Retired Weapons, Should They Stay Retired?

[Chaz_Darkbane]

I kind of agree, The Gorgon blueprint should drop from something if it isn't going to be in the marketplace, a lot of the time you simply can't compete with someone packing a modded out gorgon and without easier access to it you wont be able to.

[SquirmyBurrito]

I kind of agree, The Gorgon blueprint should drop from something if it isn't going to be in the marketplace, a lot of the time you simply can't compete with someone packing a modded out gorgon and without easier access to it you wont be able to.

 

Wait what? The only way you're having trouble competing is if you're still in low-mid tier weapons and don't have access to some of the more powerful weapons.

[TheNoobishNub]

I kind of agree, The Gorgon blueprint should drop from something if it isn't going to be in the marketplace, a lot of the time you simply can't compete with someone packing a modded out gorgon and without easier access to it you wont be able to.

The point of the thread is not to compete in dps, but more of the avaiablity of rifle impact weapons.

You don't need to have a glaive, but its a nice to have. You can use kestrel which has far more utility for less damage. Most blueprints from alerts are nice to have weapons.

[Makya]

I kind of agree, The Gorgon blueprint should drop from something if it isn't going to be in the marketplace, a lot of the time you simply can't compete with someone packing a modded out gorgon and without easier access to it you wont be able to.

Umm Soma > Gorgon if you must know. So if you want to compete with a modded gorgon get a modded Soma and kick their butts.

[rhoenix]

Soma may do more damage due to crit, but it's not a gun that has the same role as the Gorgon. There is certainly room for both in one's arsenal.

[SquirmyBurrito]

Soma may do more damage due to crit, but it's not a gun that has the same role as the Gorgon. There is certainly room for both in one's arsenal.

 

Not disagreeing with the last bit, but what difference exists between their roles that the Soma can't just brute-force its way into?

[rhoenix]

Not disagreeing with the last bit, but what difference exists between their roles that the Soma can't just brute-force its way into?

Basically, the Gorgon's inherent shield-killing power from it's high Impact damage goes a long way toward making it a terror against shielded enemies. Yes, you can mod the Soma to do something similar through brute force, but for coop play, having a Tenno shredding groups of enemies' shields so another player can finish them off with another weapon works very well. It's for that reason I consider the Soma more a finisher weapon, and the Gorgon much more a suppression weapon.

[SquirmyBurrito]

Basically, the Gorgon's inherent shield-killing power from it's high Impact damage goes a long way toward making it a terror against shielded enemies. Yes, you can mod the Soma to do something similar through brute force, but for coop play, having a Tenno shredding groups of enemies' shields so another player can finish them off with another weapon works very well. It's for that reason I consider the Soma more a finisher weapon, and the Gorgon much more a suppression weapon.

 

Okay... I can understand wanting a Gorgon, I just disagree with acting as if a person is at a disadvantage when a squadmate has one and you don't (not you specifically). 

[Chaz_Darkbane]

Okay... I can understand wanting a Gorgon, I just disagree with acting as if a person is at a disadvantage when a squadmate has one and you don't (not you specifically). 

 Perhaps is simply seems that way then. At lower levels of mastery there is simply nothing a player can do but farm and grind out pieces to weapons or mods in order to attempt to compete at a higher tier. While the Gorgon (and the soma back when it was a lower mastery rank, still kicking myself for not grabbing their blueprints) once filled a transitionary role for players trying to do higher content there is simply no new gun to fill that void for those who are lower mastery rank. When it comes down to simple kill power a player stuck at a lower tier will have to jump through hoops in order to get their current weapon to a state that can aide in higher content productively while those who have the tools are able do provide much more direct support. 

 

For example the Gorgon allowed for a fantastic transition from the Grineer to fighting corpus enemies and allowing players to partake in higher level corpus missions, allowing them to get their unique drops and face heavily shielded enemies and bosses. 

 

That transition no longer exists ( at least when it comes to an assault rifle), so instead of being able to readily get new equipment for new threats a different approach must be taken and that is for the most part farming. A lot. Get out there farm for a few days to grab a serration and a rupture mod and watch as your good ol' Braton becomes nearly as good at popping shields as a base Gorgon. But if you take into account the fact that the people with a Gorgon probably already have those mods, your still behind in terms of overall effectiveness and worse yet the item is no longer available in case you ever wanted to try out that role.

 

Now I am not trying to start a fight, I don't like arguing with people and I don't want to spend the next few days checking back on a forum post just to see if I have to defend my opinion. I just wanted to add some context as to why I used the gorgon as an example. It has a solid role as a heavy fire power weapon capable of shredding shields like a hot knife through butter, and what bothers me about a weapon like it being retired from the market (hopefully it becomes a grineer research project or something) is that with its loss you lose the availability of a role and playstyle to other players who weren't fortunate enough to get it when it was around. 

