Lore Implications: The Infestation and reconstructed Jade

[Aerikx]

Going to try to keep this short and sweet. Are we going to see a Lore level (via cinematic quest preferably) revision or explanation detailing the difference between what I would like to call:

Origin Frames - The Literally Mark I of a Framr. IE: The actual Human who was infected and converted, serving as the base for mass blueprint replication. 

Replicant Frames - The more golem-like recreations of the Origins. IE: The Frames the Player character controls.

Prime Frame - Updated Replicants. 

Reason I ask...

In Lore, all strains of the Infestation perfectly "Save"/"Retain" a 1 for 1 genetic blueprint of anyone and anything it assimilates. 

The Simaris data logs, The Emissary, The Sacrifice, and Entrati Lore all dramatically reinforce/hard canonized this. 

Giving the Infestation the ability to literally create perfect genetic clones that are as real as the original, complete with every single one of the original 's memories.

Excalibur Umbra serves as the living paragon of this fact.

(Tangent: The true horror of this is the philosophical question: If the flesh is the same, and the mind is the same, does the 'copy' therefore have the exact same rights as the original? For all intents and purposes...it IS the original.)

Thus...we come to Jade and her deepest revelation...

Going off Infestation Lore, especially when it comes to the Helminth strain (the strain that created a perfect clone of Excalibur Umbra, technically reviving him from death as the perfect clone of Umbra basically picked up right when it's memories left off)...

This effectively means that every Jade replicated is:

- With child. Not just any child either. A  perfect 1 for 1 recreation of the child Stalker is now fathering. 

- The Operator now knows EVERYTHING about Jade and Stalker's past. As transferring into a Replicant Jade would allow access to all of her memories. 

- Every Jade recreated is on the clock. Destined to perish giving birth. 

I feel like this is a topic that needs to be addressed from a Lore perspective. Before we have hundreds/thousands of baby frames scurrying about. Some named Sirius, others Orion. 

Which brings me to the topic of the child.

Warframes don't 'Grow'/'Age'. They are swordsteel golems that can be run into the ground like a machine....but generally, with proper upkeep they are more or less forever. 

Is this child...forever a child?

Lore wise my head is spinning on this.

[Thanatos9t]

The way I have chosen to quantify it is that Jade effectively ceased to be biologically pregnant when she was exposed to the strain this is why there is a glowing orb of energy in her abdominal cavity to represent the prior pregnancy, (similar to how Grendel has teeth in his abdomen, that's not how he ate before becoming a Warframe)

And that her and Stalkers new child was created by Jade sacrificing herself to transform her body into a vessel for her child.

Which is why there is no actual fetus and no birth, the child just appears in Stalkers hands fully clothed, that would also explain the fact that the child appears to have the same Jade light powers as Jade. Also the version of the Jade Warframe we create does not have the same issue with its lifeforce being drained.

[rapt0rman]

It's entirely possible our copy is pregnant. What that might mean depends on if our starting point is from when she was created or when she dissolved, and whether or not the baby actually needs multiple thousands of years to gestate, or if there was some intent/will from Jade/the baby in it happening the way it did (or at all, meaning that with no intent/will, our copies are essentially in permanent diapause).

I'd like to think that the natural process interfering with the unnatural, causes a born Warframe to be a step closer to a functional, biological species, capable of aging. But we also have only ever seen adults turned into Warframes, so it could be they do age, but not past what the infestation has decided is the complete, mature form (but that could also potentially end up with perma-baby situations)

Or it really is just void magic clone shenanigans as @Thanatos9t says.

It does look suspiciously like a direct clone of Jade, rather than Jade+Sorren's genes resulting in a unique Warframe.

Edited Thursday at 04:06 PM by rapt0rman

[Aerikx]

3 hours ago, Thanatos9t said:

The way I have chosen to quantify it is that Jade effectively ceased to be biologically pregnant when she was exposed to the strain this is why there is a glowing orb of energy in her abdominal cavity to represent the prior pregnancy, (similar to how Grendel has teeth in his abdomen, that's not how he ate before becoming a Warframe)

And that her and Stalkers new child was created by Jade sacrificing herself to transform her body into a vessel for her child.

Which is why there is no actual fetus and no birth, the child just appears in Stalkers hands fully clothed, that would also explain the fact that the child appears to have the same Jade light powers as Jade. Also the version of the Jade Warframe we create does not have the same issue with its lifeforce being drained.

When it comes to her losing her life force, I believe it was a side effect of the absolutely unnatural/impossible birth.

If you think about Warframe biology, it seems entirely impossible for her to do what she did.

But more specifically, her death was Stalker's fault. As Hunhow even said, Stalker was waiting too long to get help. 

And unlike The Tenno, The Stalker doesn't have a Helminth chamber. (Maybe if he had brought Jade to the Orbiter she could have been saved.)

