Meanwhile At The De 11.3 Board Meeting....

[Renan.Ruivo]

To police the forums and uphold the rules, yes.

 

Nothing about being white knights for DE.

 

They're allowed to criticize them just like everyone else.

 

Exactly. However being "white knights for DE" and "policing the forums and upholding the rules" are more often than not two things that people mistake for one another. Make no mistake, i'm not a particular fan of much that has been changed, but there's a level of civility that must be used when offering feedback.

 

The difference is that i can see more clearly than the average member how much work (not what work though, Sorry, no privileged game info :P ) the developers and general staff are putting into the game day in and day out  since i interact with some of them directly (I'm not only a moderator, but a volunteer translator as well since january. Just as Ced23ric), so i can safely say that much of what is said about the people is flat out wrong. 

 

 

It's easy to be civil when you're content. True gentlemen and true ladies are the ones that are able to maintain the same level of decorum no matter how frustrated they are. (Besides, 7 years of being a member of EVE Online's community showed me how a company can make mistakes, redeem itself and go back to making mistakes. And exactly what works and what doesn't in regards to community feedback)

[KvotheTheArcane1]

Exactly. However being "white knights for DE" and "policing the forums and upholding the rules" are more often than not two things that people mistake for one another. Make no mistake, i'm not a particular fan of much that has been changed, but there's a level of civility that must be used when offering feedback.

Eh, I see a big difference, upholding the rules, is well, upholding the rules, i.e. what the ComMods do already, while white knighting would be actively removing posts that disagree or criticize DE because they do so.

[Renan.Ruivo]

Eh, I see a big difference, upholding the rules, is well, upholding the rules, i.e. what the ComMods do already, while white knighting would be actively removing posts that disagree or criticize DE because they do so.

There aren't any mods that do this. Remember that "Dev bashing" is on the community guidelines, so when criticism goes into directly offending the staff it ceases to be just criticism. Saying that someone is "disgusting" and "dissimulated" breaks that rule.

[KvotheTheArcane1]

There aren't any mods that do this. Remember that "Dev bashing" is on the community guidelines, so when criticism goes into directly offending the staff it ceases to be just criticism. Saying that someone is "disgusting" and "dissimulated" breaks that rule.

Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Upholding the rules (i.e. no dev bashing) =/= whiteknighting. It's simply the task/job of making sure the rules are followed.

[-CM-Aeon]

Some stuff go right some stuff go wrong. As human being with many flaws it is our duty to whine at few things that went wrong and ignore aything thats nice. I still enjoy Warframe. I like the concept. If you dont like it its fine. Lets put that discussion away. As for comics they are funny. Its ok to laugh at them. Im sure DE will come up with something. Even if not upcoming content should be good to make us forget these. Cheer up people. Your miserable lives could have been worse.

[Kamal965]

I'm okay with the changes because I'm Canadian.

 

Seriously, though, any veteran member should realize by now that pretty much every single core element has been changed at least once. And even more changes shall come, and all the new incoming mechanics shall also be subject to change, and they will change.

 

C'mon, guys. Calm down and take everything with a grain of salt.

[Luminati07]

C'mon, guys. Calm down and take everything with a grain of salt.

I take everything with a kilogram of salt these days.

[Althix]

salt is bad for your health. and sugar as well.

[Althix]

i just saw "community hot topics." oooooohhh... i don't know maybe i should type something, but my hands are simply omitted.

 

ok i will muster my inner reserves.

 

is it so hard to actually make some kind of inner council of players to discuss changes with them before deployment? i mean not design council because it is a joke but i don't know. some experienced players with perspective of gameplay?

 

you know as former alpha tester of eve online i know that when you talk with player base - mostly good things happen in result.

[KvotheTheArcane1]

is it so hard to actually make some kind of inner council of players to discuss changes with them before deployment? [...] some experienced players with perspective of gameplay?

DE really does need a QA team, they have a "small" group of fairly invested players (the DC), and a Public Test Server would be amazing in terms of upping the quality of the updates. Obviously it would be open to more than just the DC, but the DC would be a start towards a real QA team, at least until they figure out how to select people for a dedicated QA group (it'd sorta be like a ComMod position, no pay, but you get a fancy title and avatar or something).

 

Even then, just have a PTS up for anyone who wants to join in, the more eyes that are looking over something, the faster and more bugs will be spotted/cause of a bug isolated. Everybody wins!

 

Well, not quite everyone. The people who'll whine over not getting a big update each week will whine because it might mean DE would moving to bi-weekly updates at first. If it was implemented this week, closing time Friday the entire update is put aside, and the next week they work on the "next" update (or whatever they can) and the players test the update, submit bug reports, stuff gets fixed. At the end of that week, the update is pushed out, they continue to work on whatever they were, and so on.

