Underperforming Weapons And Feedback: Post Em Here.

[Unibot]

For the love of god - Torid!!

Even after recent patch its still lacking. I have more potential with synapse killing crowds than torid was. Now torid is even worse with no stopping power. And on top of that you add penta as a way better grenade launcher...

Buff torid status chance please

[AttackNitro]

Acrid is a piece of S#&$.

 

Honestly its a level 7 clan-tech weapon and it does F*** all damage:

 

Low base damage

Toxic damage no longer ignores armour

Travel time on bullets

DoT is terrible, does hardly any damage, doesn't activate procs even.

 

Honestly for a weapon that takes a week for the average player to build it's probably the biggest waste of materials in the game.

 

I get that it was OP before U11, but the nerf was too hard and now its the worst weapon i own.

[tidus1112]

-snip-

I'm kind of getting tired of this argument as I see that it falls on deaf ears. However, let me respond and reiterate my point once again:

 

On "Bows should be compared to snipers."

 

Well, that's kind of the case, yes. But bows are bows, and snipers are snipers. As far as damage goes, they are comparable, sure, but the mechanics are entirely different. I don't expect to get a bow that fires instantly with little charge speed, does a ton of dps, and can generally compete with some sniper rifle at speed. I get a bow expecting it to perform as designed: a bow. Same applies to the sniper rifle. I don't see what point you're trying to make. "They each require one precise shot at a time, therefore they should be compared as equals." If that were the case, that would also happen in real life. I don't see that happening in real life. Like I said, I use the bow because it is fun. Not because it is effective. If people have a problem with the effectiveness of their weapon, they should change. Just because the weapon is fun to use for some person somewhere doesn't mean it needs to be the best weapon to use. It depends on your playstyle.

 

On the whole Soma v Latron thing:

 

If mastery rank didn't factor in, it wouldn't be there. Mastery rank always factors in. Go play any other level based game anywhere and you'll see what is the high level equivalent of a sling outperforming the low level equivalent of a sniper rifle. If they didn't want the game to be level based, there wouldn't be levels. If the latron were to be buffed, it would also need to be xp locked at something that would equate to its respective effectiveness. If it was buffed to compete directly with the effectiveness of the soma, it should equivalently receive an xp lock of rank 6. If it was higher, it ought to receive a higher xp lock. Throwing mastery level out the window because "that's the stupidest S#&$ you've heard all week" isn't going to make it disappear, nor is it going to change the meaning of the xp lock in general. Higher ranked players ought to get access to better performing weapons. If that wasn't the case, there would be no reason to be a higher level, there would then be no goal (as this is a largely griding oriented game), and nobody would play.

 

Also, you equate the soma to a tommy gun and the latron to a death star beam. I'm not sure I understand where this is coming from. Even the wiki states the soma is a high caliber rifle. There's nothing anywhere that states it has to fire 9mm ammunition. It wouldn't be unreasonable to expect it is firing the exact same round as the latron, or something of similar size. It's a more advanced weapon, so that's completely reasonable. The latron shoots bullets, not crazy death beams of destruction. Just because a thing fires one bullet as opposed to 30 doesn't mean it ought to be more powerful. This is the same concept that is applied to bows that make people think "Well, my bow should do a million damage because it's only one shot and I reload every time." That concept is illogical. It becomes more logical when considering it properly as a video game, but only just. I still wouldn't expect my arrow to do more damage than a machine gun firing high caliber ammunition at a higher velocity. This comparison is made out of your own personal bias against the soma, not from an objective viewpoint. Nerfing the Soma is unnecessary. Buffing the Latron is unnecessary. An upgraded or downgraded version of either gun is not completely out of the question. I could see a DMR being made that does insane damage per hit, and having an XP lock of 6, and competing 1v1 with the soma. That could happen. I don't see the Latron, an early level gun that allows you to deal lots of damage while you move your way up the ranks, being buffed to the specs of the soma simply because it only fires one shot, and that means it should be a beam of destruction, blasting holes in everything that you shoot.

