Sevagoth Prime's Shadow doesn't seem to actually apply armor to himself.

[Shinjukunoyopparai]

(Apologies for lack of any medias- few months ago, YouTube automatically terminated my account without any reasonable explanation and refuses to elaborate at all while claiming "so we used human to investigate the cases, but nope. the ban was legitimate and we ain't gonna tell anything detailed about it", even ignoring community help posts. So I can't really find a meaningful way to post videos.)

 

After the initial release of Sevagoth prime, I modded my prime Shadow to the point of having 1330 Armor, which system indicates I take 81.6% less damage dealt to health.

Never tested in simulacrum, but in actual missions(I tested in Selkie, Sedna and Persto, Deimos), prime Shadow seems to take way more damage than Sevagoth prime. for instance, Sevagoth prime takes 100 damage to shields with same attack. when I activate shadow, when the invulnerability ends and shield depletes, shadow is supposed to take like 40~ish damage, due to 80+% DR offered by armor.

But Shadow prime takes around 200 damage for same attack. even cross-checked with arson eximus' heat tick, armor doesn't seem to remotely work at all. Shadow keeps taking damage way more than Sevagoth prime as if I got no armor at all.

At first I thought it was related to Arcane Battery, which was still giving the increased energy bonus to Shadow. but even without it, prime Shadow still takes higher damage compared to Sevagoth, and I am constantly forced back to Sevagoth due to seemingly lack of any defense except raw health.

And today I searched upon the forum, and it seems no one is having this kind of problem which still is driving me mad.

Does anyone have the same problem like I do?

[Yulfan]

So: i'm not a math guy. I tried to calculated expected damages on Shadow with different armor values and such and to compare them with observed damages, but it seems the formula is not simply : Final Damage = Base Damage * (1 - (Armor / (Armor + 300))). I can't get it to work consistently, so my guess is that part of the damages is bypassing the Tenno armor. And indeed, IF i throw the whole thing to chatGPT with the assumption that part of the damages is not reduced by armor, he is able to make it work (with ton of formulas). But i don't want to take chatGPT's results as face value since it is able to make mistakes, so i prefer ignoring it.

(EDIT: There is some caveat to it. Read the follow up edit below)

HOWEVER, just by observing the damages numbers, something seems indeed strange.

All my tests are:

• In Simulacrum,
• Using Sevagoth and Shadow PRIME,
• Against 2 Butchers, level 170 with Steel Path modifier,
• No Companion,
• Only listing total Health after each hit.

The builds used :

• For Sevagoth:
  • Only Health:       Arcane Blessing (full stack) + Physique (Aura), Vitality, Primed Vigor, Gladiator Resolve, Nira's Hatred
  • Health & Armor: Arcane Blessing (full stack) + Physique (Aura), Vitality, Primed Vigor, Gladiator Resolve, Nira's Hatred, Steel Fiber, Carnis Carapace
• For Shadow:
  • Only Health:       Arcane Blessing (full stack) + Physique (Aura), Vitality, Primed Vigor, Gladiator Resolve, Nira's Hatred
  • Health & Armor: Arcane Blessing (full stack) + Physique (Aura), Vitality, Primed Vigor, Gladiator Resolve, Nira's Hatred, Steel Fiber, Gladiator Aegis

The reason i used Carnis Carapace on Sevagoth and Gladiator Aegis on Shadow is to reach almost similar armor values for easier comparison (471 VS 475). Thus, Sevagoth come with a bit more HP when using the Health & Armor build.

 

And here are my results:

• With SEVAGOTH:
  • Only Health build -> 185 Armor (38.1% DR):
    • Total Health: 2569 HP -> 1742 HP -> 915 HP -> 88 HP.
    • Consistent 827 damages taken.
  • Health & Armor build -> 471 Armor (61.1% DR):
    • Total Health: 2643 HP -> 2122 HP -> 1601 HP -> 1080 HP -> 559 HP -> 38 HP.
    • Consistent 521 damages taken.
• With SHADOW:
  • Only Health build -> 475 Armor (61.3% DR):
    • Total Health: 2569 HP -> 1736 HP -> 903 HP -> 70 HP.
    • Consistent 833 damages taken.
  • Health & Armor build -> 1140 Armor (79.2% DR):
    • Total Health: 2569 HP -> 2014 HP -> 1459 HP -> 904 HP -> 349 HP.
    • Consistent 555 damages taken.

 

As i said, i'm not a math guy and i might miss something very important which would make my results incorrect. But so far, when comparing damages taken, Shadow actually seems to take a lot more damages compared to Sevagoth for almost identical armor values (471 VS 475). This would be worth studying in more depth by DE.

 

EDIT: WAIT, WAIT, WAIT!! I may have found something!

