Generalized Ash Complaints- A Possible Fix.

[RejectionOfFate]

Alrighty then, let us get this idea off of my head, before it fades back into the hellish randomness that is my mind.

 

Ash- Steal Combat Frame. Slow Ultimate. Single Target Precision. Low duration smokescreen ( AKA Less Duration than Loki's Invis) Constantly gets stated that 'Ash sucks' 'He has no team skills' 'Bladestorm too slow, its not a press 4 to win everything'

 

Shuriken- 500 Slash Damage. Emphasis on Slash. Anything resistant to slash, makes Shuriken a bit redundant.

Possible Fix- Makes Shuriken's base damage 500 across the board. Impact, Puncture, and Slash. 

 

Smokescreen- Invisibility with short duration, capable of stunning enemies closeby upon use. As stated earlier, the Duration is shorter than Invisibility.

Possible Fix- Turn this into Ash's Team skill. Smokescreen has a shorter duration than Invis, so it would not be as if we were all Loki, running around invisible forever. This gives Ash a team skill, that would not only be useful, but valued by players. Sure, not to the extent of a SnowGlobe, Roar, or Sonar... but at least it would be something Ash could give back to the team.

 

Teleport- Ash Teleports behind an enemy. Or to a Teammate.

Possible Fix- Nothing really to say here. Perhaps adding a stun to the teleported target, if it is an enemy, so Ash doesn't pop up behind someone, then get stumbled when they smack him across the head.

 

Bladestorm- Ash rapidly teleports, cutting down all in his path. Upper limit of 13 targets, without additional mods.

Possible Fix- Eh... where to begin. Bladestorm has given DE quite a few issues in the past, and they have put a lot of work into it. Perhaps a bit too much work. Each slow motion animation, assassination, and brutal beatdown looks great. But does it really function all that well? Perhaps, speed up the animations, or skip some targets visibly, allowing Ash to get back into the action sooner.

 

 

Just some ideas I thought I would put out here, see how these are taken by the community, before I link the post, or make a topic under Warframe feedback.

 

I like Ash. He was the first frame that I honestly enjoyed playing. Hearing people talk down about an amazing frame is just a bit depressing, even if they do raise a point. Ash seems to be made for solo play in a Co-Op game.

 

TL;DR: Suck it up and just read the possible fixes above. Post if you would like the change, and why. No reason for a TL;DR here.

Edited January 5, 2014 by HiddenKharma

[Inberun]

Shuriken: Make into a barrage of Shuriken with AoE cone and can hit multiple enemies or a single enemy multiple times (depends on distance)

 

Smoke Bomb: Keep it

 

Teleport: Remove it and replace with a new power called Shadow Strike: Ash will teleport and strike the enemy with a powerful blow while remain undetected. Adds 1/2/3/4s into Smoke Bomb duration. Can only be used while under effect of Smoke Bomb or Shade

 

Bladestorm: If there are not enough enemy, Ash will strike a target multiple times.

[Shezo]

Another way to somewhat fix smokescreen is allow it apply debuff on affected enemies making them take more damage from attacks.

This way, smokescreen will work as way to create high-burst damage, higher that loki's one, but shorter in time.

Also, DE can "fix" bladestorm while maintaining its style by changing its mechanics -- Ash copies himself in numerous shadow clones that executes all marked targets at the same time (yeah, yeah, naruto and all that)

[Alpha52]

Ash aka Smoke aka Ninja was the original Warframe which still makes him my favorite :)

I've always kinda accepted him as one of those frames that's a loner and intended for solo use, although even in the solo department he's not the best by any means.

To be honest, the only thing I think needs fixing is his ult, and that's only because of how slow it is. I LOVE the animation and this that visually it's the best ult in the game, but in practicality it doesn't compare to many others.

I almost wish all the other frames ults were nerfed rather then finding some half asses way of making Bladestorm faster/more viable lol.

[(PSN)FraytaCentariHM]

Id rather Smokescreen be a "blind" skill then a shorter invisible copy. Having enemies still swinging around, hurting eachother- and being more vulnerable- making you effectively invisible, but if you went out of the impact site it would lose effect. He should have his own flavor other then being "loki but less invisible- and damage skills" for people to want both of them. Right now most people have the sentiment of Loki OR Ash (not counting those who get both for affinity.) Instead of Loki and Ash- these two should work well together, not suffering constant sibling rivalry. 