 

I am sorry if it seemed as if I was saying "the Gorgon is overpowered or the best weapon out there" in my initial post, and I apologize if the misunderstanding got people angry or miffed about it. The point I wanted to bring was that it provided a unique role to the battlefield, especially at lower mastery ranks and its removal from the market (and perhaps other weapons future removal) is bound to impact the playstyle and available options to people who want to fulfill a certain niche or have a bigger impact at earlier levels of play.

Edited December 15, 2013 by Chaz_Darkbane

[SquirmyBurrito]

 Perhaps is simply seems that way then. At lower levels of mastery there is simply nothing a player can do but farm and grind out pieces to weapons or mods in order to attempt to compete at a higher tier. While the Gorgon (and the soma back when it was a lower mastery rank, still kicking myself for not grabbing their blueprints) once filled a transitionary role for players trying to do higher content there is simply no new gun to fill that void for those who are lower mastery rank. When it comes down to simple kill power a player stuck at a lower tier will have to jump through hoops in order to get their current weapon to a state that can aide in higher content productively while those who have the tools are able do provide much more direct support. 

 

For example the Gorgon allowed for a fantastic transition from the Grineer to fighting corpus enemies and allowing players to partake in higher level corpus missions, allowing them to get their unique drops and face heavily shielded enemies and bosses. 

 

That transition no longer exists ( at least when it comes to an assault rifle), so instead of being able to readily get new equipment for new threats a different approach must be taken and that is for the most part farming. A lot. Get out there farm for a few days to grab a serration and a rupture mod and watch as your good ol' Braton becomes nearly as good at popping shields as a base Gorgon. But if you take into account the fact that the people with a Gorgon probably already have those mods, your still behind in terms of overall effectiveness and worse yet the item is no longer available in case you ever wanted to try out that role.

 

Now I am not trying to start a fight, I don't like arguing with people and I don't want to spend the next few days checking back on a forum post just to see if I have to defend my opinion. I just wanted to add some context as to why I used the gorgon as an example. It has a solid role as a heavy fire power weapon capable of shredding shields like a hot knife through butter, and what bothers me about a weapon like it being retired from the market (hopefully it becomes a grineer research project or something) is that with its loss you lose the availability of a role and playstyle to other players who weren't fortunate enough to get it when it was around. 

 

I am sorry if it seemed as if I was saying "the Gorgon is overpowered or the best weapon out there" in my initial post, and I apologize if the misunderstanding got people angry or miffed about it. The point I wanted to bring was that it provided a unique role to the battlefield, especially at lower mastery ranks and its removal from the market (and perhaps other weapons future removal) is bound to impact the playstyle and available options to people who want to fulfill a certain niche or have a bigger impact at earlier levels of play.

 

What do you mean by lower mastery? I agree we need more impact rifles, but you aren't completely out of luck if you are trying to do low-mid corpus runs. Many weapons not designed to fight corpus will still do quite well against them. And realistically, what you're describing never existed. During the times that the Gorgon was on the market you could use pretty much whatever you wanted to kill them. Just slap some electricity on it and you'd be good. When impact, puncture, and slash got introduced the Gorgon was already retired. So I'm not quite sure what you're talking about.

 

People with a Gorgon probably have a lot more than just a serration. A lot of them probably also have the soma, or some other weapon that can do the Gorgon's job, but better. That role isn't lost because:

1. That role is fairly new (D2.0)

2. There are other weapons that can do the job.

3. The Gorgon isn't the only impact weapon.

 

TL;DR- The Gorgon didn't provide a unique role, the Soma can fill its role through sheer brute-force. I honestly do not see how its lack of availability has changed much, it can still be acquired through login rewards (so they'll get it eventually) and there are other weapons that can fill its 'role'. That role being something newly assigned to it via D2.0. 

You don't need an impact weapon to kill Corpus.

Edited December 15, 2013 by SquirmyBurrito

[AdmiralAvalanche]

as already stated by many in the post, i believe only a select few should be reinstated into the marketplace (gorgon doesn't really count as it is still pretty easy to get with log-in rewards) due to the fact that whilst they were monotonous and outperformed in field due to restricted values on damage, they could now fin a comfy home in various different niches and preferences that the new damage system provides.

 

take for example the aforementioned ether daggers that that have the ability to cleave enemies, decimate flesh, and have a really fast burst attack speed(3 slash burst every 0.8 seconds), and whilst many different weapons share these attributes,(fang variants, heavy weapons and the short dual axes weapons like the dual cleavers) this weapon when reinstated will have a unique blend and designated feel to it. the same of which could be apply to the boar and gorgon.

Edited December 15, 2013 by AdmiralAvalanche

[SquirmyBurrito]

as already stated by many in the post, i believe only a select few should be reinstated into the marketplace (gorgon doesn't really count as it is still pretty easy to get with log-in rewards) due to the fact that whilst they were monotonous and outperformed in field due to restricted values on damage, they could now fin a comfy home in various different niches and preferences that the new damage system provides.

