Aerikx

You aren't alone. I typically do SP Circuit solo and yes I do know how spongey it gets at the cap. But tbf if the player has been grabbing decree fragments then by the time it's armor is a serious issue usually the decrees have scaled the player to the point where it isn't an issue. I typically use my Operator to burn down the legs tbh. Even when I'm not running Unairu, usually I'm Madurai or Zenutrik and they also make short work of Jackal especially with Lucinia's Suffering. If anything it's the defense mission that's a "Run ender" as sometimes the objective just gets royally screwed. (Literally had a Thrax spawn, fall off the map, then respawn directly on top of the objective and one shot it.) Just kind of made me go: 🙃 My point is more to the idea of challenge. Like, unless DE can actually stick to its guns then it needs to stop pursuing that delusion. All things aside.... Maybe after they do these armor changes they'll buff Jackal to where it's less of a prison trapped in its own body to where it can maybe flail about wildly and smack something with one of its broken restrainment buckles.

It needs challenge but the community can't handle challenge. Everything with even a shred of a challenge tied to it (looks at Corrupted Jackal) gets nerfed into the ground. At this point, DE is better off focusing on pumping good story, fun gameplay, and cool/unique mechanics. Pursuing challenge is a fool's errand for DE. They are already twerking and nerfing DA & EDA, I suspect the mode will be going to Path of Arbitrations & Archon Hunts in about 3 months (Eased to point where they are trivial). I'm calling it now. That said... These changes are very good. Right now, the system is complex for the sake of being complex. It creates a balancing nightmare across the board. Armor should be armor. Shields should be shields. Dmg should be Dmg. Hp should be hp. Simplifying it also allows for status across the board to become not only more viable but downright meaningful. The irony of having the system be so complex is that it effectively creates a curve to where there is only 1 end all be all build. Hence why folks say: Warframe modding is awesome until the endgame. Where every single weapon uses 1 of 2 possible loadouts. And that's no lie. Everything is a copy and paste. Even Helminth builds have basically degraded to Nourish if the frame can armor strip or use an Armor Strip ability if they can't. 🫤 It has been a problem for far too long.

Good to know. Kind of surprised it hasn't been addressed yet. Either way, seeing how the new Tileset works, I want (Let me have hope) that it's easily fixable. Might be the former as I frequently have enemies spawning when the ravenous Angel spawns.

Glad to see these changes. Before the account link erased my old forums name I constantly said: "Less is More." Complexity for the sake of complexity is a flawed approach. Streamlining and cutting all that bloat really helps the game. Gonna stew a little longer on the changes before making a full "Thoughts and Opinions". Overall this looks amazing. But be careful. You don't want to make the game challenging. We've seen how that ends.

This seems to have gone unnoticed/unreported but in Void Armageddon, enemies tend to keep spawning/spawn between waves and attack the incorrect objectives. Example: Exodampner A has been defended, player moves to Exodampner B. While defending Exodampner B, Enemies have spawned near Exodampner A and are attacking it. Now when either Exodampner B has been defended or a Void Angel spawns, the player either arrives to a destroyed or just about destroyed Exodampner. Even if a player sets up a perimeter of defensive turrets, the enemies will destroy the Exodampner. It creates a very unrewarding experience, as it feels like no matter how hard you try the enemies will win because you cannot defend both Dampners at once. Now, using Frost's snowglobe or Gara's Wall, players often can buy the Exodampner that's not supposed to be attacked time. That said, I feel that the fix for this is easy. In The Entrati Labs Tileset lone of 2 things usually happens: A. The enemies are all wiped in an instant. This is most prominent during Netracells after the enemy kill limit is reached. B. The Undefended Object is made invulnerable This is used during Mirror Defense. Void Armageddon is honestly one of the most unique and fun modes in the game and all it needs is a little QoL to make it more enjoyable. Wanted to drop this here so this issue could get looked into.

