Why is XAKU not considered the S+ tier frame, that sits above all others.

[(PSN)Magician_NG]

20 minutes ago, Prof-Dante said:

As much as it sounds like it, I wasn't actually kidding, Zephyr can reach damage levels not even a Warframe with the best damage buff can deal, she can one shot Archons, and if that's been done, she can one shot those Mirror defense Necramechs on EDA.

I just assumed it was a Target Fixation build since it scales infinitely like Gara's kit.

[MrInubis]

9 minutes ago, Xycelium said:

Perhaps it is just pixels, but to me, if someone does not see the value in respecting a single character's pronouns, how would I expect for you to do the same to someone else? The lack of awareness that one must have to not see the value in having some basic respect for others is unconventional and inconvenient for everybody

Ah yea, respect for sci-fi armor. You are taking things to far. You are being offended on the account of something that doesnt exist. On top of it its a thing, not a person. You are prime example of SJW. You think you do something good by being offended by ridiculous things. Newsflash, you help nobody.

Edited September 6 by kuciol

[Xycelium]

11 minutes ago, kuciol said:

Ah yea, respect for sci-fi armor. You are taking things to far. You are being offended on the account of something that doesnt exist. On top of it its a thing, not a person. You are prime example of SJW. You think you do something good by being offended by ridiculous things. Newsflash, you help nobody.

You are completely missing my point for the sake of painting me as some sort of woke boogeyman (boogeythem? I guess lol). Which sorta proves my point on how you value respecting others. Guess I can add some reactionary hostility in there as well.

[dwqrf]

il y a 33 minutes, Xycelium a dit :

Singular they and them have been in use for over several centuries. Also, you wrote a whole paragraph to me justifying why Xaku can't be such. I don't know how else to explain it to you.

I really like Caliban and Dante. But Xaku used to be my main.

But now, I think they are stronger than them.

Who is stronger than who ? Tell me.

[TeaHands]

7 minutes ago, dwqrf said:

I really like Caliban and Dante. But Xaku used to be my main.

But now, I think they are stronger than them.

Who is stronger than who ? Tell me.

I really like Dante. But Caliban used to be my main

But now, I think he's stronger than him.

Who is stronger than who? You can just ask me for clarity because that's something adults can do.

[dwqrf]

il y a 7 minutes, TeaHands a dit :

I really like Dante. But Caliban used to be my main

But now, I think he's stronger than him.

Who is stronger than who? You can just ask me for clarity because that's something adults can do.

So instead of having one situation were we can misunderstand each other, you created two. Just because.

[Xycelium]

1 hour ago, dwqrf said:

I really like Caliban and Dante. But Xaku used to be my main.

But now, I think they are stronger than them.

Who is stronger than who ? Tell me.

Caliban and Dante are stronger than Xaku. That's implied through order of introduction and context. Although, I think most people can agree that Caliban are not on the same level as either Dante nor Xaku, but that's up to you to decide that for yourself.

Also while TeaHands may be off, you can literally just always ask for clarity. That's how communication works.

[MrInubis]

1 hour ago, Xycelium said:

You are completely missing my point for the sake of painting me as some sort of woke boogeyman (boogeythem? I guess lol). Which sorta proves my point on how you value respecting others. Guess I can add some reactionary hostility in there as well.

Dude you started this. You are being a D to real people because you got offended what pronouns they use reffering to product of someones imagination. You are the way you accuse me of being. You want to tell me about respect? Stop being a D first and stop being offended by something so stupid.

[dwqrf]

il y a 17 minutes, Xycelium a dit :

Caliban and Dante are stronger than Xaku. That's implied through order of introduction and context. Although, I think most people can agree that Caliban are not on the same level as either Dante nor Xaku, but that's up to you to decide that for yourself.

Also while TeaHands may be off, you can literally just always ask for clarity. That's how communication works.

Caliban isn't a they/them, though.

[sunderthefirmament]

On 2024-09-01 at 10:47 PM, IAkashGargI said:

XAKU has 100% armor/shield strip in a big AOE. Auto Turrets that deal damage scaled on enemy level. 75% damage reduction. The best weapon damage buff. All of this for infinite duration. Only care about spamming his 4th ability. 