 

If they did that I would surrender my switch teleport to something else- or be fine with Teleport being just a reticle aim, instead of target based- evens things out.

[The1OfDarkness]

yeah, i love ash so much. BUT... his ult doesn't really bring much to the table. It's super cool, but in terms of usefulness it pales in comparison to most frames. It really needs some attention. I really love to play ash, he is my favorite, but the other frames just decimate with their ult and he just... doesn't hit enough fast enough.

[KingTaro]

A funy thing to do with Ash: Fleeting Expert + Streamline + Energy Siphon + Carrier = Infinite Ultimate.

 

Anyway, It would be great if his ultimate got adjusted a bit. Basically, make all the kills happen at the same time. So Ash goes in such a super speed that we actually see him attack all the enemies at once. This way, all the animations they've done for each kill won't go to waste. Because all the kills that happen at the same time, will have a different animation.

[Tulzscha]

Moved to the proper section.

[RejectionOfFate]

Moved to the proper section.

This was put into General Discussion for a reason.

I wished for these suggestions to be looked at by the community, before the post was refined and then remade/ linked into Warframe feedback, as said at the bottom of the Original Post.

 

Hardly anyone looks under Warframe Feedback, which makes the point of this thread being here now, irrelevant. No discussion to be made among the community.

 

Thanks.

[Darkseal]

Community will look when they want to discuss warframes and abilities....

 

 

I think Bladestorm could be fixed by having 13 Ash's teleport out of you and kill all the targets at the SAME TIME...... this would cut out the time it takes to perform and make it on par with other frames alts working on all targets at once. I LOVE watching the cinematic of his alt, but it does take time.

 

 

On a side note: I think ALL frames should have a Cinematic Alt....... but make it an option to turn on and off in the settings.

[ZT0100]

Ash is my favorite frame because of his style. I hope they're going to change his abilities even more than suggested here. The issue with Ash is that his abilities are pure damage. They need to have utility or support role. Blade Storm is just a bad ultimate because it takes way too long. 10+ seconds when hitting all 15 targets. Definitely needs to be looked at by DE.

 

Here are some suggestions.

 

1. Shuriken- First off, bring back the stagger! 500 base damage( or the old armor piercing) against anything plus bonus to flesh would be nice. It stinks against grineers, and unlike Volt's first ability that stink against some factions it can chain stun, Banshee can knock down, Mag can ragdoll, etc...

 

2. Smoke Screen- This can be changed into a utility skill. Maybe turn it into a smoke bomb ability like a few have suggested. Ash throws a smoke bomb at an aimed area and anyone that has been affected will become confused and attack anything that moves like Nyx's Chaos, or like Excalibur's Radial Blind... Or turn it into a team invisibility ability. Any teammate within range will go stealth along with Ash. Bad idea, but there needs to be support/ utility for Ash.

 

3. Teleport- Autoaiming like Shuriken would be nice... Or this can also become a miniature Blade Storm, dealing 2000 to a target and teleports. Give the Blade Storm stabbing animation to Teleport. 25 energy is 1/4 of the cost for Blade Storm, plus attacking only 1/15 enemy sounds like a fair deal while making this good. More on this later

 

4. Blade Storm- I love/hate this skill. It's cool, but too slow and weak. I think they should either remove it or make it faster.

 

1) Cut the number of targets in half like 15 to 8, but boost the damage to 3000-4000. This makes Blade Storm faster and less "boring." Personally, I don't enjoy watching him doing the same moves over and over to 10+ guys. 2) Make the animation faster by like 30-50%, 3) Make the targetted enemies become confused by Ash teleporting around and do nothing. Essentially a CC ability. or finally 4) Replace the ability, and implement the suggestion I have for Teleport above to have a single target Blade Storm so that Teleport won't so useless. A new abilty can be him using his hidden blades, similar to Valkyr. Since Ash seems to always be attacking vital areas with Blade Storm, I think this new ability should always deal critical damage and also increase Ash's mobility so that he won't get killed(similar to Volt but this applies to him only). 