As an occasional weekly modifier that can cycle in and out. And under this suggestion, if the weekly modifiers was OG only then a player wouldn't take in their CC Frame. Do you seriously only play as 1 Warframe and use the same 3 weapons 24/7? Or do you have a handful whom you've made strong and powerful? Many players who (especially veterans) would see that Modifier and say: I should use a Warframe that can handle Overguard well. Once again, cause you keep overlooking it or ignoring it. (Then again you did say you stopped reading so you probably just didn't see it.) The idea is to get players to engage with the game fundamentals. To adapt to the challenge but without saying: "Use the weapons our rng slot machine gave you and win." In a world that made sense, using the Overguarded Enemies modifier, Players would adjust their loadouts to account for it. They'd grab weapons that inflict high status, and/or can pop that Overguard quickly. They'd alter their mod builds to speed up the process or pick Warframes who would allow them to burn through the Overguard without too much danger to themselves. I can't think of too many who would stubbornly play as a CC Frame when a 'hard counter to CC' modifier is active. (Admittedly I'd prefer if Overguard didn't ignore CC but followed the rule of diminished returns. But the point of my suggestion was to be an alternative to RNG via adding legitimate challenges. Not completely overhaul Overguard and CC.) The discussion was on the topic of Crowd Control abilities. As that was what my Diminished Returns bullet point was on. Diminished Returns was not in reference to other abilities. I said nothing survives 2 let alone 3 casts because enemies (especially CC'd enemies will be Finished, Parazon s, shot, or AOE nuked long before the player even needs to cast a 3rd time. Ideally, diminished returns would actually encourage this behavior. *Players sees a CC'd Heavy Unit* "I should probably take it out before that becomes a problem." You say it isn't reliable but it is. You know that the ability is good for 3 casts, period. That each non-ovrguarded enemy on screen can be CC'd a maximum of 3 times. That is LITERALLY what reliability is.... Your idea is basically: Nullification doesn't nullify it just drains the player of energy. Ironically that's how old Parasitic Eximus worked.... They just drained players of energy in seconds. (And everyone hated it. The cousins too.) Even with the energy drain, players would just ignore that enemy. Now the enemy has lost any semblance of a threat because it's just draining energy, it isn't actually altering the battlefield in any meaningful way. It just taxes a player more. But it's still weak, if not weaker than before.

You.... Don know what diminished returns are do you? Basically it means you can only do something to an enemy so many times before it's immune. So you can Rest/Rage a Grineer up to 3 times. First cast is whatever the max duration is. Second cast is half that. Third cast is half of the second's duration. So if say a player stacked Duration: 1st Casting: 60s 2nd Casting: 30s 3rd Casting: 15s 4th Casting: Immune Let's be honest. Nothing in Warframe will usually survive 1 casting let alone 3. And any enemies that do survive it will be at a significant disadvantage by then. It's a better system than them being outright Immune (IE: Overguard). And it prevents abuse. Using myself as an abuser. Steel Path The Circuit, excavation & Defense missions. If my Equinox is an option. I literally turn off the enemies with Rest and my friend just casually wipes them out. We both admit it's beyond broken. But we don't want the option to CC gone. Using excavation as an example. I should be able to sleep enemies to protect/minimize damage to an excavator. But not for the entire duration of the mission. Did I clarify my point well enough?