So, my question is what makes him not the best frame in game ever?

I think that part of the reason Xaku doesn't get talked about all that often is due to how difficult it is to acquire them.  The prime would have fixed this.  In fact, had the Jade Shadows update not devalued armor strips, I imagine that Xaku's prime release would have likely skyrocketed their popularity.  They're very strong and can fit a wide variety of mission types.

 

But Jade Shadows made armor strips less mandatory.  It beefed up enemy HP as well, which was an indirect nerf to Xaku's 2 damage.  They're still an amazing frame, but I don't know if they'll ever be incredibly popular.  I guess we'll see when the prime comes out... _{whenever that is.}

[Xycelium]

1 hour ago, kuciol said:

Dude you started this. You are being a D to real people because you got offended what pronouns they use reffering to product of someones imagination. You are the way you accuse me of being. You want to tell me about respect? Stop being a D first and stop being offended by something so stupid.

All I did was explain my confusion at first, before someone else decided to make it about me taking representation seriously when it was never about that. Only then afterwards did I further explain something, and then you hopped in to imply I was being ridiculous for even caring. You can't shift the blame towards me when I was nowhere near aggressive at any point and rightfully pointing out your hostile nature.

1 hour ago, dwqrf said:

Caliban isn't a they/them, though.

I literally never called him that. The part you bolded was not even part of my response, it was a small opinion regarding your statement.

Actually, wait, is it because I used 'are'? I think it's pretty obvious that I meant 'is'. You don't even need to use 'are' if you are referring to someone directly by name, or using another pronoun like 'you' like how I just showcased.

43 minutes ago, sunderthefirmament said:

I think that part of the reason Xaku doesn't get talked about all that often is due to how difficult it is to acquire them.  The prime would have fixed this.  In fact, had the Jade Shadows update not devalued armor strips, I imagine that Xaku's prime release would have likely skyrocketed their popularity.  They're very strong and can fit a wide variety of mission types.

 

But Jade Shadows made armor strips less mandatory.  It beefed up enemy HP as well, which was an indirect nerf to Xaku's 2 damage.  They're still an amazing frame, but I don't know if they'll ever be incredibly popular.  I guess we'll see when the prime comes out... _{whenever that is.}

Speaking of Xaku's Prime, I'm still a bit miffed that Sevagoth cut in line. Like, it's still cool that he exists and his Prime Arsenal is quite cool, but I would have really preferred to have gotten the gilded skeleton by now instead personally.

Ah well, Winter it is then.

[dwqrf]

il y a 21 minutes, Xycelium a dit :

Actually, wait, is it because I used 'are'? I think it's pretty obvious that I meant 'is'. You don't even need to use 'are' if you are referring to someone directly by name, or using another pronoun like 'you' like how I just showcased.

🤷‍♂️

[MrInubis]

53 minutes ago, Xycelium said:

You can't shift the blame towards me when I was nowhere near aggressive at any point and rightfully pointing out your hostile nature.

No, you just made remark that i dont have any respect towards anyone because i dont care about fictional character pronouns. Yes, you started this. Pointing out how stupid it is to be as defensive about such thing is not being hostile.

[Xycelium]

2 hours ago, kuciol said:

No, you just made remark that i dont have any respect towards anyone because i dont care about fictional character pronouns. Yes, you started this. Pointing out how stupid it is to be as defensive about such thing is not being hostile.

Except, I did that after you outright said that you willingly disregard; not even just a character's pronouns, but just their confirmed identity in general. That's why, I stated that if you do not find it necessary to respect a fictional character, why would I expect you to do the same for someone else? This is basic 1:1 correlation. You could have disproved me at this point, but all you want to do is attack me over it.

Also, you seem really keen on me starting this; when all I said at first "Ya know, I see that Xaku is being discussed, but I'm genuinely confused by how people seem to keep on referring to a different Warframe" and continued on with my post. I don't see how you can construe this as being overtly defensive over anything, since I was genuinely confused while reading the thread. This is exactly why you're being hostile, because it's not normal to see anything I said and turn into me being offended over anything, and you continuing to insult me doesn't help your case at all.

