Penta Ammo Capacity

[__Kanade__]

rifle mutation in most cases that i have seen is a waste of mod space, a mod space that can easily be used to better the DPS of your weapon 

Before damage 2.0 ya, but now you don't need to be clogging up your slots with a typical rainbow build along with ap for most weapons, Rifle/Pistol mutation now has room on my Supra and Gremlins.

Edited December 14, 2013 by __Kanade__

[Brimir]

I'm sorry i didnt explained myself well enough

The problem i see with this thread is i havent seen any whine about ogris/torid ammo capacity for a pretty long time

 

It was in. the. opening. post. and. multiple. times. after. that.

[Seanjuju]

@ObviousLee Actually, I've run out of ammo on my torid before so it's possible. I wasn't trying to and it was very long ago. Anyway, these weapons should still remain ammo efficient. The efficiency can just be toned down a bit.   

 

Brimir, you're going to draw the attention of the mods.

Edited December 14, 2013 by Seanjuju

[Brimir]

@ObviousLee Actually, I've run out of ammo on my torid before so it's possible. I wasn't trying to and it was very long ago. Anyway, these weapons should still remain ammo efficient. The efficiency can just be toned down a bit.   

 

Erhm, no. No they shouldn't. It needs to be toned down a lot.

 

Weapons of massive AoE mayhem have always been characterized by poor ammo efficiency. For good reason, too. Y'know, to balance their capability for massive AoE mayhem.

 

Again I refer back to my argument of comparing one Gorgon/Soma bullet to one Ogris/Penta projectile.

[ObviousLee]

@ObviousLee Actually, I've run out of ammo on my torid before so it's possible. I wasn't trying to and it was very long ago. Anyway, these weapons should still remain ammo efficient. The efficiency can just be toned down a bit.   

ammo efficiency is one thing, and i agree that yes weapons need to have decent ammo economy, but not to the point where its impossible to run out of ammo.

 

and IF a weapon has terrible ammo economy, there needs to be a method to make up for that. embolist and a few other sideies eat ammo like its going out of style, yet even with the short range, embolist can still pack a ridiculous punch. some weapons just have terrible ammo economy ANd terrible stats.

[zzang]

Erhm, no. No they shouldn't. It needs to be toned down a lot.

 

Weapons of massive AoE mayhem have always been characterized by poor ammo efficiency. For good reason, too. Y'know, to balance their capability for massive AoE mayhem.

 

Again I refer back to my argument of comparing one Gorgon/Soma bullet to one Ogris/Penta projectile.

Well thats your Opinion while i dont agree on nerfing it i know your point

but again its silly to ask for a monster nerf like 60-80 capacity and a sniper ammo pool for penta

 

this is exactly what i mean your thread is not about a discussion its about lobbying arround your opinion of nerfing a new weapon into S#&$.

[Seanjuju]

@Brimir They've always been efficient weapons. They use less ammo so they need less. At the end of the day, they'll still be efficient. Its actually the high rate-of-fire weapons that are characterized by poor economy.

 

@ObviousLee Why does no one want to talk about how some of these weapons need buffs? Ogris, Penta and Snipers are very strictly long-mid weapons which should all have considerable ammo reserves. You can't go running into the fray to pick up ammo with weapons that operate at these ranges.

Edited December 14, 2013 by Seanjuju

[Brimir]

but again its silly to ask for a monster nerf like 60-80 capacity and a sniper ammo pool for

 

Do elaborate. Explain why that is.

 

If it works for Sniper Rifles and Bows right now, surely it would be more than adequate for weapons that can kill entire rooms in one shot.

 

 

 

@Brimir They've always been efficient weapons. They use less ammo so they need less. At the end of the day, they'll still be efficient. Its actually the high rate-of-fire weapons that are characterized by poor economy.

 

Even Doom and Quake had enough sense to only give you a few rocket launcher rounds. It is not rocket science. Stop defending the inexcusable. These weapons in Warfare are not "ammo efficient". They have "infinite ammo" for crying out loud!

Edited December 14, 2013 by Brimir

[zzang]

Do elaborate. Explain why that is.

 

If it works for Sniper Rifles and Bows right now, surely it would be more than adequate for weapons that can kill entire rooms in one shot.

entire room (singular) in low level regions because rooms would be exagerating

 

and i already did elaborate to you why your suggestions (70 ammo capacity and sniper pool) sux and would make this weapon a freaking joke that hardly anyone would use in semi higher waves also i think that your suggestion make it clear that you are not seeking for balance but you are looking to nerf a cool weapon useless.

 

also its not near as effective as a vectis in a organized group a vectis really can oneshot enemies even in high level. Im not playing with bows so i cant speak for bows but people told me bows are also highly effective single target killers.

Edited December 14, 2013 by zzang

[Seanjuju]

@Brimir I didn't ask for the reserves not to be nerfed. Just that the ammo remain efficient. I have no issue with non-infinite economy. To be honest, if ogris and penta weren't ammo efficient, they would effectively be highly situational secondaries. They do good damage but not to the point where usage has to be severely limited. 