Negative. You should be a shamed of yourself. That's a bad faith argument and you know it. What possible vertical progression is there when players can wipe the room with 1 press or a single shot? Hm? The only solution to that is to nerf and cap players across the board and create a hard limit on everything: Range, Str, Armor, HP, energy. And you and I both know the rage that would create. Which disingenuous players such as yourself would be on these forums protesting. You often are on here saying you want a challenge. So...let's figuratively say that DE let these figurative 10 Billion DMG builds do their 10 billion DMG but they also want the mode to be challenging? That means.... As @quxier alluded to...Enemies would be literal HP sponges. (Cause they gotta absorb 10 Billion points of damage and still live long enough to shoot at the player) Cause the devs do NOT want the endgame mode to be players standing around texting or watching Netflix while a mission timer counts down. If the mode is scaled in that capacity then the mode would basically becomes as exclusive, unplayed, and ignored as Trials were. That's absolutely horrible game design. And you (cause I know you're very knowledgeable and intelligent despite being one of the single most disingenuous and closed minded people I've ever had the displeasure of interacting with) absolutely know it. It'd make gaming news I admit: "DE release new gameplay mode that the majority of its players cannot play." "Warframe's new endgame mode has the difficulty of Destiny's starting missions." "Warframe new Endgame mode cleared in 3 minutes." Yeah...cause that's healthy. Damage attenuation allows those builds to shine while forcing engagement with enemies. They may not do their designed damage but as Archons have proven, they make short work of the on screen enemies. To allow instant removal of enemies is how we ended up Sound Quake Banshee, Old Saryn, and World on Fire Ember builds where players never even saw an enemy for basically the entire run. Then, players turn around and say the game is boring, no challenge. But when devs actually wish to challenge the players, the players have the gall to complain they can't steamroll the content anymore. The entire point of this suggestion is to allow players to play and use whatever they like but also face an actual challenge. Am I saying Damage Attenuation to where enemies take a full clip? No. I'm saying you add it to all enemies so players aren't standing in empty rooms with their thumbs up their rectums whining about spawn rates (doesn't matter how high a spawn rate DE creates, if Players can annihilate the NPCs the very second they materialize then gameplay will feel barren) and how boring the mode is. Even playing Elite Archimedia on Sunday my squad had the map clear to the point where one of us could hallway hero cause the enemy spawns couldn't keep up. Made for a very boring Mirror Defense until Shadow Stalker showed up. I digress.. Folks are whining over not being able to use their builds. Well here's an idea that would do allow so and respect the builds despite your overreaction. Will they do 10 Billion? No. Will they do 5 Billion? Possibly. It would depend on the modifiers. I'm disappointed to see that so many players don't actually want a difficult endgame mode that asks them to engage with the game. Might as well have just let Kahl level content be the endgame at this point. Just a casual romp through a level where everything dies instantly and there is no danger or challenge present whatsoever. Should Loid just mail players weekly rewards next? Cause that's what you and the bulk of the community want it seems. Me? I actually want to you know...Play the game. Actually use my kit, evasion skills, and utilize mechanics. Going off many arguments in these Deep Archimedia threads, DE should nerf The Forgotten One into the ground like it did Corrupted Jackal, cause The Forgotten One disrespects the player in every single way imaginable. It ignores abilities, has heavy damage Attenuation, has multiple one hit kills, places debuffs that negate player defenses, has an enrage timer that absolutely guarantees the player's defeat (similar to when Liches could kill players), and even has the audacity to kill the player.

Invasion It's an archaic mode that needs a full rework. Make it a mode where we play as enemy factions and fight other factions (Doesn't need to be PVP). Give it a Star Wars Battlefront 2 (PS2, the good one) like starchart/system. Make it something fun and different. Right now it's a slog, make no lore sense, and just outright sucks.

How is it random? This concept allows players to go in at their full power. There is nothing random about it. If you die, then that means you you got slain by the enemy or failed the objective. There is no randomness there. This encourages taking advantage of the modding system. Rather than the build just be nothing but big numbers, this asks players to adapt and consider mods such as Sure Footed, Handstand, Primed Sure Footed, and etc. IE: It's asking players to engage with the systems within Warframe and use them to defeat enemies. Part of the reason DE keeps nerfing CC is because when it allows players to spam CC, players abuse it to the point where it is trivialized. I would rather have CC be used in a strategic manner to turn situations around, and/or allow players to create opportunities instead of what we currently have... Which is no CC. Every few updates we have less and less of it. The OP literally can be invulnerable and is often used to cheese content. I do not believe it is too much to ask endgame players to consider the situation when using OP/Drift. The literal theme of Deep Archimedia (as in the version on Live) is "Risk for Reward". Damage Attenuation can be fine tuned as we've seen with Archons. However, it is required for a concept that allows players to engage with their 10 billion damage builds. Honestly, your response proves my point in other threads about how disingenuous the community has become. It says it wants endgame challenges but wants to be allowed to wipe rooms with 1 button press and/or use their extremely overpowered meta builds (which instantly delete enemies before the enemies can do so much as think). So basically the real complaint is: "I just want free rewards as a endgame player. Don't make me work for them." The goal of this concept is to offer an alternative challenge to the RNG Load Outs and self-debuffs. The current Deep Archimedia is designed in such a way that it's "Challenge" is one that is self made. Of players want rewards they have to deprive themselves from using their favorite Warframes & Weapons, and then choose to debuff themselves. Which many players actively dislike. This concept flips things. Players are able to enter the mode at their absolute max power. To actually utilize the power, reflexes, skills, and knowledge they have accumulated throughout the game. However, the trade off is that the enemies are buffed to the point where players actually have to engage with them. They can't just be ignored.