 

take for example the aforementioned ether daggers that that have the ability to cleave enemies, decimate flesh, and have a really fast burst attack speed(3 slash burst every 0.8 seconds), and whilst many different weapons share these attributes,(fang variants, heavy weapons and the short dual axes weapons like the dual cleavers) this weapon when reinstated will have a unique blend and designated feel to it. the same of which culd be applie to the boar and gorgon.

 

That bit about it being like the fang encouraged me to finally make the Ether daggers... and I hate them. I can't believe I just used 35 plat to rush them.

 

Edit: They're like the Fang's fat cousin.

Edited December 15, 2013 by SquirmyBurrito

[StanicEnemy]

I think the Gorgon should be a Clan tech reversed engineered weapon.

+1 pretty much yes it should be a clan tech reversed engineered weapon.

[AdmiralAvalanche]

That bit about it being like the fang encouraged me to finally make the Ether daggers... and I hate them. I can't believe I just used 35 plat to rush them.

meh, personal preference, I've seen many ether dagger master-race people in my long time playing, and I've seen a few people who hate them with a passion, im indifferent to them though it would be nice to be able to test weapons first before committing, but that is a discussion for another day!

Edited December 15, 2013 by AdmiralAvalanche

[SquirmyBurrito]

meh, personal preference, I've seen many ether dagger master-race people in my long time playing, and I've seen a few people who hate them with a passion, im indifferent to them though it would be nice to be able to test weapons first before committing, but that is a discussion for another day!

 

Okay, I got a fury in them. Much better, but still feel like the Fang's fat cousin.

[TheNoobishNub]

+1 pretty much yes it should be a clan tech reversed engineered weapon.

Wouldnt that make gorgon harder to craft? And shouldn't we just add a new rifle to clan tech similar to gorgon instead of changing gorgon to clan tech? And this would force people to join or make clans, which I don't think some people will be too happy about. I think some people are part of a clan just for clan weps.

[MirageKnight]

If you're going to make the Gorgon a clan weapon, you're going to need to make it WORTH that status. The other thing to consider is where would you put it? Logic says Chemical lab but then you'd need to add Detonite Injectors to the weapon's cost.

 

That said, I wouldn't mind if the Gorgon was re-introduced as a clan tech weapon as long as damage got buffed a little and the clip size upped to 100. Honestly I'd like to see it get a "v" or "-" polarity slot but that would never happen : /

[Skull]

Hello everyone, would the Ether Dagger be ever reincorporated to the market? I have wish so badly the would give a chance to players to get deleted items from market like the Ether Dagger, or at least that you could trade weapons or even just BP. We didn't all have the chance to get this weapons :( ...

[CapricaSix]

Hello everyone, would the Ether Dagger be ever reincorporated to the market? I have wish so badly the would give a chance to players to get deleted items from market like the Ether Dagger, or at least that you could trade weapons or even just BP. We didn't all have the chance to get this weapons :( ...

I'm in the same situation as you with the Boar and Machete... I don't really mind too much that they're removed from the market {although I'd prefer if all of them were just added to clan tech or something less RNG-dependant}, but I do mind that we've never even had a simple warning like they did with the Gorgon and ammo boxes back then. Sucky move DE.

[SquirmyBurrito]

Hello everyone, would the Ether Dagger be ever reincorporated to the market? I have wish so badly the would give a chance to players to get deleted items from market like the Ether Dagger, or at least that you could trade weapons or even just BP. We didn't all have the chance to get this weapons :( ...

 

You missed your chance.

 

I'm in the same situation as you with the Boar and Machete... I don't really mind too much that they're removed from the market {although I'd prefer if all of them were just added to clan tech or something less RNG-dependant}, but I do mind that we've never even had a simple warning like they did with the Gorgon and ammo boxes back then. Sucky move DE.

 

Wait... what? They most definitely DID give players a warning that those weapons were getting retired. I remember this in clear detail because that was the only reason why I purchased their BPs.

[CapricaSix]

You missed your chance.

 

 

Wait... what? They most definitely DID give players a warning that those weapons were getting retired. I remember this in clear detail because that was the only reason why I purchased their BPs.

So do I, but only for the Gorgon and the Ammo Boxes as I said, I never knew they were going to remove Ether Dagger, Boar and Machete. I'm always lurking around the forums and I play the game daily. Clearly it wasn't enough of a warning if there was one, just like the latest invasions that made me search for the forums for a good half hour - thinking it's a new event and a chance to get Detron, only to find out it's another ninja patch thats introducing a new game mode without a proper official pinned thread about it.

[Brimir]

Retiring weapons was a dumb move in the first place.

