Lotus vs Mara Sov(Destiny 2) who would win?

[AzothWho]

As a fan of both games I'm of the mind that a Teno could hands down beat a single Guardian.  If any thing it would take a raid team of Guardians to make it a fair fight against a Teno.  Even then it would be a hard pressed fight for their fire team.

 

On the other hand I don't think I've ever seen a post putting Mara Sov against Lotus.  What would happen if their respective space mum's duked it out? Who do you think would win?

Edited June 3 by AzothWho

[Loza03]

Not actually entirely clear. Neither character is exactly known for their direct combat prowess.  I think in a direct fight it'd go to Lotus just because of her adaptational abilities (she presumably has the same adaptation powers as every other sentient) but that's not fair, because neither character really does that. They're both schemers. So lets examine their intelligences and their resources - but we're not counting Auxillary forces in the form of in-setting allies, because that goes into also analysing, like,  Cabal vs Grineer.

 

Mara is incredibly smart, and most of all forward-thinking. Mara can, and has, made schemes that only came out millions of years in the future (she's OLD thanks to some time dilation shenanigans). Mara's also got better access to extradimensional space, via the Leylines and limited access to the Ascendant Realm too. She's well versed in her own setting's magic system, which is a huge upside. As of the Final Shape, she also has much fewer enemies actively trying to fight back in a system that's only really a couple centuries out from getting blessed with prosperity on every major celestial body so her materiel is probably better off too - she has built a fleet before, and can again.

However, Mara is also Arrogant to a fault and this has gotten her into trouble repeatedly. Usually in respects of "Mara has a plan, and didn't think that anyone else was clever enough to think of her plan and thus didn't think anyone had a counter to it or would even build their plan around her plan. She is wrong" I don't know the exact percentages, but I think about half her plot points involve something to this effect eventually, though granted plenty of those are specifically Savathun out-tangoing her. And Savathun is basically the cleverest person in that setting. Anyway - Mara also may have more materiel than Lotus, but Lotus's materiel is called the Tenno. Mara has the Techeuns who are excellent support, but aren't regularly shown squaring up, and she has the Corsairs who, bless them, are hilariously outgunned by the Tenno. And that's not counting that most of them are relatively speaking, rookies, since Mara sacrificed most of her veterans back in the taken king. I mean, lets face it - when was the last time in Destiny that 'Don't worry, the Corsairs will handle it!' was said. Caitl's Cabal, other guardians and even ragtag crew of Eliksni have been more reliable.

Conclusion - Mara is a schemer, who lays her plans ahead of her, which guarentee her victory so long as nobody interferes, but if someone does, she stumbles.

 

Ok, what about the Lotus?

 

The Lotus is, honestly, not as clever as Mara. The Lotus mostly handles problems by pointing the Tenno at them. And in terms of schemes, she's relatively young by sentient standards, and some of her biggest heists were done with planning help from others. However, the Lotus is also likely more raw intelligent. After all - she's a literal living supercomputer. She's the Tenno Co-Ordinator, and that does involve processing multiple missions simultaneously, with no loss of focus or accuracy, and with a surprising capacity to improvise. This also means that she has more-or-less full command over her settings tech - if she can get a signal to it, she can either hack it or subvert it. And Warframe-Era tech rivals the Traveller in terms of raw power. The Orokin have achieved similar feats to the big old ball after all, including the specific feat of making Venus a garden world. Of course, all that was when the Orokin were a united front - all modern tech in Warframe's setting is fractured, usually meaning that Lotus has to send someone to carry a connection point in directly. In terms of military might, we don't know if the Lotus held on to that Murex she carjacked and by extension, the Sentients inside. She was, after all, half-feral the whole time. However, she does have access to the Tenno... and the Operatives. The latter who we mostly meet by virtue of them having to say "Mum come pick me up, I'm scared" because they did a mission all by themselves and just became a Rescue or Sortie defense objective. But she does have them.

On the other hand, Lotus's straightforwardness means she's slow on the uptake for esoteric combat strategies. She didn't believe in the Man in the Wall for a while, and as far as we can tell, has entirely deferred to other sources for combating it. She's now aware of it - but may also have made a deal with the Entity. Not necessarily relevant to this discussion, but it leaves her vulnerable to Mara's favourite tactic of using the Leylines and the Ascendant plane. She's also easy to deceive if you can keep the information from her, which is likely the Wattsonian reason why so much of Warframe's early missons were just about gathering intel. Spy, capture, interception and by proxy rescue (i.e. saving someone with valuable intel). And Mara is the queen of keeping secrets, especially when she can just toss them into extradimensional space Lotus has no real means to access - at least not without capturing a Techeun... who can also hide in extradimensional space.

(also Lotus can technically be hacked. But the only people who did that were an Orokin with access to another Sentient, so I don't think that's a relevant weakness here)

 

Conclusion: The Lotus is a well-aimed sledgehammer - a lot of calcualation, risk assessment and targeting, followed by an enormous, incredibly effective strike that cripples the target. But if denied her variables for calculation, she doesn't have another move.

 

Ok, with all that in mind, I think that it'd probably be a stalemate, with Mara somewhat more likely to take it. Though I don't think it's a sure thing. In effect, Lotus has the resources and tactics to smash through all of Mara's carefully laid plans - Lotus is extremely capable at targeting weak points in enemy command structures and plans and then hitting them so hard their plans just collapse. That's her whole deal - she was literally born to do that. After all, that was how she was supposed to destroy the Tenno. Mara just doesn't have the firepower to do anything to the Lotus, and her clever schemes are pointless if Lotus can get intel. However, Mara can work around the Lotus using the Leylines. The Lotus can't run raids to capture intel if all the Intel is hidden in a dimension she can't access.

In conclusion. At first, Lotus has a big chance of winning early 'game' - if Lotus can get her intel and mobilise the Tenno before Mara realises the danger, well, Lotus wins. Mara just doesn't have the military strength to fend off the Tenno. But Lotus chances fall off swiftly at first, before plataeuing, as Mara realises that the Leylines are inaccessible to her enemy and moves her operations to there and to hidden safe zones across the material connected by those Leylines, as Lotus keeps poking and prodding and analysing the actions of her enemy. At that point, it's a race against time until Mara can actualise a plan to deal with the Lotus, without showing her hand and putting herself in a vulnerable position for Lotus to capitalise. But that's a long-term game, with both sides having trouble making headway until then, and it may ultimately not happen.

[Prexades]

I don't know Mara Sov and have stopped Destiny 2 shortly after its release. But in regards of a fight with the Lotus I would guess that even an attempt to harm the Lotus would spark retribution on an unholy scale. I wouldn't put it past the Tenno to seek out this Mara Sov around multiple alternate dimensions just to kill her over and over again if she harmed the Lotus.

[_Eclips3_]

On 2024-06-14 at 12:16 PM, Prexades said:

I don't know Mara Sov and have stopped Destiny 2 shortly after its release. But in regards of a fight with the Lotus I would guess that even an attempt to harm the Lotus would spark retribution on an unholy scale. I wouldn't put it past the Tenno to seek out this Mara Sov around multiple alternate dimensions just to kill her over and over again if she harmed the Lotus.

>"Who would win, Mara or Lotus?"
> Prexades: "Tenno"

Yeah no I think in a battle with Lotus vs Mara, Kung Fu Panda will win /s