Jade eximus sucks because of the intention implementing them.

[RootyTootyAimAnShooty]

6 hours ago, trst said:

But nothing about them "denies" gameplay any more than regular enemies already do. It has always been the case that casting anything while standing still is a risk when enemies are dealing any notable damage. Plus most effects, including every Eximus one, is avoiding by just moving forward or rolling once.

If anything these effects add gameplay by incentivizing different options and playstyles.

So, you're saying if it gets to a point where frames can't cast skills without being bombarded by AoE effects... that would all be fine and dandy? Because that's where my concern lay, and I didn't say we were there yet.

[kuciol]

15 minutes ago, RootyTootyAimAnShooty said:

So, you're saying if it gets to a point where frames can't cast skills without being bombarded by AoE effects... that would all be fine and dandy? Because that's where my concern lay, and I didn't say we were there yet.

That means they do content they are not ready to do yet and should get their asses handed to them. So yes its fine and dandy.

[RootyTootyAimAnShooty]

15 minutes ago, kuciol said:

That means they do content they are not ready to do yet and should get their asses handed to them. So yes its fine and dandy.

Warframes don't choose the content they do, mate.

[kuciol]

5 minutes ago, RootyTootyAimAnShooty said:

Warframes don't choose the content they do, mate.

It does, all the time in fact. If you are not strong enough get better. 

 

Edit. I read it wrong sorry. They dont but you choose what you bring.

Edited Tuesday at 01:04 AM by kuciol

[RootyTootyAimAnShooty]

7 minutes ago, kuciol said:

It does, all the time in fact. If you are not strong enough get better. 

What does all the time, in fact?

Edit: Okay, that makes sense. But you're kind of proving my point. You acknowlege that being unable to avoid the AoE is bad. You're attributing that to people's skill. I'm just saying I don't want to get to a situation where it's not based on skill.

Edited Tuesday at 01:12 AM by RootyTootyAimAnShooty

[insanitybit]

They were rough at first, they're really not that bad now. They're fairly easy to dodge. I'd like to see a few things change:

1. All defense targets need a complete rework. They need to be targets we can buff, have shield gating, Regen, etc.

2. The Jade Light should be subject to cold/slow effects.

3. You should see some sort of connection between a Jade Light and the Eximus unit that cast it. Just like arbi drones.

(1) was always the case, Jade Light just adds to the pile of reasons. (2) isn't that big of a deal.

Eximus got a nice big nerf with the magnetic changes too so, really, they haven't been this easy since Overguard was added.

 

Edited Tuesday at 01:11 AM by insanitybit

[kuciol]

3 minutes ago, RootyTootyAimAnShooty said:

What does all the time, in fact?

I read it as Warframe, the game not frames as things. But i fail to grasp what you want to tell by that. You are the one that plays, you take what you want so your statement is kinda pointless and has nothing to do with what i said. If player is to weak to play content he has all the power to change loadout, make different build or just play better.

[trst]

47 minutes ago, RootyTootyAimAnShooty said:

So, you're saying if it gets to a point where frames can't cast skills without being bombarded by AoE effects... that would all be fine and dandy? Because that's where my concern lay, and I didn't say we were there yet.

My point is that we've always been in the situation of needing to keep mobile. Eximus effects can't be creeping towards "gameplay denial" when needing to avoid attacks from enemies instead of standing still is something as old as the game. Everything we got is really just more of the same.

All that has really changed over time is that as SP, endurance, and general level increases have became more of the norm we've seen normal enemies creep into the threatening range. But even then being threatened by 1000 cuts vs a literal rocket isn't all that different when they have the same solutions. Move, kill them first, or turn enemy damage off.

[RootyTootyAimAnShooty]

11 minutes ago, kuciol said:

But i fail to grasp what you want to tell by that. You are the one that plays, you take what you want so your statement is kinda pointless and has nothing to do with what i said.

Dude, this is what I said. You are arguing against this point. What is it that you are arguing against?