[MrInubis]

42 minutes ago, Xycelium said:

Except, I did that after you outright said that you willingly disregard; not even just a character's pronouns, but just their confirmed identity in general

Because its fictional and it doesnt matter one bit. 

 

43 minutes ago, Xycelium said:

That's why, I stated that if you do not find it necessary to respect a fictional character, why would I expect you to do the same for someone else?

Because 1 does not exist. Its that simple. If you cant figure out the difference its not my problem.

 

45 minutes ago, Xycelium said:

Ya know, I see that Xaku is being discussed, but I'm genuinely confused by how people seem to keep on referring to a different Warframe"

Thats not the post im reffering to.

 

46 minutes ago, Xycelium said:

you continuing to insult me doesn't help your case at all.

You worked for such responses.

[Xycelium]

15 minutes ago, kuciol said:

Because its fictional and it doesnt matter one bit.

16 minutes ago, kuciol said:

Because 1 does not exist. Its that simple. If you cant figure out the difference its not my problem.

You quite literally said that "'them' just sounds stupid" in regards to Xaku. Does that suddenly change if you were to talk to someone who uses 'them'? That's a rhetorical question; because you've been talking to someone who uses these pronouns the entire time. Why should I believe at this point you would have respect for me or anyone else who does the same? You've proven so much towards otherwise.

24 minutes ago, kuciol said:

Thats not the post im reffering to.

That's literally how I started engaging in this thread. So no, I didn't start anything, besides expressing my own confusion.

25 minutes ago, kuciol said:

You worked for such responses.

Or in other words: 'You deserve toxicity & hostile behavior'. For what exactly? Pointing out you doing such.

I have no idea what you want from me.

[dwqrf]

il y a 28 minutes, Xycelium a dit :

I have no idea what you want from me.

To not force your belief onto anyone else. We are here to talk english about a video game. We are not here to change grammatic or to adapt it to the will of others. You can make the choice to be called by any pronouns you want, it's fine, nobody is judging. But don't expect and don't force people to bend to your will. They spent their life learning a language, they are not going to change it for each individual having a different take on it.

If Xaku is called them/them it's because he is made of many different Warframes, but he is still a single individual, an object, and fictional for that matter ; so we may also refer to him as He. And that's fine, everybody understand, it's not a lack of respect. We don't do that to shame him, just for the sake of understanding one another. If he want to identify, or in that case, if DE wants him to identify as a them, cool, great, but people are still free to use correct english and use He, She, or even It.

You can identify as anything you want. But people have the right to identify their surroundings as they wish, and they moslty do so using the critera they learnt, to maximize communication. This subject is in the end just opinions versus opinions ; respect all of them, don't impose your ideas.

Edited September 7 by dwqrf

[Xycelium]

11 minutes ago, dwqrf said:

-snip-

As I said, singular they/them has been used for several centuries. It is quite literally correct English.

And not once did I ever force my belief onto anyone. I had no idea expressing mine was apparently considered such. Unless you consider me rightfully pointing out what Xaku is, then take that complaint up with DE then, not me.

[dwqrf]

il y a 4 minutes, Xycelium a dit :

As I said, singular they/them has been used for several centuries. It is quite literally correct English.

And not once did I ever force my belief onto anyone. I had no idea expressing mine was apparently considered such. Unless you consider me rightfully pointing out what Xaku is, then take that complaint up with DE then, not me.

No, you didn't only express your opinion ; you were offended and asked people to change the way they talked. You said multiples times you were confused about the way we talked about the Warframe and implied that we lack respect doing so. We didn't. Using a plural for a singular isn't correct english. It's confusing.
You have the right to use them/they when adressing Xaku. Please do so. But don't be confused or point out if other people aren't.

[Xycelium]

28 minutes ago, dwqrf said:

No, you didn't only express your opinion ; you were offended and asked people to change the way they talked. You said multiples times you were confused about the way we talked about the Warframe and implied that we lack respect doing so. We didn't. Using a plural for a singular isn't correct english. It's confusing.
You have the right to use them/they when adressing Xaku. Please do so. But don't be confused or point out if other people aren't.