 

However, that doesn't mean they can't release weapon skins, weapons, touch up old tiles/weapons/enemies looks/animations, fix bugs, and optimize where ever they can. They just wouldn't be doing these big sudden changes with zero feedback from the community, so all in all, there would be an update, but it might just be more cosmetic/bug focused instead of pumping out generic weapons (aka "content") every week.

 

Probably won't happen until some HUGE HUGE problem "forces" the community into an "uprising" of rage that DE rethinks their update model, but hey, I can dream right?

Edited December 18, 2013 by KvotheTheArcane1

[Althix]

Community who can "uprise" is slowly diminishing.

 

Every action has consequences. it is simple as that. Problem is that DE is very bad at calculating consequences. Or they are very good at that. That depends on how you think about them.

[KvotheTheArcane1]

Community who can "uprise" is slowly diminishing.

Mostly because quite a few people from the U10 rage left in one form or another. Or stopped caring.

Edited December 18, 2013 by KvotheTheArcane1

[PluralSlice]

While they may have been enjoyable, the worst part is, they have again gimped a means of players coping with their shoddy choices. Effectively making farming for certain items (the primary method of retention) x10s the chore it already was.

 

As for not logging in, well I've been trying my damnedest to find another game. This has basically become a second job. Whether it's posting on the forums to try and help, or playing the game. The ironic part is the latter is more of a chore than the former.

just dont go to firefall thats where i came from and they Work Realllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy Slow 0_0.

[Althix]

Mostly because quite a few people from the U10 rage left in one form or another. Or stopped caring.

This is f2p game. It hardly matters one or hundred.

[KvotheTheArcane1]

This is f2p game. It hardly matters one or hundred.

No, my point was that most of the people who posted often in U10 during the big rage thing have pretty much left.

 

Them leaving doesn't really affect DE in a way we might want it (i.e. DE rethinking the way they do things)

[Althix]

Yes I understood it. This is why i answered as answered.

[KvotheTheArcane1]

Yes I understood it. This is why i answered as answered.

Ah, I see what you mean now.

[Althix]

this all situation with "hot topics" actually reminded me Bank Robbey from Boondocks.

 

Unfortunatelly in case of DE we have two Eds and not a single Gin.

Edited December 18, 2013 by Althix

[WarOverlord]

this all situation with "hot topics" actually reminded me Bank Robbey from Boondocks.

 

Unfortunatelly in case of DE we have two Eds and not a single Gin.

Yep.

Reminds me of that too.

[Renan.Ruivo]

you know as former alpha tester of eve online i know that when you talk with player base - mostly good things happen in result.

 

Exactly. However CCP itself can be a good example of how a company can go from doing good things, to not so great things, to nothing, then back to awesome things, than back to meh things...

 

Players get bored and leave. Other players get bored with certain aspects that other players are still enjoying, but want the developers to change it so that they can enjoy the game again.

 

Then there are the changes who vary in the number of how many people they please. Damage 2.0 at the beginning was very rough, but it's getting its kinks fixed and a lot of people are starting to like it. "Infested 2.0" are right now very rough and, as DE itself has admitted in more than one occasion, suffered from a case of bad communication. It's getting tweaked and adjusted though.

 

I'm not sure however about a player council. I'd like for them to make a public test server which they can use as a sandbox to bounce ideas off of the community (just like CCP does with singularity [forgot the name of the new one]).

 

 

Also if you don't agree with what has been said on the hot topic threads, say so in there; send a PM to megan. Hell, send a pm to us ComMods if you want to as well. Unfortunately it seems like nobody hear us but they do. Not on the level we would like them to, but they do listen. We only have to keep repeating ourselves time and again and realize that we're not always in the right and that they might have future plans that the players don't know about yet.

 

 

 

But in the end it all goes back to "If you're feeling frustrated, then just take a breather". Acting out on frustration rarely yields good results. Frustration will disappear. However your opinions will not, and you will be able to present your feedback in a more appropriate manner once cooler heads have prevailed.

[Althix]

i am not talking about 2.0 because this new damage system will be changed over and over again during next updates, because it is far from "perfect" or even decent. even if i think that paper, rock and scissors idea for a shooter is just horrible choice, i am not talking about damage 2.0. and i am not making changes in my arsenal as well, because it is a waste of forma and time.

 

As for sending messages to ComMods or Rebecca or Megan. Here is the thing i am not sure that all of you have a perspective or experience in the game big enough to understand things i would want to tell you. Also in case of let say Infested i find it strange that i need to explain what consenqences removal of infested from a map will have. because it is just - obvious. Not to mention i don't really sure is developer playing their own game, because from the livestreams and overall outcome of some decisions i have this feeling that they don't. For example Scott and Mag's Pull - remember his reaction? - yeap, this is what i am talking about.

 

Also i have no guarantee that message will be delivered, heard and aknowledged and what result will it have. With the same outcome i can make a rant thread.