So with the RNG Loadout being a huge area where players are upset. I wanted to suggest a Deep Archimedia rework that maintains an intense level of challenge while also respecting Deep Arc's theme of: "Great Risk for Great Rewards" My concept comes from various avenues such as: - Nightfalls (Destiny 1) - Deep Dungeon (FF14) - Darkest Dungeon - Diablo 3 Rifts Warframe Influences like: - Grendel Missions - Arbitrations - The Circuit (Old/Pre-Nerf) - Archon Hunts So let's address the Hot Topic first: Failure being meaningful Many will argue Failure doesn't mean difficult. They are correct. But failure is meant to be punishing/stressful. Players should legitimately FEAR failing. Failure needs to have a price and it should feel bad. Period. When failure is punishing, players hesitate, which makes them look over and update their arsenal. As this concept is essentially a: Replace Random Loadouts with legitimate/static challenges This concept also comes with some fundamental changes. 1. The Modifiers are universal/shared across all platforms like Sorties & Archon Hunts. The trade off here is that my concept is significantly more challenging and punishing than current Deep Archimedia. 2. Having shared modifiers removes the current cheese that Deep Archimedia suffers from. (Having someone unmodified carry you through it.) 3. The Price of Failure needs to be punishing. Under my concept, players are allowed to enter at their full strength. Therefore, the price of failure should not be light handed, afterall no handicaps are being applied to players. So...onto my concept point by point. ______________________________________ Mission Flow The 3 Back to Back Missions formula stays the same. (I feel that's pretty cool honestly.) This locks players into their choices making loadouts and build choice matter. (They'll be using their meta builds anyways so this is probably a non-issue.) ______________________________________ Static Mission Mechanics Every week the Deep Archimedia run would have a the following modifiers in place. IE: The don't rotate. They are always on. - Damage Attenuation on All Enemies This is to create enemies who cannot be casually cut through. Allowing (much like Kahl Missions were) a slightly more tailored experience. IE: The enemy isn't an unending tide but it is not to be trifled with. Or to put it bluntly, players are facing tough groups not an endless horde. This creates combat where enemies must be engaged with. Forcing the player to dodge, parkour, and use cover as enemies will not be easily slain. - Enemy AI set to Launch Day Fortuna Level This empowers Enemies with actual abilities that CC, Stun, and stifle the player. Forcing players to not only be engaged and evasive but to consider mods/builds they typically wouldn't as enemies are now fully capable of punishing players who do not dodge/evade and prioritize elite/eximus units. IE: This penalizes brute force tactics in favor of asking players to be more adaptable/reflexive. - Permanent Diminished Returns on Enemies Enemy becomes permanently immune to Crowd Control, Stuns, etc after 3 applications. For context: Every cast of Equinox 's Rest sleeps an enemy unit for less time until the unit is permanently immune for the rest of the mission (unless killed). This makes CC a tactical choice but also one players must take advantage of not abuse. - Death is Death Unairu's Last Gasp - Disabled Ulfrun's Descent - Disabled IE: Players have 1 life and only 1 life. All mods, companions, and abilities that cheat death are disabled. Death carries across Characters: Warframe, Necramech, Operator/Drifter all share a life. If one goes down the others do too. (Death Penalty will be detailed later) - No Items No specters, restores, ciphers, etc. The only Gear available are Heavy Weaponry. - 25% Energy Tax to Abilities & individual Cooldowns set upon abilities All Abilities that cost Energy use 25% more to use. All abilities that only inflict a cooldown (Lavos) have 25% additional cooldown added to their timers. All abilities (including Transference) receive a 60 second cool down timer upon use. Explanation: The above mechanics are to make the missions more engaging. Creating a slightly more tailored experience that cannot be casually mowed through. Instead, players are forced to engage with enemies in a more tactical manner. Specific enemies would be a significant threat and require the player/squad to kill ASAP as they can inflict heavy damage or overall endanger the entire mission via knockbacks, stuns, knockdowns, disabling/cancelling Warframe Abilities (Which due to the increased energy cost and cooldown would be rather punishing.) Having death be shared across characters makes using