Jade and Archwing Controls

[Talevon]

DE, it's time to talk about archwing controls and key rebinds.  I just got done doing a bit of testing to confirm all of this, so here we go.

Jade doesn't respect non-default archwing key binds at all while her 4 is active.  She should handle like archwing or Titania but currently doesn't, see below.

When the following default keybinds are set:

Archwing Move Up = Space
Archwing Move Down = Ctrl

The following behavior occurs:

Archwing: Moves up with Space, down with Ctrl
Titania: Moves up with Space, down with Ctrl
Jade: Moves up with Space, down with Ctrl
Veilbreaker Jetpack: Can fly using Space

The above is all fine.  So if you're using default keybinds, you don't notice a problem.

But, let's say I were to flip the archwing controls around because I want them to be inverted:

Archwing Move Up = Ctrl
Archwing Move Down = Space

The following behavior occurs:

Archwing: Moves down with Space, up with Ctrl  (This is expected)
Titania: Moves down with Space, up with Ctrl  (This is also expected)
Jade: Moves up with Space, down with Ctrl <-- This is a problem
Veilbreaker Jetpack: Literally non-functional <-- This is also a problem

Archwing and Titania work as expected with altered archwing key binds, but Jade's control scheme doesn't respect the archwing key bindings at all and Kahl's jetpack in Veilbreaker missions just ceases to work when changed away from the default archwing key binds, which has been a problem since the Veilbreaker update.

Please fix.

[Karpik]

I also want to rebind her flight to spare mouse buttons and learned that I can't, then google found this thread.

I hate this mode of flying but I really like Jade. 

Fix those keybinds please.

[clxxxvii]

I, too am here, because I would like to rebind arch up and down!

Personally I want to be able to rebind archwing up and down controls to gear/scroll wheel up and gear/scroll wheel down for Jade.

Any rebinds I put into the arch controls don't change the outcome though, and the Ctrl down/space up movements remain, overriding any inputs that I placed.

 

 

[Zolgona]

I have 'C' for Up and 'Space' as Down for all flight controls and this is seriously messing me up...keep flying into ceiling....

[Emwue]

On 2024-06-19 at 3:57 AM, Talevon said:

Jade's control scheme doesn't respect the archwing key bindings at all

That's because DE, for quite unknown reasons, decided that Jade should use "Jump" as going up and "Toggle Crouch" as going down instead the more obvious "move up" and "move down" keybinds for ascending and descending respectively.

Because of that, Jade only seem to react to "move up" and "move down" when you have the default keybind scheme.

[[DE]Momaw]

Can confirm that her movement is bound to Character Jump/Crouch rather than the Archwing Move Up/Move Down controls... We did that because she flies like Hildryn (hovering at a fixed altitude over the floor and Up/Down is worldspace relative)  rather than like Titania does (where your altitude is unconstrained and Up/Down is screenspace relative). Would it be more or less confusing to switch the controls? Bearing in mind that if we did that, because of the difference in axes, when you're looking "down" (with relation to enemies on the floor below you)  pressing "forward" would move you "up" and pressing "down" would make you move "forward". We'll consider the change if enough people want it but it might not be for everybody

Edited Wednesday at 06:28 PM by [DE]Momaw

[Emwue]

3 minutes ago, [DE]Momaw said:

We did that because she flies like Hildryn (...)  rather than like Titania does

Consider this a question of player expectations - the reality is, Titania is way more played than Hildryn and, Aegis Storm is, as far as I know, the most subsumed over ability in Hildryn's kit. It's safe to say that most of your playerbase have simply never interacted with this system, compared to the one that Titania uses. Especially, since the one Titania uses is also the one that Archwings and Kaithes use, so 100% of your playerbase have exposure to that system.

Genuinely, I think this switch should be made, it's one thing that stops me from playing Jade more.

[KLEPTOMUS]

1 hour ago, Emwue said:

Genuinely, I think this switch should be made, it's one thing that stops me from playing Jade more.

I agree.

I have up/down swapped and as Titania is one of my most played frames it's very annoying to play Jade atm., which is a pity as I really like Jade.

[Koalachan]

3 hours ago, [DE]Momaw said:

Can confirm that her movement is bound to Character Jump/Crouch rather than the Archwing Move Up/Move Down controls... We did that because she flies like Hildryn (hovering at a fixed altitude over the floor and Up/Down is worldspace relative)  rather than like Titania does (where your altitude is unconstrained and Up/Down is screenspace relative). Would it be more or less confusing to switch the controls? Bearing in mind that if we did that, because of the difference in axes, when you're looking "down" (with relation to enemies on the floor below you)  pressing "forward" would move you "up" and pressing "down" would make you move "forward". We'll consider the change if enough people want it but it might not be for everybody

Oh god this would be so good. In Archwing and Titania you don't have to use the CTRL and SPACE to actually go up since it works logically. Sure, you can keep looking at something and go down or up with those hotkeys but you don't have to if you don't want to jsut go down and up by looking which is what I bet is what most people intuitivly do. I found it really annoying to discover that Jade actually REQUIRES me to 2 extra hotkeys to move the way I want. Personally I found this a terrible decision and I didn't understand why it was advertised as Archwing controls so I'm glad I found this thread to weigh in.

Ironically... your current Jade implementation and this thread has realised me I CAN use the same hotkey as Crouch for Archwing Down. Just tested in Plains of Eidolon and there is no conflict and works so much nicer that I will actually use it instead of how I used to play Archwing movement (by looking + 4 direction keys). Yes, this suits me a LOT better than CTRL for Archwing which makes me cringe-claw my hand to push down and then I lose access to my fingerkeys. 

BONUS ROUND: As someone who plays Hildryn a lot, I have her Ultimate subsumed away in all loadouts because 
A) except for niche builds it's by far upset by any number of subsumes
B) the movement controls were annoying

EDIT: after reading your comment again I realise you are describing something else entirely. Looking down and pressing forward should never move you up, it should move you down where you are looking at. Pressing the Archwing Down hotkey should move you down. And pressing the 4 directional keys should work in combination with looking LIKE Archwing. Not jsut in the horizontal plane. Basicly it should behave like Archwing entirely I guess is what I am saying which makes it identical to Titania's Razorwing I realise. You're proposing a weird mix of Archwing Maneuvers + something else, I don't think that's better than what it is now at all. 

Edited Wednesday at 10:06 PM by Koalachan
misunderstood post ininitial response

[oswarlan]

Frankly I'd prefer if she just flew like Titania, same for Hildryn. While I'm sure some people enjoy the current flight system... its very clunky for how the game itself actually plays.

[Hexerin]

On 2024-06-26 at 7:11 PM, oswarlan said:

Frankly I'd prefer if she just flew like Titania, same for Hildryn. While I'm sure some people enjoy the current flight system... its very clunky for how the game itself actually plays.

I would agree that Hildryn's Aegis Storm feels super clunky, but Jade's Glory on High feels fine. Which if you think about it, points directly to the issue being how slow Hildryn is. That being said, I would love there to be a toggle in accessibility options to have both of them use Archwing control like Titania though.

[oswarlan]

23 hours ago, Hexerin said:

I would agree that Hildryn's Aegis Storm feels super clunky, but Jade's Glory on High feels fine. Which if you think about it, points directly to the issue being how slow Hildryn is. That being said, I would love there to be a toggle in accessibility options to have both of them use Archwing control like Titania though.

A toggle would be a great solution, that way anyone that does like this current system can use it. Im sure theres some monster out there that would use the jade/hildryn system on titania.