9 hours ago, RootyTootyAimAnShooty said:

I don't have a problem with the Jade, or any other eximus in general. I am a bit concerned that we seem to be creeping back towards denial of game play rather than making them a dodge and weave challenge.

I was doing some a few missions as Atlas yesterday and the amount of times I got nailed by eximus bubbles that dropped on me every time I did the rumblers skill was crazy. It feels like the game is at critical point for the number of effects you need to avoid and spot. At least they are easier to spot than back in the day with the just area of effect hitting you out of the blue sometimes, but it does feel like it's creeping in that direction.

Not sure I'd say the fact this also stops people just sitting there doing nothing is necessarily a bad thing in itself though.

The entire point I was saying is that right now we're at a critical point where there's so many AoE effects that going beyond this feels like it would be too much. Especially considering the fact that my frames like Atlas are getting nailed every time they do a specific skill and I don't want that to be the norm.

If you're arguing against that, then we have to agree to disagree. You want more of it? Cool. I don't want more effects on screen than we currently have, being middle aged old fart with dwindling reflexes.

2 minutes ago, trst said:

My point is that we've always been in the situation of needing to keep mobile. Eximus effects can't be creeping towards "gameplay denial" when needing to avoid attacks from enemies instead of standing still is something as old as the game. Everything we got is really just more of the same.

All that has really changed over time is that as SP, endurance, and general level increases have became more of the norm we've seen normal enemies creep into the threatening range. But even then being threatened by 1000 cuts vs a literal rocket isn't all that different when they have the same solutions. Move, kill them first, or turn enemy damage off.

Did you even read the last line of what I said then? "Not sure I'd say the fact this also stops people just sitting there doing nothing is necessarily a bad thing in itself though."

I never said it was a bad thing. I said I don't want it to become unavoidable.

Edit: The entire point of this thread is that the OP things the reason they were implemented is bad. I literally said the opposite, that I have no issues with them, I am just concerned we're creeping towards a potential issue in the future.

Edited Tuesday at 01:27 AM by RootyTootyAimAnShooty

[kuciol]

You say there is to many aoe effects, i say kill faster or build tankier. Thats what im arguing.

[RootyTootyAimAnShooty]

Just now, kuciol said:

You say there is to many aoe effects, i say kill faster or build tankier. Thats what im arguing.

Where did I say there are too many effects right now?

[kuciol]

You say we are at critical point so it is to many already. What im saying is as long as we are able to handle it its not an issue. Is there a lot more than a few years ago? Sure but we also got a lot stronger.

Edited Tuesday at 01:40 AM by kuciol

[RootyTootyAimAnShooty]

Just now, kuciol said:

You say we are at critical point so it is to many already. What im saying is as long as we are able to handle it its not an issue. Is there a lot more than a few years ago? Sure but we also got a lot srronger.

I literally just clarified that I didn't believe that to be the case. In the post you replied to. I even italics it at the time to draw attention to me talking about the future.

13 minutes ago, RootyTootyAimAnShooty said:

The entire point I was saying is that right now we're at a critical point where there's so many AoE effects that going beyond this feels like it would be too much.

 

 

[kuciol]

But it wont, not even close. We kill most enemies before they can do any dmg to us. The problem with warframe is that it is to easy until its to hard. You die all the time or not at all. As long as you kill fast enough no amount of aoe has any effect.

[Merkranire]

10 hours ago, RootyTootyAimAnShooty said:

I don't have a problem with the Jade, or any other eximus in general. I am a bit concerned that we seem to be creeping back towards denial of game play rather than making them a dodge and weave challenge.

I was doing some a few missions as Atlas yesterday and the amount of times I got nailed by eximus bubbles that dropped on me every time I did the rumblers skill was crazy. It feels like the game is at critical point for the number of effects you need to avoid and spot. At least they are easier to spot than back in the day with the just area of effect hitting you out of the blue sometimes, but it does feel like it's creeping in that direction.