Once Jade hit the point of nigh no return he finally came to the Tenno for aid. 

So there is a chance the Tenno Replicant Jades most likely won't share her fate. 

But as you said, she may have sacrificed herself to create a form for the child. Which...makes sense as The Operator states Jade wasn't even trying to keep living. 

3 hours ago, rapt0rman said:

But we also have only ever seen adults turned into Warframes, so it could be they do age, but not past what the infestation has decided is the complete, mature form (but that could also potentially end up with perma-baby situations)

This is where some clarification would do a service.

Like what are the rules to Warframe growth?

[rapt0rman]

12 minutes ago, Aerikx said:

This is where some clarification would do a service.

Like what are the rules to Warframe growth?

To be fair, the whole situation is supposed to be unprecedented. Lore wise, nobody but Ballas fully understands how it works normally, and even he could probably only guess as to how this would turn out.

For all we know he's tried to make child Warframes before.

Basically we'll know more once yet another of Ballas's unethical experiments that pushes the boundaries comes to light.

[Aerikx]

23 minutes ago, rapt0rman said:

To be fair, the whole situation is supposed to be unprecedented.

Agreed. Hence why my inner loremaster is clawing for some explanations.

 

23 minutes ago, rapt0rman said:

Basically we'll know more once yet another of Ballas's unethical experiments that pushes the boundaries comes to light.

I honestly hope the next Stalker quest answers this somewhat.

We need answers.

[Shinoyami65]

5 hours ago, Aerikx said:

This effectively means that every Jade replicated is:

- With child. Not just any child either. A  perfect 1 for 1 recreation of the child Stalker is now fathering. 

- The Operator now knows EVERYTHING about Jade and Stalker's past. As transferring into a Replicant Jade would allow access to all of her memories. 

- Every Jade recreated is on the clock. Destined to perish giving birth. 

Talking to Ordis in the relay with Jade for BOB yields some dialogue where he says that the playable Jade "is and is not the Jade that was lost". Which is pretty vague but could indicate that the playable Jade isn't identical or a continuation of the original (unlike Umbra). We have seen other examples of 'dead' frames being recreated without necessarily transferring memories, such as Mirage, Inaros and Titania.

Edited Thursday at 08:07 PM by Shinoyami65

[project_eulogy]

I thought the only "living" frame was Umbra Excal. So based on WF's own hardcoded story, its all a physical representation.

I guess "Technically", the infested ate the child? Which is another good reason Sorren is absolutely unequivocally angry. Damn thats dark lol

[Aerikx]

16 hours ago, Shinoyami65 said:

Talking to Ordis in the relay with Jade for BOB yields some dialogue where he says that the playable Jade "is and is not the Jade that was lost". Which is pretty vague but could indicate that the playable Jade isn't identical or a continuation of the original (unlike Umbra). We have seen other examples of 'dead' frames being recreated without necessarily transferring memories, such as Mirage, Inaros and Titania.

The "is and is not" is what I was alluding to when it comes to the philosophical debate on a 'Perfect Clone'.

If a Clone is for all intents and purposes a Perfect copy of the original, down to its very memories...is it wrong to consider it a copy/fake? 

Some say yes it is wrong, because the logical truth is that it is 'on paper' a duplicate/copy. The Original exists/existed. 

Other say no it is not wrong, because there is no factual difference at all.

But if there is no genetic or mental difference between the original and the copy then both can be considered to be the 'true' entity. 

Hence, Jade 'is and is not'.

16 hours ago, project_eulogy said:

I thought the only "living" frame was Umbra Excal. So based on WF's own hardcoded story, its all a physical representation.

Well despite folks claiming Jade Shadows revealed nothing about Stalker, it actually revealed A LOT about him. It just didn't pull a Destiny and exposition it in the player's face. 

IE: As you said, we believed Umbra to be the only one, but the Codex logs reveal that all of what I now call: Origin Frames were self-aware and sentient. (Living...) 

It was suspected after Umbra's reveal that Stalker might be like him but until Jade Shadows we had no hard proof that he wasn't just a twisted/tormented/tortured Tenno. (I personally would have preferred that...)

Instead we learned that he suffered Umbra's fate. He was infected with the Helminth strain as punishment, and his mind/memories were ravaged. (I assume they tried to erase Jade from his mind or torture him by making him not even know the love of his life is right beside him.)

Stalker's frame was not mass produced and it's hinted that Jade wasn't either because they both were not created with the intention of fighting Sentients. 

(I sense Jade Prime being another Valkyrie Prime, Revenant Prime, and the soon to be Xaku Prime situation. IE: The Prime existing makes no sense in Lore.)  

Jade was turned into an executioner, while Sorren/Stalker was relegated to the basically the same duties as a Dax. 

The brightside is...

Knowing that Stalker is exactly like Umbra means that The Operator can save/restore Sorren/Stalker. 

Edited Friday at 12:41 PM by Aerikx