 

On melee:

 

It has its place. The reason it isn't effective isn't necessarily because it doesn't kill things, it's mostly because things kill whatever is holding the weapon. I'm not going to go over this topic again. Main point is that it does the job you would expect it to do. We aren't jedi, we don't have lightsabers, I don't expect these swords and things to outperform the guns at higher levels. At lower levels, though, you can easily kill hordes of enemies without even trying, while a gun would at least require the effort of putting your crosshair somewhere in the vicinity of the enemy. Again, it serves its purpose.

 

On effectiveness vs fun:

 

There is a massive difference in these two things. Some people try to go for an hour on pluto. These people could no do this with an mk1 braton, no matter how much fun they thing that gun is. Once again, some people may have fun spamming Nekros' soul punch all the time. That's not going to land them on the top of the leaderboards. If they want to be on the leaderboards, they have to use competitive weapons. This means the weapons that are best at doing whatever it is they need to do. If you're running around with a Lato trying to kill level 80 mobs, you're probably just going to get downed a lot and end up causing a lot of trouble for your teammates. That's not to say you can't use weapons you have fun with. I use my bow and my kunai nearly all the time. They are fun weapons. I enjoy that kind of playstyle. It's not the absolute most effective playstyle possible, but I can make it work. I find the right mission types and the right teammates to help accent what my playstyle is. Let me take your example of the Cernos. If you buy it with the intention of going to solo grineer defense missions, you're going to die. Period. It doesn't matter how much fun you have being massacred by grineer, it's going to happen. If, however, you get the cernos, and go with your teammates to a high level corpus defense mission, eventually, when your friends are going "ah, I hate these shields, they're so ridiculous!" you can whip out your cernos and pop the high level enemies shields away. Again, go where your playstyle is suited. There's no reason to change the game or the weapons to suit your playstyle across all areas.

 

On the whole how many people are using a soma thing:

 

Doesn't matter. If they have fun using their soma, let them use their soma. What's wrong with having a good gun? It's a goal for people to work toward. It takes a while to get to mastery rank 6, and eventually, I'm sure they're going to add something better than the soma. That one will be mastery rank 8 or 9 or whatever. It doesn't really matter what OTHER people are using. I don't care what everyone else is using. "But they get more kills than me!" Yeah, don't care. I don't care about my score or my damage percentage or my whatever. I just have fun playing the game. Coincidentally, I was still able to manage getting in 50 minutes on Palus with me and one other person not too long ago. At the time, neither of us had the Soma. Imagine that. How can you have fun when you worry so much about what everyone else is doing?

 

 

TL;DR

 

Let me reiterate my entire point. First let me point out, my use of the word "you" is meant for anyone reading this that my statement applies to, not just you. I don't mean this to be offensive, and I really don't understand why you have to get so hostile about all of this. A lot of the people on this thread are whining about their playstyles not being good at things they shouldn't be good at. More importantly, they don't understand the reason people play this game in the first place: to grind and get good gear. If there wasn't top level gear to get, there would be a lot less people playing the game. Making a high level gun is a good way to get people playing. My main point, however, is that you should just play however you want to. If you die, cool. Just have fun being killed. If you don't like being killed, rank up your gun or play at a lower level. If at that point you still aren't having fun, do something else. The fun part about this game is that there are scaling levels of enemies. No matter how good or bad you are, there are missions available for you to play. Just go play what works, and have fun. Also, if you want to play a certain playstyle, and it doesn't work solo, try to work it into a team. Most playstyles that might seem abstract or ineffective at first may actually be extremely effective when used with the support of a good team. I feel like people are just generally misunderstanding what prerequisites would be necessary to consider buffing or nerfing a weapon or playstyle. Obviously, right now, a lot of the elemental weapons are kind of awful, especially the clan tech weapons. Those require an excessive amount of resources to build, a ridiculous amount of time, and are high level weapons. They do elemental damage, though. They might need a buff. Other than stuff like that, though, I don't see many buffs or nerfs that need to go around.