Necramechs or Operator/Drifter carry an actual risk factor. Forcing players to consider the situation when using said vehicle/mode. ______________________________________ Rotating Weekly Modifiers Rather than debuff the players, these modifiers are more tuned towards empowering enemies and altering/changing mechanics. Every week a total of 6 modifiers are in effect. _________________ Tileset Modifiers: (2 of these are always in effect) - Lockdown All doors must be hacked. Enemies can hack doors to lockdown rooms and activate anti-tenno security measures. - Going in Blind All Map, Mini-Map, and Waypoints (including Extraction) are disabled. - Escalating Alerts Enemy level permanently increases everytime an alarm is sounded. - Overguarded All enemy units have Overguard. Enemies within 10m of eachother regenerate 10% Overguard a second. - Security Breach All rooms have all security measures in effect. - Barfight Every enemy killed has 50% chance to call in reinforcements (up to 5 new enemies). - Where did I put that Ammo drops are reduced by 75%. - Table Scraps No loot crates are present. Energy and Health Orbs only drop from enemies. Health and Energy Orbs restore at -50% effectiveness. _________________ Enemy Modifiers: (3 of these are always in effect) - Down for the Count Enemies melee damage is quadrupled. - Shoot Out Enemy projectiles do triple damage. - No Scope Enemies can perform headshots on Tenno. Headshots landed on Tenno are guaranteed Red Crit's. - Nat 20 All Enemy damage is Critical. - Finish Em Enemies perform finishers on Tenno below 25% HP - Feeling Vulnerable Enemies can permanently strip Tenno Armor. - Taste of your own Medicine Eximus unit AOEs fill the room. - How do you like it Enemy status ailments perform the same as Tenno status. - Full Counter Enemies can reflect Tenno abilities. - Unrelenting Horde All Enemies units have regenerating Overguard, Health, unique Abilities (Ala: Lich/Sisters), and must be slain via Parazon. - Calling in the Big Guns All Enemies are equipped with Heavy Weaponry. (Archguns, Lich/Sister Weapons) - Not your Time Soldier Enemies can revive each other. - Back from the Void All slain enemies return as an Elite Liminus or Thrax unit. ___________________ Damage Modifiers: (Only 1 is in effect at all times) - Fork in the Outlet All enemies deal triple Electric damage. - Playing with Fire All enemies deal triple Fire damage. - Tongue stuck to a Pole All enemies deal triple Ice damage. - Action Movie All enemies deal triple Blast damage. - Lotus/Natah/Margulis, I don't feel so good All enemies deal triple Corrosive damage. - Should have taken my Meds All enemies deal triple Viral damage. - Fallout All enemies deal triple Radiation damage. - Polarize This All enemies deal triple Magnetic damage. _____________________ The Failure Mechanic Going back to failure... Once unlocked the for the week (just like current Deep Archimedia) players can attempt the mission as many times as they like. However, seeing how the mode allows for players to come in with their full unbridled power. Failure is failure. The higher the risk the greater the reward, the greater the reward, the harder the fall. 1. Death is an instant fail No revives. Not even teammates can revive. Once a player dies, they spectate until the squad finish the mission, the player will be given the option to return to lobby AFTER the game has soft saved squad progress. If the player disconnects while in spectator they are locked out of the mode till reset. (IE: Don't be a sore loser and host migrate out of spite. Take your L with dignity.) A snuffer for Host Migrations the mode soft loot saves every mission, creating a checkpoint for the player. Note: Rewards are not cashed in until you complete all 3 missions. 2. Death/Failing the Objective returns the squad to the lobby and hard resets all progression. Quiting the mission forfeits all rewards and hard resets progression. 3. All rewards accumulated on that run are lost. (Ex: Loot acquired from clearing Mission 1 or 2 is lost.) The player has to go back in and retry. Unlimited retries but you don't retain rewards for failing. You must clear all 3 missions to receive rewards. End Goal: An endgame mode that accounts for meta load outs. As the RNG of the current Deep Archimedia is a factor of challenge, these suggestions are meant to serve as a "Trade Off". In other words, the RNG aspect vanishes but the Deep dive isn't pulling its punches, come in ready for a fight. Account for and mod to counter/adapt to the enemy modifiers, and be on your A-Game. Addendum: I don't mind the RNG personally, but wanted to suggest an alternative to the RNG as I have yet to meet another player who likes it.