Not sure I'd say the fact this also stops people just sitting there doing nothing is necessarily a bad thing in itself though.

Were you in SP?

[RootyTootyAimAnShooty]

2 minutes ago, Merkranire said:

Were you in SP?

Nope.

[RootyTootyAimAnShooty]

13 minutes ago, kuciol said:

But it wont, not even close. We kill most enemies before they can do any dmg to us. The problem with warframe is that it is to easy until its to hard. You die all the time or not at all. As long as you kill fast enough no amount of aoe has any effect.

Mate, no offense, but the reason I said we have to agree to disagree on this is that it doesn't matter how many times you say it's just gittin' gud. You can tell me until the cows come home. It doesn't alleviate my fears, because they are based on my gut feeling from playing the game. It's a feeling, just as what you are saying is a feeling. So how about we just agree to disagree.

You won't think it will be an issue, drawing on your years of experience in the game. I think it will, with the same amount of experience in the game. Which is why I said let's agree to disagree, right under the last thing you misquoted me for.

Let's leave it be.

[Merkranire]

3 minutes ago, RootyTootyAimAnShooty said:

Nope.

Hm. I haven’t experienced too many of the new eximus since I’ve not been playing much lately, but if it’s not due to SP’s full spawn modifier throwing everything out of wack, I’m left wondering whether this raises the value of the Natural Talent mod, or whether it’s meant to make players a little more considerate of when and where they cast their abilities that innately lock them in place (which has always been a risk factor, just made more apparent now).

I remember the old eximus designed like energy drain, and it feels like DE are trying to straddle that line between the player being completely unaware of what’s happening, and being made aware and able to make judgement calls accordingly. Denial of gameplay seems a big call to make

[RootyTootyAimAnShooty]

2 minutes ago, Merkranire said:

Hm. I haven’t experienced too many of the new eximus since I’ve not been playing much lately, but if it’s not due to SP’s full spawn modifier throwing everything out of wack, I’m left wondering whether this raises the value of the Natural Talent mod, or whether it’s meant to make players a little more considerate of when and where they cast their abilities that innately lock them in place (which has always been a risk factor, just made more apparent now).

I remember the old eximus designed like energy drain, and it feels like DE are trying to straddle that line between the player being completely unaware of what’s happening, and being made aware and able to make judgement calls accordingly. Denial of gameplay seems a big call to make

The incident was just an anecdote that made me go, "Blimey!", but I tend to take steel path a lot more cheesily. I don't really take frames that require many stationary skills. I guess the only exception to that would be Zephyr and occasionally Gara, but it's been a hot minute for me as well.

Personally I've not noticed a difference between the two, but I'm also not pushing for 40 rounds on a steel path map. Where I've mostly noticed it is once you get past rotation B on maps that are constant spawn. Survival and Interception are the two where I've really noticed just the sheer amount of effects on the ground makes me really think hard about cast times. Infested get pretty bad, corrupted are the worst. But ironicallly, kuva grineer are just a piece of piddle on the Zariman at 4 times the level of the Atlas incident.

It just seems all over the place.

Like I said above, it's doable. Even the Atlas incident wasn't an issue, because I tend to have plenty of health and energy management. But it was getting to "Oh ffs" territory when I was getting nailed by an AoE every time I pressed 4. It made me not want to play that frame in more difficult circumstances because of it.

[kuciol]

8 minutes ago, RootyTootyAimAnShooty said:

Mate, no offense, but the reason I said we have to agree to disagree on this is that it doesn't matter how many times you say it's just gittin' gud. You can tell me until the cows come home. It doesn't alleviate my fears, because they are based on my gut feeling from playing the game. It's a feeling, just as what you are saying is a feeling. So how about we just agree to disagree.

You won't think it will be an issue, drawing on your years of experience in the game. I think it will, with the same amount of experience in the game. Which is why I said let's agree to disagree, right under the last thing you misquoted me for.

Let's leave it be.