 

 

Still TL;DR

 

Basically, most people dont understand what would require a buff/nerf and what wouldn't. The clan tech weapons right now, for example, have been pretty badly nerfed because of damage 2.0. Considering the time and effort that goes into these, that would probably justify consideration for a buff. The latron not being as good as the soma wouldn't justify consideration for a buff. It might, however, justify consideration for a new DMR that could potentially compete on the same level as the Soma.

 

 

 

 

Anyways, I'm just going to leave it at that. Hopefully someone actually understands what I'm trying to point out here. I don't intend to continue arguing the same point just for it not to be understood time and time again.

Edited December 14, 2013 by tidus1112

[Volthorne]

Anyways, I'm just going to leave it at that. Hopefully someone actually understands what I'm trying to point out here. I don't intend to continue arguing the same point just for it not to be understood time and time again.

I'm not sure even YOU understand what you're arguing for. Repetitive boring gameplay with cookie-cutter weapon load-outs? Grinding because there's no actual game to play? Are you even reading this S#&$ as you type it or do you momentarily lose consciousness and wake up with one more post written and go "meh, whatever, I'll just hit the post button and see what happens"?

 

On bows: I see your point. I do. I'm not going to say any more on this, we can agree, disagree, whatever, this particular topic has run its course.

 

On Soma vs. Latron: The biggest problem here is that the Soma has no downsides which enables it to be a better everything than literally every other rifle. You could argue that the Soma has roughly 1/4th of the Latron's base damage (you'd think that, logically, x4 the damage would mean at least twice as large a bullet, right? Following up on the whole "Tommy gun vs. 'death star laser' thing, although it would be more correct to compare the Latron to an M14 or there-about). You'd be technically correct... until crits get factored in. Then the Soma not only has better accuracy, but also higher effective damage, a faster rate of fire, larger clip, higher proc rate for effects, and, oh yes, virtually no recoil. For three measly mods (the only one that's really hard to get is Hammer Shot, but has a lower overall impact than the other two), you can get DOUBLE the damage of the Latron, whereas those same three only give a semi-decent increase when slotted into Latron. Is this even remotely balanced, even for an MR6 rifle? Not really, it's a low skill, low risk, high reward weapon, which should never ever exist. But what do I know, I'm not part of the Soma master race, so my opinion is invalid.

 

On melee: Again, if it's not effective except for lower-level stuff, why even bother to have a designated melee equipment slot? Just merge secondary and melee, or remove melee altogether! Problem solved! Except... we're.... space ninja (ninja is plural for ninja)... and a ninja could make even a twig lethal.... I guess we'd better find some way to make it effective then. Because, you know, melee is one of the three core pillars that Warframe is supposed to be built around. Whether its combos, or buffs, something needs to be done.

 

On effectiveness vs. fun: Do they need to be different? Why? Is there some rule written in some obscure game-development tome that states "Thou shalt not mix fun and effective, it must be one or the other!". But this obviously isn't the case all the time: Bows are fun. They are also effective. The Lato isn't fun, it's also not effective. Twin Vipers are hella fun, but they're not the most effective secondary. The Soma is boring as S#&$ (I have taken literal S#&$s that are more fun than the Soma), but it's incredibly effective. The lifespan of your game easily triples if you have weapons that are both fun and effective. And yes, I am aware that it is very easy to build a loadout where your secondary and melee cover the two factions your primary is not good against, but that's irrelevant to my point.