I never asked for anyone to change how they talked. I did state I was confused in regards to what Warframe was being referred to because it is in fact confusing for me to read a thread on a given Warframe and hear different terms being used for them. And I only claimed a lack of respect for a single person, who quite literally did not show me any.

Also, they and them are not just plural. Both do have singular uses. If you do not know this, that's fine, but continuing to imply it's not proper English is not. It's never too late to learn this stuff.

[dwqrf]

Il y a 4 heures, Xycelium a dit :

Also, they and them are not just plural. Both do have singular uses. If you do not know this, that's fine, but continuing to imply it's not proper English is not. It's never too late to learn this stuff.

If you are talking about the old kings which were both a person and a vessel for God, which mean they were two in a single body, in a highly religious state, or even the Trinity, yes I know about it. But it was only one person in the world which used these pronouns, and while it was meant for the court, and you'd lose your head if you weren't using it, commoners weren't using it. Now in the actual society where any numbers of people can chose it, it's a different subject, and it's creating more confusion than anything. Xaku is many because he was made by many parts of differents fallen Warframes, and it's also a reference to the gender identity crisis, so if you want to respect his lore, or to defend the gender identity, you can, but most people won't for the sake of understanding each others.

It's a plural. Always has been, and people using it just for the singular self were highly full of themselves, so to speak. I don't imply it's not proper english, I mean it straight : it's not. It had occasional historical uses, but that's it. I also do find it disrespectul to challenge our use of it. Then again, I'm not an historian or english, but I'm a linguist.

Don't imply we lack respect and that we don't know things. We just don't use alternative definition of common knowledge, or else all meaning would be lost in the void.

The title of the topic is about Xaku, we use He since the beginning, even OP, everyone here understand. Don't make a big deal out of it, please.

Edited September 7 by dwqrf

[TennoPain]

He is ok 3/5 frame not even close to S+ still fun for some builds.

Its like having few cars you dont own just the best.

 

 

 

 

[sunderthefirmament]

7 hours ago, dwqrf said:

They spent their life learning a language, they are not going to change it for each individual having a different take on it.

The irony here is that you're using a singular they whether you realize it or not.  How do I know?  You said "life" instead of "lives."  So no, they wasn't (and isn't) just used as a singular for royalty.  Check the OED.  It's been a minute since I was in college, but the OED was widely regarded as a trusted source on the history of the English language at the time.

 

7 hours ago, dwqrf said:

To not force your belief onto anyone else.

That kind of seems like what you're doing, to be honest.  You're the one focusing on belief, because you insist on using the incorrect label for something DE designed.  It's every bit as nonsensical as if I constantly referred to Nintendo's Mario as a she or Princess Peach as a he.  Or, to bring it back to Warframe, referring to Nezha as anything other than he/him.  You've decided that you're going to call Xaku he, and nothing is going to change your mind.  You're the one operating on belief.  We have evidence that Xaku's pronouns are they/them, but you're sticking with your belief.

 

DE has stated that Xaku's pronouns are they/them.  If you're going to ignore that and use the wrong pronouns, you should expect people to correct you.  This is the internet, after all.  People love (futilely, as I am doing now) attempting to correct others.

 

But this isn't really what the thread is for, so I'll make a halfhearted and likely futile attempt to course correct here by listing another reason I don't think Xaku is super widely played: their augments.  Sevagoth's augments have helped him become a powerful nuker.  In contrast, Xaku's augments are lackluster at best.  Xaku's 3 augment might have some use, but it's a little tone deaf on DE's part.  Cycling abilities are clunky.  Abilities with excessive tap/holds are clunky.  Look at Lavos and his lack of popularity, and look at the complaints about Titania's 2.  An augment that requires constantly fiddling with a cycling ability isn't going to be one that many players will find immediately approachable or worth the slot.  Xaku's 2 augment is even more tone deaf.  Why would you want a healing augment on a frame whose breakpoints and stat scaling basically scream "glass cannon"?