I'm more or less saying... Stop asking to be completely OP. Like 90% of folks are basically saying: Let us wipe 3 rooms at a time. Let us be completely broken. Irony is these same folks will turn around in a few weeks and say the game is too easy, boring, or how "toxic" Dante is. Line of Sight is kind of a GIVEN mechanic in ALL games. Everyone keeps saying Saryn. But Saryn's spores actually follow a different method. They DO use line of sight. As spores, essentially spread from enemy to enemy in the same way beam weapons divide. It only seems like she avoids LoS. That said... After all this is said and done, I'd say it might be time DE gives Saryn the ole Ember and banshee treatment. The fact Saryn keeps being brought up kind of says: "She needs to be addressed." Might be time to give her a spore and damage cap, reduce the range of her abilities and maybe even slap on a cooldown. Mechanically she functions differently, yes. But the more I think about it. The more I just go: "There can't be a double standard." Admittedly, I actually think DE intended for Dante to be a support (like Harrow) but a lack of testing and a flawed release introduced him as an AOE dps. Now, the court of public opinion only sees him as a DPS. There might be no going back. *Look at the Monkey's Paw* I feel like Saryn and Kullervo might be on the radar now though.

Saryn does have something to this regard. A mechanic most folks forget due to her typical rotation. Spores that spread to enemies at limited unless they are hit by Miasma. Miasma turns the spores that were spread to enemies into "New" Spores. ie: - The spore spread to an enemy via killing another will NOT spread to another enemy, thus ending the spread. If miasma hits the enemy that received a spore spread to that very same enemy via a killed enemy, then miasma will turn that spore into a let's call it natural spore. Which refreshes its ability to spread. Try NOT using Miasma as Saryn then watch how hard it is to keep spores going. Miasma effectively cancels decay and continues the spread.

All of you furiously yelling for them to remove LoS... Literally saying: Just let us nuke the map endlessly This is a Monkey's Paw wish. I'm warning you. If they listen they will nerf Dante's range and other abilities into the ground to balance it. Might even slap some crazy energy costs on it out of spite. Then you'll be begging for the LoS restriction to come back.... *Reflects on the Bladestorm, Cataclysm, Sound Quake, and numerous Chroma Nerfs* I see the Monkey's Paw Finger twitching....

Saryn doesn't tank like Dante can. As long as Saryn stays on top of her rotation she can stay safe but if a Saryn gets sloppy she drops like a rock. Had a Saryn in SP Circuit who got cocky and got dropped by a Thrax. Dante laughs(laughed) at any Thrax dumb enough to attack him. The difference is that Saryn's rotation is stricter and has more variables than Dante's just watch my Cooldowns and refresh rotation.

Your post summed up Dante hands down. As a guy who plays MMORPGs, Dante is very much a "Rotation" character. Once you learn/master a spellcast rotation he (and his squad) were just untouchable. Even with the Line of Sight bug making his Tragedy ability unreliable to the point of being useless he is still frighteningly powerful and amazing as a support. My buddy has already mastered Dante's spellcast rotation and trivialized Elite Deep Archimedia for us last night and this was obviously Post Nerf. Before the nerf he and I duo'd SP Circuit from 0 to 10 and laughed the entire way. Afterwards he was like: "Well it was fun for this week. They are SO gonna nerf this. No way they leave this S#&$." The real issue is... The Community has a: "DPS is all that matters" mentality. So the idea that DE may have considered Dante to be a primary support, secondary DPS is just straight up unacceptable to them. Now, in The Community's defense... Releasing Dante that overpowered ultimately established him as a DPS in the court of public opinion. As they say... "First Impressions are everlasting." And the community got to taste Dante as an instant win room Nuke with supportive skills. Now DE has (in the court of public opinion) inverted the roles. The nerfs to cc and other support functions also have not helped DE in any meaningful way. So whiplash is to be expected. That said. The overreaction this time is insane and way way way too dramatic. You'd think DE crawled in people's windows, looked them in the eye, then shot their dog. We all knew the nerf was coming. He was essentially a walking map wipe with far too much tanking ability. Much like with Harrow, I suspect once DE fine tunes him, the complaints will be begging for DE to invert him again, making him more dps focused. Personally... I think DE should have just delayed Deep Archimedia until after Dante's new Warframe smell wore off and his gameplay had turned him into the new Limbo. (IE: Wait for the community to beg for a nerf) But what can you do? *Shrugs*