 

On the "Soma count": Yes, it does matter. It matters very much. I'm not against having "good" guns, or people having fun with the Soma. I have a problem with it being the god-tier rifle that people feel forced into using because they cannot contribute to their team otherwise (slight exaggeration, point stands). I have a problem with Mastery Rank locking being an excuse for putting out such a ridiculously and blatantly overpowered weapon so that it can be written off as "fine" because it requires "effort" to get. I have a problem with a weapon that can only be beaten by a clone of itself with increased stats. You and your friend getting to 50 minutes on Palus without Somas is irrelevant, any pair of well-coordinated and well-equipped players could do that. The Soma is OP, it needs a serious nerf, either in its critical multiplier (from x3.3 down to x2), crit rate (30% down to 15%), accuracy (28.6 down to 15 - 20), or recoil (it is supposedly a "high caliber" rifle, why does it not have a massive recoil from all the large bullets it shoots?) or some combination thereof (preferably not accuracy AND recoil at the same time though, that would be over-nerfing).

Edited December 16, 2013 by Volthorne

[thejynxed]

^ Prime example of exactly what DE should not do (like they did with the Brakk, the Hek, and a few others before).

 

Why? Because this player is completely ignoring any high level/end-game content whatsoever and all I see is him crying for a Soma nerf.

 

If he wants to be this myopic, then I don't even....

 

Try using a Boar Prime. Has more damage output than Soma, at an astonishing 39k DPS (15.76k with reload factored in). That's 2.2k over the Soma and 3.3k over the Synapse (if you ignore Crit Build Synapse through Volt Electric Shield, in which case Synapse does more than any other gun in the entire game, still, and goes to even more stupidly high numbers if you're wearing Corrosive Aura or Rifle Amp). This gun also has a longer falloff range than most of the other shotguns, and is in effect, the strongest crowd control weapon in the entire game (aka, Defense, Survival, etc will all let this weapon shine).

 

Like I've stated a bazillion times recently - stop asking for nerfs, get others buffed, ask for mechanics changes that are more unique/fun (for instance, I like the sniper/bow charge mechanic and wish they had secondaries that used the same thing).

 

What we don't need, is more weapons added to the pile of "Can't be used for T3s or any high level alert", aka NERFS and more added to the pile of "I think I'll take this weapon along, because it looks cool and is fun AND viable" aka BUFFS.

[Nagisawa]

An easier question is what weapons are good.  You'd get a much shorter list, easier to manage.

[Volthorne]

^ Prime example of exactly what DE should not do (like they did with the Brakk, the Hek, and a few others before).

Why? Because this player is completely ignoring any high level/end-game content whatsoever and all I see is him crying for a Soma nerf.

If he wants to be this myopic, then I don't even....

Try using a Boar Prime. Has more damage output than Soma, at an astonishing 39k DPS (15.76k with reload factored in). That's 2.2k over the Soma and 3.3k over the Synapse (if you ignore Crit Build Synapse through Volt Electric Shield, in which case Synapse does more than any other gun in the entire game, still, and goes to even more stupidly high numbers if you're wearing Corrosive Aura or Rifle Amp). This gun also has a longer falloff range than most of the other shotguns, and is in effect, the strongest crowd control weapon in the entire game (aka, Defense, Survival, etc will all let this weapon shine).

Like I've stated a bazillion times recently - stop asking for nerfs, get others buffed, ask for mechanics changes that are more unique/fun (for instance, I like the sniper/bow charge mechanic and wish they had secondaries that used the same thing).

What we don't need, is more weapons added to the pile of "Can't be used for T3s or any high level alert", aka NERFS and more added to the pile of "I think I'll take this weapon along, because it looks cool and is fun AND viable" aka BUFFS.

I'm not sure why you're posting here, in this thread. Did you feel compelled to spout random garbage all of a sudden? How do you know for sure that I don't play in high-level content? You don't, so your speculation is both meaningless and makes you look silly.

As for the Boar Prime having 39k DPS? That's the potential maximum DPS. The actual DPS is going to be much lower, unless you can guarantee multishot getting its triple-shot proc 100% of the time, and every single pellet landing on the enemy, which isn't going to happen unless you're right in their face (which is often also the "you're going to die in the next three seconds" zone, especially if we're talking about high-level content). I think that's pretty fair for a gun that's supposed to be used at near to point-blank range, and has basically zero effective damage past mid-range.