So: at the beginning i said that i struggled and that the formula may not be Final Damage = Base Damage * (1 - (Armor / (Armor + 300))). However at that point, i only tested this formula for SHADOW and not for SEVAGOTH. I went back to this formula and used Sevagoth's health value with it and here is what i get:

• Only Health build -> 185 Armor:

Final Damage = Base Damage * (1 - (Armor / (Armor + 300)))

Base Damage = Final Damage / (1 - (Armor / (Armor + 300)))

Base Damage = 827 / (1 - (185 / 485))

Base Damage = 1 336,9833333333333333333333333333827

• Health & Armor build -> 471 Armor:

Final Damage = Base Damage * (1 - (Armor / (Armor + 300)))

Base Damage = Final Damage / (1 - (Armor / (Armor + 300)))

Base Damage = 521 / (1 - (471 / 771))

Base Damage = 1 338,97

Pretty similar results here, showing that butchers do the same damage all the time (small differences can be attributed to rounding). However, when doing the same thing with Shadow:

• Only Health build -> 475 Armor:

Final Damage = Base Damage * (1 - (Armor / (Armor + 300)))

Base Damage = Final Damage / (1 - (Armor / (Armor + 300)))

Base Damage = 833 / (1 - (475 / 775))

Base Damage = 2 151,9166666666666666666666666667

• Health & Armor build -> 1140 Armor:

Final Damage = Base Damage * (1 - (Armor / (Armor + 300)))

Base Damage = Final Damage / (1 - (Armor / (Armor + 300)))

Base Damage = 555 / (1 - (1140 / 1440))

Base Damage = 2 664

Here the results are way different and clearly absurd: it is impossible that the damage caused by these butchers could be so different from one case to another. That's why these results made me think at first i may be using the wrong formula, so i didn't delves further into it and i just recorded the health values. But now, seeing the formula is working pretty well with Sevagoth's values, it really seems like there is something wrong with how Shadow's armor and damages reduction is calculated.

 

EDIT2: Short addition to this while i keep digging. Since Shadow's armor seems wrong, i wanted to determine its actual value. So i went back to the formula Final Damage = Base Damage * (1 - (Armor / (Armor + 300))) while using:

• The Final Damage values observed with Shadow: 833 damages and 555 damages
• The Base Damage observed with Sevagoth (since it seems the only reliable one): ≈1337.

I'll spare you the whole process to isolate Armor. The formula become: Armor = (300 * (Base Damage−Final Damage)) / Final Damage

With the values i chose before, the results are:

• If Final Damage = 833, then Armor = 181,51260504201680672268907563025
• If Final Damage = 555, then Armor = 422,7027027027027027027027027027

Once again, rounding make the results inaccurate, but these armor values look a lot like Sevagoth's (185 Armor with Only Health build and 471 Armor with Health & Armor build). So it may be that the source of the problem is that Shadow is actually using Sevagoth's armor values and not his own.

Edited September 2 by Yulfan

[JimmyTheSlayerPrime]

I have been noticing the same problem with shadow there is also a lot of issues with shadow dying and random things happening like acolytes thinking they have killed my warframe and once in netracells my teammate got the keys i was holding when my shadow died

[Gage3Dm]

Bump. Same issues and I'm JimmyTheSlayerPrime's friend who had to suddenly take all the keys :0

[Niji1]

Same issue, PS5 player here and Sevagoth Prime's Shadow is just popping like a balloon as soon as something touches it, running adaptation and other mods so it shouldn't be dying so quick.

[MerlintheAgeless]

Made a post about the same issue.

 

 

[NovaLP]

On 2024-09-01 at 2:19 PM, Yulfan said:

Once again, rounding make the results inaccurate, but these armor values look a lot like Sevagoth's (185 Armor with Only Health build and 471 Armor with Health & Armor build). So it may be that the source of the problem is that Shadow is actually using Sevagoth's armor values and not his own.

I am feeling so bad for you, you invested all this time and work into testing and reporting this only for DE to prob ignore it :D

There are sooo many frames that have basicly unusable abilities at this point or annoying bugs that make them weaker then they should.

- Titanias Trbiutes launching themselves into space for 95% of the time, making them unable to be collected (has been bugged for 2 years now with no fix in sight)

- Yarelis Merulina Softlocking you for a good 8-10 seconds if you get cc'ed on it, altho you should be cc immune (has been bugged since Yarelis launch with no fix in sight)

- ...

And I could keep going,

Sevagoths Shadow using wrong armor values will prob never be fixed and is prob going to be added to the pile of shame I just mentioned

[RubyBlossom5]

 

On 2024-09-01 at 8:19 AM, Yulfan said:

Once again, rounding make the results inaccurate, but these armor values look a lot like Sevagoth's (185 Armor with Only Health build and 471 Armor with Health & Armor build). So it may be that the source of the problem is that Shadow is actually using Sevagoth's armor values and not his own.

Up, nice research. I tested this before but couldn't find the conclusion, I would do more testing on it now.

No wonder the Shadow cannot tank very well, I always noticed this, and now we realize nobody is actually crazy about it.