 

I'd love to see them put back into the game. They never even gave a good reason as to why they removed them; they just gave us a heads-up that they were going to.

[SquirmyBurrito]

So do I, but only for the Gorgon and the Ammo Boxes as I said, I never knew they were going to remove Ether Dagger, Boar and Machete. I'm always lurking around the forums and I play the game daily. Clearly it wasn't enough of a warning if there was one, just like the latest invasions that made me search for the forums for a good half hour - thinking it's a new event and a chance to get Detron, only to find out it's another ninja patch thats introducing a new game mode without a proper official pinned thread about it.

 

Don't try and pass off your inability to look at what is in front of you as DE's fault. There was a warning on the forums as well as a warning in the market place. The thing about the infested was mentioned in another set of build notes (IIRC), Lrn2Read.

 

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/117806-update-1030-hump-day/ start reading the update threads:

A few Market weapons are being retired: Gorgon, Dual Ether Daggers, Boar, and Machete. You have 7 days to get them before they go into the retirement!

 

If you saw the warning for the Gorgon you should have also seen the warning for the other weapons.

 

You not reading something they made widely accessible (and even link in-game) is never DE's fault.

 

Retiring weapons was a dumb move in the first place.

 

I'd love to see them put back into the game. They never even gave a good reason as to why they removed them; they just gave us a heads-up that they were going to.

 

I wasn't aware DE had to give us a reason to remove weapons. Yes, it would be nice, but it isn't something one should expect.

Edited December 17, 2013 by SquirmyBurrito

[CapricaSix]

Don't try and pass off your inability to look at what is in front of you as DE's fault. There was a warning on the forums as well as a warning in the market place. The thing about the infested was mentioned in another set of build notes (IIRC), Lrn2Read.

 

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/117806-update-1030-hump-day/ start reading the update threads:

 

 

 

If you saw the warning for the Gorgon you should have also seen the warning for the other weapons.

 

You not reading something they made widely accessible (and even link in-game) is never DE's fault.

 

 

I wasn't aware DE had to give us a reason to remove weapons. Yes, it would be nice, but it isn't something one should expect.

Oh wow lol... seriously, the more you post in here, the more you sound like a little boy trying to keep his favourite toys super special or something, rather than a battered wife with stockholm syndrome. And unlike you, I don't actually mean that in an insulting way.

 

That aside, I've been following this thread for a while now and I don't even see the point of your bitter and resentful posts anymore dude, you seem to keep posting to troll people and argue for the sake of arguing. What do you hope to get out of this?

 

Really though, please stop trying to suck up to DE so hard, you've already expressed your opinion on the matter days ago, time to let it go, this isn't really about you. This isn't Players vs DE, and it definitely isn't Reddit either. Stop acting like it is.

 

Here's the conclusion. Quite evidently people liked these weapons and they want them back in the market/dojo, and as you've said this is Beta and we're Beta-testers, therefore this is essentially a feedback thread about the retirement on its own. Telling people "too bad :P I got it tho /thread" over and over isn't helping anyone, neither is "it's done, suck it /lockplsmods".

[SquirmyBurrito]

Oh wow lol... seriously, the more you post in here, the more you sound like a little boy trying to keep his favourite toys super special or something, rather than a battered wife with stockholm syndrome. And unlike you, I don't actually mean that in an insulting way.

 

That aside, I've been following this thread for a while now and I don't even see the point of your bitter and resentful posts anymore dude, you seem to keep posting to troll people and argue for the sake of arguing. What do you hope to get out of this?

 

Really though, please stop trying to suck up to DE so hard, you've already expressed your opinion on the matter days ago, time to let it go, this isn't really about you. This isn't Players vs DE, and it definitely isn't Reddit either. Stop acting like it is.

 

Here's the conclusion. Quite evidently people liked these weapons and they want them back in the market/dojo, and as you've said this is Beta and we're Beta-testers, therefore this is essentially a feedback thread about the retirement on its own. Telling people "too bad :P I got it tho /thread" over and over isn't helping anyone, neither is "it's done, suck it /lockplsmods".

 

I haven't been insulting anyone. I'm not trying to defend any toys (I don't like most of the weapons that were retired), and I don't have any of the symptoms usually associated with Stockholm Syndrome.

 

If you were actually reading my posts you wouldn't use those words to describe my posts. I haven't trolled anyone. 

 

I haven't been sucking up to anyone. I never made this about myself. Why are you bringing up something as irrelevant as Reddit?

 

I haven't been saying that.

You acted as if they gave us no warning about the other weapon's removal. I proved you wrong. Get over it. It isn't Stockholm syndrome to understand when a company is at fault and when it isn't. I am allowed to participate in this thread just like you. Stop the mudslinging, stop putting words in my mouth, stop trying to deflect attention from your mistake, just stop. Calm down, collect your thoughts, and post when you can form posts that contribute to the thread.