That brings me to my next point: trade-offs. The Synapse does have really high DPS, true. It is also pin-point accurate (I would guess the beam is probably 1px by 1 px), which unfortunately means you can't just point in the general direction of enemies and pull the trigger. It also has a hard-capped range, but makes up for this by being of the continuous-damage type, which allows sweeping motions to be more effective than with other guns (it does need a serious nerf to its crit rate, 50% is absurd especially on a continuous-damage weapon. 10 or 15% might be okay. The Volt shield thing needs to be fixed, I would suggest modifying the damage of projectiles fired through it, changing 50% of all damage that would be dealt into the electrical type instead of adding extra damage). So what does the Soma lack? Accuracy? Nope, 28.6, same as the Latron. Rate of Fire? Nope, faster than the Gorgon. Small magazine? You must be joking. Recoil? Might as well be the Ignis, Flux, Synapse, etc. Low crit rate/damage? Almost on-par with the synapse for rate, and has the highest crit damage out of.... everything. Low base damage? Negated by crits. Oh! I know what it trades for all of these godly stats! I know this! Pick me! The answer is "balance". You could argue that it has poor ammo economy, but there's a mod for that. The Soma is literally untouchable as far as bad decisions go, and it needs to be rectified.

You say "stop asking for nerfs, only buff things" and you call ME myopic? Think on what that would end up as. "Oh, great, X weapon got buffed to be stronger than Y weapon! Now Y needs a buff! But enemies are also really easy to kill. Better buff those too" ad infinitum, and then we end up with Final Warframe VII, staring Large Number Syndrome. Your view of "nerfs = garbage weapons/buffs = fun weapons" is also inherently flawed, but I'll let you figure out why (HINT: It's the previous two sentences). And finally, as I covered in my last post, viable/effective does not equal fun, and I wish people would stop associating the two as being one single concept, because they're not.

Edited December 17, 2013 by Volthorne

[zzang]

What people are dumb enough to ask for nerfs in a topic that is supposed to check opinions what weapons should get buffed?

 

these trolls get worse every day or their payment raised.

[Inez]

For people like Volthorne, trolling the forums IS the game.

Luckily the forums have an ignore feature.

Detailed nerf rants on weapons you've never used should set a flag that we can choose to auto add that person to our ignore list.

[Lord.Finster]

Back on topic. I'm disappointed in the Afuris. They are pretty weak because they really don't have anything going for them.

I'd love to see them get the Soma treatment. High crit chance and crit damage and a more balanced base damage. They should become a gun you would like to consider using Hollow Point on.

As it stands they have no chance against Twin Vipers or Gremlins.

[Volthorne]

Back on topic. I'm disappointed in the Afuris. They are pretty weak because they really don't have anything going for them.

I'd love to see them get the Soma treatment. High crit chance and crit damage and a more balanced base damage. They should become a gun you would like to consider using Hollow Point on.

As it stands they have no chance against Twin Vipers or Gremlins.

Dude. Afuris have a lot going for them. High clip-size and a decent fire-rate. Stack Barrel Diffusion on there, toss in Lethal torrent, and two elemental mods of your choice (Hornet Strike is a given), and you've got a pretty lethal side-arm. Your last two mod slots I would suggest ammo mutation and either +max ammo or +clip size.

[zzang]

For people like Volthorne, trolling the forums IS the game.

Luckily the forums have an ignore feature.

Detailed nerf rants on weapons you've never used should set a flag that we can choose to auto add that person to our ignore list.

word hes trolling extremely hard probably a com manager should look investigate it.

[Nagisawa]

For people like Volthorne, trolling the forums IS the game.

Luckily the forums have an ignore feature.

Detailed nerf rants on weapons you've never used should set a flag that we can choose to auto add that person to our ignore list.