Edited December 14, 2013 by Seanjuju

[ObviousLee]

@ObviousLee Why does no one want to talk about how some of these weapons need buffs? Ogris, Penta and Snipers are very strictly long-mid weapons which should all have considerable ammo reserves. You can't go running into the fray to pick up ammo with weapons that operate at these ranges.

buffs, mother of god please yes, i am SO in favor of giving weapons buffs. i dont mind nerfs so long as a weapon isnt murdered in the process, but DE has a habit of just crushing weapons in their "adjustments". on this, i completely agree. not every weapon should be equal, however every weapon shoulb be viable. if it has terrible damage it needs something to offset it, otherwise, who will want to really use it aside for mastery xp.

[weirdee]

Bows use sniper ammo box pickups, and as far as I know, primed chamber is -sniper- exclusive. Just because it gets ammo from that does not mean it can use sniper only mods.

they'd have to create the launcher type then, because otherwise it'd just be a sniper type by default since it's not a bow type, and it uses sniper ammo

 

in any case, let's be real here, the ammo economy is so high that it wouldn't run out of ammo either way, so 500 shots is not significantly different than 72 when one shot is gonna wreck the S#&$ out of at least five enemies, and one of them's gonna drop an ammo pack

 

barring the desire to create a launcher type (which should then have launcher specific mods instead of just prancing about like firestorm), there's really no point to the change other than being more realistic about the ammunition capacity of a weapon that has shots the size of potatoes

Edited December 14, 2013 by weirdee

[Brimir]

@Brimir I didn't ask for the reserves not to be nerfed. Just that the ammo remain efficient. I have no issue with non-infinite economy. To be honest, if these weapons weren't ammo efficient, they would effectively be highly situational secondaries. They do good damage but not to the point where usage has to be severely limited. 

 

They should be limited enough in ammo supplies for you to have to think twice before wasting one shot just kill one guy. Might be better to melee him or kill him with your sidearm and save the grenade/rocket for the army of evildoers waiting in the next room.

 

That is how you balance an AoE weapon in a shooter game.

 

Changing them to Sniper Ammo and lowering that ridiculously huge ammo storage to 60-70 might just do that.

 

Might.

 

also its not near as effective as a vectis in a organized group a vectis really can oneshot enemies even in high level. Im not playing with bows so i cant speak for bows but people told me bows are also highly effective single target killers.

 

Hahaha. Funny joke. Wait... what, you're serious? Single-target damage means almost nothing in Warframe. Only when it comes to killing bosses, and even so you would have to kill a small army of guys to get to the boss in the first place. It is all about killing a lot of enemies. This is why bows and snipers are looked at as more of a curiosity than a viable choice. Any experienced player can tell you that.

 

The fact that Penta/Ogris have infinite ammo and snipers/bows have almost no ammo is one of the biggest facepalms in Warframe.

 

Edited December 14, 2013 by Brimir

[zzang]

They should be limited enough in ammo supplies for you to have to think twice before wasting one shot just kill one guy. Might be better to melee him or kill him with your sidearm and save the grenade/rocket for the army of evildoers waiting in the next room.

 

That is how you balance an AoE weapon in a shooter game.

 

Changing them to Sniper Ammo and lowering that ridiculously huge ammo storage to 60-70 might just do that.

 

Might.

 

 

Hahaha. Funny joke. Wait... what, you're serious? Single-target damage means almost nothing in Warframe. Only when it comes to killing bosses, and even so you would have to kill a small army of guys to get to the boss in the first place. It is all about killing a lot of enemies. This is why bows and snipers are looked at as more of a curiosity than a viable choice. Any experienced player can tell you that.

 

The fact that Penta/Ogris have infinite ammo and snipers/bows have almost no ammo is one of the biggest facepalms in Warframe.

 

Yea i got told by a expirienced player vectis is one reason how players managed to get into extreme high waves 80+ in defense and dealing with lvl 400 enemies

 

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/141548-our-trial-wave-100-against-grineer/page-2

 

check out post 22 thats a 150k crit shot from a vectis

 

you will never ever achieve that with a penta

 

and again you have a reason to kindly ask for snipers/bows ammo capacity to be a little bit buffed but for me you have zero reasons other than your ego opinion to nerf penta capacity.

 

And your nerf suggestion is extremely hilarious you just want to see the new weapon nerfed into piece of crap for selfish reason.

Edited December 14, 2013 by zzang

[ArmyOfFun]

I have a multi forma penta and would not mind the ammo capacity change.  I main Nekros anyways \o/ ammo everywhere.

[Seanjuju]

@Brimir Keep in mind that these are primaries that already damage the user. They have long reloads and must work at strict ranges unless you want to die. Ogris has to charge each individual shot. It already makes sense to kill single, non-heavies with a secondary or melee weapon for users of ogris and penta. DE did well in making these weapons perform the best in their niche. Though penta is bugged..

 

 

(side note: I actually assumed that penta was a secondary until I saw someone use it the day it came out.)

 

Also, nova and vectis go very well together.