I wonder what the DE offices are like... The overreaction to this is even more insane than Styanax's. At this point DE could say: "We've lowered [Frame]'s str stat by 1." Forums & Reddit: "[Frame] is absolutely useless. Just delete it from the game."

Hello, we are calling to ask you about your Orbiter's extended warranty.

I whole hearty agree with this. In many threads I point out Jackal (while he is simple he a mechanical masterpiece considering the majority of bosses in this game) and Ropololyst because they honestly have good and decently engaging mechanics. The community REALLY seems to hate bosses with substance/mechanics though. "Invulnerability isn't fun" "I didn't acquire all this gear to not be able to use it." Were the common arguments. 😮‍💨 Hence how we got Archons which feels very anticlimactic impo. They just feel like elite units who have an occasional "stop dps'ing button". Boreal has decent mechanics IMPO. Amar and Nira not so much. But even they get hated on cause of damage attenuation. So I dunno... On this topic though you and I are in alignment.

Some sort of mad scientist with a lab cost who throws actual beakers at enemies. Something just crazy wacky like that would be extremely amusing.

It's called Subsuming. My main copy is cooking in the Foundry as we speak. I don't level my 1st copy of a frame. If I do I get lazy and slack on farming a 2nd copy. I subsume, then play my 2nd copy to rank up, forma, and experiment with. My buddy however, he loves Dante and its playing with him as a maxed out Dante was beyond boring. But as expected. He's too busy having fun than to farm a 2nd one to subsume. (Which is why he barely has anything in Helminth, but I digress) I won't lie. We had a good laugh and an absolute blast just ignoring everything, watching the map wipe, and etc. But that gets old. Fast. After we went did our SP Circuit run in one sitting he just goes: "Yeah this is getting nerfed."

Translation: I lack reading skills and comprehension so I'mma type something edgy. There is nothing to argue. He was a walking invulnerable room wipe. The game is easy enough as it is. I'm sorry for the loss of your "I Win" button. But if you needed Dante to be that overtuned to play at the cap then you aren't very good at the game now are you? Now, shoo, go back to wasting more of your time in a capped endless mission and earn yourself that glorious trade ban badge of honor.

I have reached cap many times and such a boast means absolutely nothing. It is an unrealistic expectation/gameplay style. The person who doesn't understand the game is honestly you. (And you secretly know it) To expect the devs to keep characters in a state that breaks 99% of the game for the sake of the extreme select few who choose to play it beyond it's intended scope is a fundamentally flawed, selfish & self-centered mentality. Was he and his squad immortal at the absolute final peak of the game achieved by playing the game in a manner that 99% of the players never will? No, he was not. Therefore he should be allowed to trivialize the entirety of the rest of the game. Understood. *Thumbs up* As for builds and experimentation? Considering you only care about reaching the cap; you are the one who doesn't experiment. It's meta or nothing. Spare me your flawed diatribe.

Dante changes were exactly what I expected. Well done. Literal team wide immortality was beyond ridiculous. Why folks are so upset over this? I don't know. If you couldn't see why full squads of night infinite Overguard was beyond reason. Line of Sight. Yeah makes sense. That all said... Get to work on neutering Deep Archimedia. Those modifiers and that level challenge doesn't belong in the game. You literally JUST nerfed The Circuit into the ground because it was "Too Hard". More than half of those modifiers are brutal. Especially since they'll be stacking on top of random Loadout preventing meta builds and compositions. I look forward to seeing Deep Archimedia's upcoming nerfs.