The issue there is you'd be ignoring about...  70% of the forums.

[Tigercloud]

Just wanted to post to say with the recent buff, Boltor is pretty much fixed. Not as good as Soma, obviously, but then what weapons are. I took it to 30 minutes on T3 Survival, and it had some trouble taking down heavies at that point, but I guess that's reasonable. But the faster projectile speed and slight damage buff have helped a lot.

[ThePresident777]

Shotguns past 15-20 meters.

 

THIS!  And it's CLICHED.  I could see some shotguns be cliched, but, not all of them.  We have the Braton as a "typical" or "normal" assualt rife which provides a point of referrance for other assault rifles to depart from.  But, there is nothing resembling a normal/ish shotgun in this game anymore.  They're all wacked just like in every other game.

[Volthorne]

What people are dumb enough to ask for nerfs in a topic that is supposed to check opinions what weapons should get buffed?

 

these trolls get worse every day or their payment raised.

For people like Volthorne, trolling the forums IS the game.

Luckily the forums have an ignore feature.

Detailed nerf rants on weapons you've never used should set a flag that we can choose to auto add that person to our ignore list.

I wouldn't have even touched the subject of nerfing if tools like tidus1112 and thejynxed could keep to the damn topic and contribute appropriately (not saying "lel, evryting s fin brah" when everything is clearly NOT fine, otherwise this thread wouldn't exist in the first place). If you had even bothered to look at the first two pages, you would see that I made some posts about very reasonable ways to buff under-performing weapons. But I guess reading is hard, what with those pesky words that keep rearranging themselves when put into paragraphs more than 20 words long.

 

word hes trolling extremely hard probably a com manager should look investigate it.

Yes, I'm definitely trolling. You had better report me to the mods before I make more logical arguments (which will then spread to the rest of the forum in an amazing display of common sense and rational thought, forever dooming the mods to having more free time!).

 

 

THIS!  And it's CLICHED.  I could see some shotguns be cliched, but, not all of them.  We have the Braton as a "typical" or "normal" assualt rife which provides a point of referrance for other assault rifles to depart from.  But, there is nothing resembling a normal/ish shotgun in this game anymore.  They're all wacked just like in every other game.

The problem is that DE can't seem to find a way to make them fun or give them awesome mechanics, and once the damage-falloff is gone, people will go back to sniping with the Hek. Arguably you could make the spread increase in the same way damage currently decreases, but the you run into the issue of clearing out hordes of enemies from a long distance - or high up - due to the large spread. What if they did sort of a mix-up between the two though? After a certain distance, let's say 15m, shotguns lose half their damage and the spread also doubles? Might that be acceptable? You can still shoot stuff at range for a reduced damage, but it's no longer ridiculously weak, nor it it a sniper.

Edited December 19, 2013 by Volthorne

[Xana_Skullsunder]

Spectra, and the other high-fire rate secondaries need a looking at, I'd say. Spectra is at the top of the list thanks to the hard range limit combined with everything else, but the (a)fruis and (dual) vipers are up there too. High Rate of fire guns + low damage + limited ammo count due to being a secondary is a recipe for disaster, even with ammo mutation. I personally feel like they should get a max ammo buff. Not quite to primary level, maybe around 400?

 

I understand that they're secondaries, but other secondaries can be used exclusively through a mission without much hassle, unlike these.

 

The Vulkar... the reload is painful, and the magazine is just too small. It's cool that the recoil is so low that you can basically score consective headshots, even when you're firing as fast as possible, but the other stats just drag the gun down too much. It, and the Vectis are the only sniper rifles currently available to people outside clans (and the Lanka is a wonky gun that not everyone is going to like). There is currently no contest between the two.

[Volthorne]

Spectra, and the other high-fire rate secondaries need a looking at, I'd say. Spectra is at the top of the list thanks to the hard range limit combined with everything else, but the (a)fruis and (dual) vipers are up there too. High Rate of fire guns + low damage + limited ammo count due to being a secondary is a recipe for disaster, even with ammo mutation. I personally feel like they should get a max ammo buff. Not quite to primary level, maybe around 400?