But im not saying its just gettin gud. There are plenty of options. Natural talent or archon shards for faster casting, aoe weapon that makes it trivial, making a build tankier so it doesnt matter or just playing different frame. Warframe is a game where taking right tools for the job is also important. You dont need to be mechanicaly good at the game. I suck for example but even i can do DA solo if i want to.

[RootyTootyAimAnShooty]

Just now, kuciol said:

But im not saying its just gettin gud. There are plenty of options. Natural talent or archon shards for faster casting, aoe weapon that makes it trivial, making a build tankier so it doesnt matter or just playing different frame. Warframe is a game where taking right tools for the job is also important. You dont need to be mechanicaly good at the game. I suck for example but even i can do DA solo if i want to.

You are telling me to play a tankier frame when I was playing Atlas and my entire comment was just about how many effects were hitting me when doing a skill. On a level 30 interception with an Atlas that can blast through enemies at least double that difficulty and was still killing groups of them with a single hit.. That's the only reference you have to go off here and you're telling me the issue is not having enough power, tankiness or the right weapon.

I'm not working on faster casting on a frame where it is only useful for a single skill and would take away from the build overall. If we were talking that I was playing steel path and I couldn't get through it, fine. But I was in a vastly overpowered frame for the situation. And once again, I still never said this was an issue, I was just sharing an anecdote that made me go, "Wow, this is a bit much".

[Merkranire]

35 minutes ago, RootyTootyAimAnShooty said:

The incident was just an anecdote that made me go, "Blimey!", but I tend to take steel path a lot more cheesily. I don't really take frames that require many stationary skills. I guess the only exception to that would be Zephyr and occasionally Gara, but it's been a hot minute for me as well.

Personally I've not noticed a difference between the two, but I'm also not pushing for 40 rounds on a steel path map. Where I've mostly noticed it is once you get past rotation B on maps that are constant spawn. Survival and Interception are the two where I've really noticed just the sheer amount of effects on the ground makes me really think hard about cast times. Infested get pretty bad, corrupted are the worst. But ironicallly, kuva grineer are just a piece of piddle on the Zariman at 4 times the level of the Atlas incident.

It just seems all over the place.

Like I said above, it's doable. Even the Atlas incident wasn't an issue, because I tend to have plenty of health and energy management. But it was getting to "Oh ffs" territory when I was getting nailed by an AoE every time I pressed 4. It made me not want to play that frame in more difficult circumstances because of it.

Wait, are we still not talking about SP? If the amount of spawns even in the standard game with standard spawns is overwhelming, it could just be the game telling you now’s the time to go since your builds have reached their limit and enemies are getting a chance to accumulate 

[kuciol]

What im saying it was not an issue and wont ever be because we get stronger just as fast if not faster than enemies. You said it yourself, it didnt matter in the end, you were still doing fine.

[RootyTootyAimAnShooty]

5 minutes ago, kuciol said:

What im saying it was not an issue and wont ever be because we get stronger just as fast if not faster than enemies. You said it yourself, it didnt matter in the end, you were still doing fine.

Right, let me put our whole back and forth in a different context so you can maybe see the disconnect. Because you seem to have it in your head I'm talking about something else.

When someone is driving at night and get hit with full beams, and they go, "Jesus, turn the lights down I can't see the road. These lights are getting brighter by the year, I can barely see anything", do you then turn around and go, "Well you need to learn to drive better then it won't be an issue anyway".

Because that's what you're doing.

[RootyTootyAimAnShooty]

31 minutes ago, Merkranire said:

Wait, are we still not talking about SP? If the amount of spawns even in the standard game with standard spawns is overwhelming, it could just be the game telling you now’s the time to go since your builds have reached their limit and enemies are getting a chance to accumulate 

That was on rotation B of an interception on.. uh.. whichever one has the P7 axi relic. We were testing that vs a Lua disruption. We went another C, A, A, B rotation with that going on.

It's not really an issue at low level, and I don't do that on SP, but I hope that's not a sign of what's to come.