 

Ok this part can be harsh: Do you remember a topic about first Prime Time episode? Megan said that in these streams they will show some "fun" bugs in the game. But they never did that, because it is just stupid to broadcast flaws of the game. Both Megan and Rebecca are bound by contract and corporate ethics. I know what it is because i am working for a corporation.

 

"suffered from a case of bad communication" - oh come on. how many times already did that happened? they never learn? they step on one and same rake again and again and again? whatever the case may be, this situation with "bad communication" is not inspiring hope for better tomorrow no matter how you look on it.

 

And about future plans. Imagine this - i am coming to a client's building. Making a network, but not installing servers. Because servers are future plans and right now i don't care how client will work and what he is gonna do. Future plans.

You should not release half made content even if it's a base of something bigger. You must release new content in full so each part of it would work as intended with the rest of the game. it's called quality of the job. It's called care for client.

 

And about frustration. You know... I formad my Nova 6 times so she could fit all mods i wanted for her. And i leveled 6 Formad Nova to rank 30 and i was glad. Because this is how i saw her. And two hours later - new hotfix changed aura system to + mod points instead of - mod points.

Loadout system basically killed 500 hours of my time in this game. cores, credits everything. Because as it now there is no need in multiple serrations or flows.

 

And you know what? i was kinda ok with all that.

 

And now when they removed infested from Eris and Pluto... i am not frustrated. I am curious. I am curious on two aspects:

- what to do in the game now?

and

- how is it even possible to make such a mistake as removing most favorite nods from a game for majority of player base?

 

That's it.

 

anyway i gotta go home, cause my work is done. see you all later.

Edited December 18, 2013 by Althix

[Luminati07]

i just saw "community hot topics." oooooohhh... i don't know maybe i should type something, but my hands are simply omitted.

 

Oh man...Reading those topics made me extremely annoyed.

Here's what I posted in the thread.

 

 

 

 

1) We messed up by not communicating that we were thinking of doing this change. Prior acknowledgment would have allowed players to adjust accordingly and give us feedback.

 

 

2) Polarization

Now that the groundwork of the new Damage System is here, we see that Polarization now plays a more important role. Having spent many hours and countless Forma customizing your Polarization, the order you did it in could now be a problem. Options like being able to change the polarity of a slot (drag and drop) are great suggestions. The issue is known and we will be discussing a solution.

 

 

1)

Yeah?

And, how many times has this happened?

And how many times have you guys said that you've learned from your mistakes and will communicate more?

 

It's getting to be beyond a joke. Are you just intentionally leaving us in the dark so there's no backlash before you release the update?

 

Getting an opinion on the change prior to release would have done wonders.

Removing players' favourite missions was a @(*()$ stupid move and should never have happened.

 

The camel's back is breaking, DE.

 

2)

The team has already said several times that you're working on it. Now it's just "we're discussing a solution".

 

Again, this should never have happened.

How did nobody foresee this???

Christ. It just gets worse and worse.

 

*Edit*

 

What players like:

 “easy-mode” farming spot (Cyath) may be gone, but it gives a more dynamic feel and urgency to play the Infestations.

 

Are you kidding??!

 

You didn't even touch on how many players absolutely hate this change!

Classic. True to form, you guys ignore 50% of the feedback and think the update is just grand. (Reminds me of your reactions to the Gradivus Dilemma feedback)

 

"Easy-mode" farming spots may be gone.

Well, hey, why don't you remove Kappa and Kiste while you're at it?

No? Because they're Grineer?

 

Un@(*()$believable.

 

*Edit 2*

How did I miss this...

 

 

 

What players like:

·         More use of the Infested missions in the Derelicts.

 

For F***'s sake. How much do you need to incentivize these tilesets??

I've said it time and time again, I should go to a tileset because it's fun. Not because the devs are making some stupid, half-assed attempts at forcing me there.

 

Seriously. Do you guys have such little faith in the tileset that you need to try to force players there (Looking at you, Mutagen Samples)

 

I'm getting so damn sick of this.

[Magister_Zel]

As funny as this may be DE tackles these issues a little at a time because they have a lot on their plate, they need more staff to handle the workload,  i think i saw a post for employment for A.I. programing a while back those knowledgeable in C++ and the like.

Edited December 18, 2013 by 911nsidejob

[Althix]

 

Oh man...Reading those topics made me extremely annoyed.

Here's what I posted in the thread.

i saw that. my upvote was the first one.

 

(before you made editing with additional text)

Edited December 18, 2013 by Althix

[KvotheTheArcane1]

i saw that. my upvote was the first one.

 

(before you made editing with additional text)

Yup, I saw it to, decided that MAYBE, just MAYBE since there are so few posts in the hot topics that more posts will be heard, so I wrote my own post too. Hopefully, MAYBE It'll trickle down to the devs that we liked the permanent infested, and we don't like the OD (they just keep pushing it), and they need to really learn from their communication mistakes, not just say they are.