 

I understand that they're secondaries, but other secondaries can be used exclusively through a mission without much hassle, unlike these.

 

The Vulkar... the reload is painful, and the magazine is just too small. It's cool that the recoil is so low that you can basically score consective headshots, even when you're firing as fast as possible, but the other stats just drag the gun down too much. It, and the Vectis are the only sniper rifles currently available to people outside clans (and the Lanka is a wonky gun that not everyone is going to like). There is currently no contest between the two.

The problem with ammo for secondaries (and this also largely applies to primaries too) is that DE did it the lazy way and just went "meh, everything gets X ammo", which allows for crazy imbalance. My Lat Prime, for example, has never used more than roughly half its total ammo before the mission ends or I'm back up to full. Ogris and Penta certainly don't need 540 total ammo, that's straight up absurd (where do you even carry all those rockets and grenades anyway?). On the other hand, the Gorgon goes through 540 ammo at a stupidly fast rate.

 

I would suggest: semi-auto weapons get a pool half the size of the current one (270 for primaries, 105 for secondaries), and burst-fire weapons get three quarters (405p/152s). Launchers get one fifth (108p/22s). Machine guns (not including Soma) would get an extra 25% (675). Machine pistols get a whopping 50% (315)! Full-auto (not exceeding 10-12 RPS, otherwise it falls under "machine" weapons) weapons remain at their current pool limits. This should be a fairly reasonable starting point.

 

As for the Vulkar... cut down its reload to 3s flat, leave magazine as-is (maybe up to 12 shots. Maybe.), make it a "double barrel" sniper (to do something cool with it) - meaning it fires two consecutive shots per click (not to be mistaken for multi-shot). Would you agree to something similar?

Edited December 19, 2013 by Volthorne

[Xana_Skullsunder]

As for the Vulkar... cut down its reload to 3s flat, leave magazine as-is (maybe up to 12 shots. Maybe.), make it a "double barrel" sniper (to do something cool with it) - meaning it fires two consecutive shots per click (not to be mistaken for multi-shot). Would you agree to something similar?

 

How about keep the reload long, but make the magazine bigger, maybe ~10 shots like the Lanka has? Vulkar users could then out-damage Vectis users in short bursts. The low recoil means you could put a full magazine into a boss' face while the Vectis guy is still on his 2nd or 3rd round.

 

The ammo stuff... idk. That seems like something that should get its own topic, so this one can concentrate on other matters.

Edited December 19, 2013 by XanaSkullpulper

[Freelancer27]

I feel Lato needs a back-buff. Just look at Aklato, it doesn't seem right. :(

[Zyrusticae]

[snipped for length]

 

What we don't need, is more weapons added to the pile of "Can't be used for T3s or any high level alert", aka NERFS and more added to the pile of "I think I'll take this weapon along, because it looks cool and is fun AND viable" aka BUFFS.

I always wonder why folks like you say to buff everything instead of just nerfing high-level content (and, at the same time, the overpowered outliers) so that they're not so insanely all-or-nothing. 

Edited December 19, 2013 by Zyrusticae

[Fundance]

Embolist is definately not bad, and never has been.

 

No, the range is not an impediment for a skilled player.

Edited December 19, 2013 by Fundance

[Raijinmeister]

Dera should gain another projectil speed buff,increase base stats or rework the dmg type to radiation or magnetic because right now is juts an expensive braton

[Xana_Skullsunder]

Dera should gain another projectil speed buff,increase base stats or rework the dmg type to radiation or magnetic because right now is juts an expensive braton

 

No love for the pinpoint accuracy? Though I guess it is canceled out by the travel time.

[Skaleek]

Been testing out the miter, can anyone tell me the effective build for this weapon? Shred, speed trigger, serration, metal auger, split chamber what else?