[dwqrf]

il y a 37 minutes, sunderthefirmament a dit :

The irony here is that you're using a singular they whether you realize it or not.  How do I know?  You said "life" instead of "lives."  So no, they wasn't (and isn't) just used as a singular for royalty.  Check the OED.  It's been a minute since I was in college, but the OED was widely regarded as a trusted source on the history of the English language at the time.

That's the difference between being a native speaker and being a stranger. Sometimes, I do mistakes, but those are mistakes. I said "they" to speak about "the people", and I'm trying to accord it as much as possible even though sometimes I can forget some. It wasn't intentional, and you know it. It's a typo, not a meaningful choice of words.

The OED first entry says :
They :
Pronoun
The subjective case of the third person plural pronoun; the plural of he, she, or it.
 

il y a 37 minutes, sunderthefirmament a dit :

That kind of seems like what you're doing, to be honest.  You're the one focusing on belief, because you insist on using the incorrect label for something DE designed.  It's every bit as nonsensical as if I constantly referred to Nintendo's Mario as a she or Princess Peach as a he.  Or, to bring it back to Warframe, referring to Nezha as anything other than he/him.  You've decided that you're going to call Xaku he, and nothing is going to change your mind.  You're the one operating on belief.  We have evidence that Xaku's pronouns are they/them, but you're sticking with your belief.

And I don't impose my belief. I know you may think that way, but I'm just trying to find normal ways of communicating. It's one single warframe, and we may call it He in English, or in my language a She ; or we could also call it It for the matter of a virtual object. And as you can see, a lot of people are calling him He, from a lot of diffferent backgrounds and origin languages. It's not only my belief.

 

il y a 37 minutes, sunderthefirmament a dit :

DE has stated that Xaku's pronouns are they/them.  If you're going to ignore that and use the wrong pronouns, you should expect people to correct you.  This is the internet, after all.  People love (futilely, as I am doing now) attempting to correct others.

Calling Xaku them is surely totally factually right according to the lore ; but using a plural for someone/something singular leads to unnecessary confusion ; and even if you want to use it that way, and to point out that we are incorrect, please do so, but I won't change my opinion, my wording, and I won't be offended. There is a huge difference between pointing out the right wording, and being angry because we used the wrong wording.

And if you are offended because I won't use it for the sake of understanding one another ; that's a you problem. No one asked you to change your mind, we just asked you not to be offended because people are going to use the pronouns they feel pertinent to use for communication purpose. That's not imposing any belief, just defending our own education, and you shouldn't force us into your belief system just because you are upset about the words we use.

Edited September 7 by dwqrf

[sunderthefirmament]

13 minutes ago, dwqrf said:

That's the difference between being a native speaker and being a stranger. Sometimes, I do mistakes, but those are mistakes. I said "they" to speak about "the people", and I'm trying to accord it as much as possible even though sometimes I can forget some. It wasn't intentional, and you know it. It's a typo, not a meaningful choice of words.

The OED first entry says :
They :
Pronoun
The subjective case of the third person plural pronoun; the plural of he, she, or it.
 

And I don't impose my belief. I know you may think that way, but I'm just trying to find normal ways of communicating. It's one single warframe, and we may call it He in English, or in my language a She ; or we could also call it It for the matter of a virtual object. And as you can see, a lot of people are calling him He, from a lot of diffferent backgrounds and origin languages. It's not only my belief.

 

Calling Xaku them is surely totally factually right according to the lore ; but using a plural for someone/something singular leads to unnecessary confusion ; and even if you want to use it that way, and to point out that we are incorrect, please do so, but I won't change my opinion, my wording, and I won't be offended. There is a huge difference between pointing out the right wording, and being angry because we used the wrong wording.

And if you are offended because I won't use it for the sake of understanding one another ; that's a you problem. No one asked you to change your mind, we just asked you not to be offended because people are going to use the pronouns they feel pertinent to use for communication purpose. That's not imposing any belief, just defending our own education, and you shouldn't force us into your belief system just because you are upset about the words we use.

Yep, futile. Enjoy your day!