Edited December 14, 2013 by Seanjuju

[Cwierz]

imo, the current ammo is ridiculous.

Maybe it should have the shotgun ammo pools but pick up ammo from sniper drops.

[MechNexus]

Not even tribes gives you that much ammo for their explosives, and those weapons are the bread and butter for that game.

They should use sniper ammo or get their own ammo type, because, come on, 540 shots in reserve for a grenade launcher?

[Vladokapuh]

Do you really own it?

 

That thing called swarm doesn't exist or it does exist just rarely because in most cases the enemies scatter or you encounter them in hallways. Of course there are swarms on survivals or defenses, but I don't need Penta for dealing with them because an ultimate or just my regular primary weapons does the job too. I could even take them out with my secondary.

 

I made a regular event mission. Exterminate. I was in a team with three times Soma. What do you expect happened? Most of those enemies died before some of Pentas grenades arrived.

 

Maybe we two don't play the same game and maye the discussion should be whether Penta should be used like a normal primary even for single enemies. I'd say yes because I like bouncing grenades and how I can use them. It's not my problem, that you can't snipe with gorgon. It's obviously not a sniper rifle. You ammunition? I can't care less because it's you job to make up for a balanced or specialized build.

 

You know what? I normally use Synapse. Would you think Synapse is more ammo efficient than Gorgon? Do you think I have problems with my ammunition? I "waste" a mod slot for ammo mutation. Do you see me whine if I encounter someone with Ogris or Penta or Torid who I could even outdamage in most cases? I own most of the primary weapons in the whole game and mostly played them to rank 30. I will always have a weapon at hand and if one isn't fun anymore it will just get dusty.

 

Do you think I care if Penta had 500, 70, 40 or 20 ammo capacity? If it's unusable because I only have 5 shots until I find more, I just wouldn't use it and people will whine because it obviously sucks. If you think 20 will do, then I believe you wouldn't even recognize the changes ingame because people will switch weapons ingame to preserve ammo and they will be able to preserve their playstyle even so.

 

Sure you can nerf it to 10 but seriously, I don't think the impact of Penta is worth that huge nerf. So I ask again what exactly your problem is, and more important:

 

Saying NERF IT won't do. Tell me how you want it to be nerfed. Just a number for ammo capacity will do.

Stop comparing weapons that NEED mutation to keep shooting, to weapon that has free infinite ammo. Makes no sense at all.

So you want your ammo to remain 540, because you lost to soma in fast paced assault mission? And then you say its me being butthurt.. right.

I cannot snipe with gorgon, because its not ment to snipe. Grenade launchers arent made to be used evrywhere, these are situational weapons, and should be used like ones. Rifles and machine guns are made to assault, so they outperform you there.

You wanna use grenade launcher in exterm? Sure go for it. But its not an efficient way to use it. Too slow, and like you said, enemies are scattered around in there. 

I never asked for this weapon to be made useless, or not fun to use. I just want it to stop having POINTLESSLY HUGE AMMO CAPACITY. You should never be able to just go carelessly shooting around. Doing that should make you out of ammo. QUICKLY.

You want numbers? I dont know, it would need to be tested, so you HAVE to care for ammo, but you dont run out of ammo too quick.

 

[Juranai]

hmm ammo mutation would mean that I would not need to forma it a 5th time, as for a nerf are you freaking insane.

[Seanjuju]

There's a limit to how situational you can make a primary. Its damage is good, but not that good.

Edited December 14, 2013 by Seanjuju

[Vladokapuh]

There's a limit to how situational you can make a primary. Its damage is good, but not that good.

Bows kill single enemies, and have MUCH less ammo, they are still used good..

These weapons kill GROUPS, and have FEW TIMES MORE ammo?? Why, and what for????

Also stop acting like we want to completly destroy these weapons. We want them to be BALANCED, and i dont mean damage wise. Ammo consumption is important aspect of this game. Infinite ammo weapons should be GONE. All of them.

Limits? Yes, limits. Limit the ammo.

[Seanjuju]

@Vladokapuh Bows are not good. Also, when I actually used a bow, it had innate punch through so it was meant for groups as well. Besides, everyone knows bows need an ammo buff.

 

I'm just saying that these weapons must remain efficient. Not infinite. Efficient. As long as these weapons can function the same, there's no issue.

Edited December 14, 2013 by Seanjuju

[Vladokapuh]

@Vladokapuh Bows are not good. Also, when I actually used a bow, it had innate punch through so it was meant for groups as well. Besides, everyone knows bows need an ammo buff.

 

I'm just saying that these weapons must remain efficient. Not infinite. Efficient. As long as these weapons can function the same, there's no issue.

Bows can one shot alot stuff, they are just fine. And they DONT need ammo buff.

Launchers should be efficient, when used efficiently, not when randomly puking rockets evrywhere around. 

I will repeat it for 43534th time, i dont want them useless, i want them remain good. Infinite ammo has to go though.

[zzang]

I will repeat it for 43534th time, i dont want them useless, i want them remain good. Infinite ammo has to go though.

according to suggested Numbers people want the Penta to be made totally useless