personnel - these are targets of first few hours in any war. For example Grineer are clones. We must destroy cloning facilities first and strike against foot soldiers second. On each grineer we kill there are another 1-2 ready to fill the ranks. it's like to draw water with strainer. Obvious lack of perspective from Lotus is obvious.

We aren't quite equipped for an all out war. What we are doing now is like pruning a tree so it keeps its shape.

And by bad at math I was referencing how her calculations are always off in mdef missions.

[matto]

All very good points there, though the Stalker is confirmed to not be Tenno.

 

He is confirmed to be a "low Guardian" or something like this. He calls us "Tenno" and doesn't include himself in this race.

 

But we don't know who are those "low Guardians" and what makes us Tenno. Maybe he was a failure who couldn't get the Tenno status, and finally became a low Guardian. He was probably trained and made for being a Tenno, but couldn't complete it as he is just too much controlled by his own feelings.

Edited November 28, 2013 by matto