Edited January 5, 2014 by ZT0100

[-CM-Syein]

Shuriken- suck just like most other first abilities there is

Smoke screen- Less energy cost, less duration, (compare to invisibility) pretty fair here. (plus, smoke screen can hide your sentinel) 

Teleport- waste of space in most situation. Since once you in smoke screen, you basically can personally charge at the enemy, no need to waste energy and teleport to them

Blade storm- single target killing within range, gaining invulnerability, slow, cool effects, with high precision but dps too low 

[Cwierz]

Shameless plug

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/155320-warframe-feedback-ash/

In my opinion these fixes offer the most to ash as a whole, opening up possibilities and niches that he currently doesn't have.

 

Really, just adding more damage and useability doesn't fix the situational nature of his abilities, or the lack of utility. He needs more potential, not more numbers and ease of use.

[Azamagon]

My take on Ash:

 

Shuriken - Make it a bigger, straightflying, punchthrough (several meters!) shuriken, which is also covered in sharp ashes, ashes which can lash out against a capped amount of enemies who come close to the blade (say, up to 5 or 6 targes?). Both the shuriken and the ash deal damage and they both stagger targets. Thus you have a skill that you have to aim for (shuriken itself), you still have the "homing" feel to it (the lashing ash) and you have constant utiilty in the form of stagger. A compromise of the old and new version of the Shuriken. Best of BOTH worlds!

(I'd maybe even rename it to "Ash Blade" or something. Or not :D)

Forgot to add: Splitting damage between Slash and Puncture seems fitting imo.

 

Smoke Screen - Good as is, really.

 

Teleport - Needs to be free aim and not interfere with movement (make it smooth in useage). And/or, at the place he teleports and at the place he teleports to, a little warping effect happens. This warping would give Ash a brief melee attackspeed buff, and all enemies caught in the medium aoe become slowed down briefly.

 

Bladestorm - Needs to be able to cancelled (press 4 again, with a slight timepass of the ability before you can cancel it, so you don't accidentally cancel it will spamming to activate it) and all targets that are attacked should get knocked down. Seriously, those attacks he performs, how are the enemies not more crippled? Oo

 

There ya go, damage is kept, and slight utlities added to all skills! Ash now would at least function at any level of the game :)

Edited January 6, 2014 by Azamagon

[Voidflow]

Shameless plug

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/155320-warframe-feedback-ash/

In my opinion these fixes offer the most to ash as a whole, opening up possibilities and niches that he currently doesn't have.

 

Really, just adding more damage and useability doesn't fix the situational nature of his abilities, or the lack of utility. He needs more potential, not more numbers and ease of use.

 

Yes a better utility would be nice. But then it is a damage frame ... I don't know. Something like ...

 

Shuriken could do radiation status like debuff, which causes confusion effect on target, even if Shuriken not kill it. 

Smoke Screen could also induce (right after 1 sec. stagger effect) a confusion debuff on all enemies for 5-10 sec. (both stagger and confusion could be affected by duration mods). Devs could also add kind of weakness debuff, while in confusion ... similar to Banshee but not that strong.

Teleport should get rid of that flip. It is very difficult to aim sometimes, and not to forget all these bugs "target invalid" ... a better aiming, or even teleport to location if no enemy near by to clicked target would be nice and probably very useful. 

Stagger effect is fine, but it could also bring some confusion debuff ... because enemy is like "Wtf was that ??? :O"  e.g. 3 sec.  

Blade Storm could do almost the same, confused debuff around his attacks and maybe additional weak spots revealing (stronger than Smoke Screen, and maybe even stackable with Smoke Screen).

 

That could be a good step in right direction with relative simple and "small changes" to current state.

 

That’s one small step for DE… one… giant leap for Ash!

 

But more utility? I don't know... more rework will be needed ... or we wait for alternative frame abilities. But this is not sure if these will be implemented at all.

 

The problem is also some frames have OP utilities ... e.g. Snow globe, Sonar etc.  making content "easy going" and game balance very difficult ... There should be a damage and effective health cap (real end game content) in order to balance damage frames ... otherwise it will work only with utility. That also means nerf to OP abilities with way too much utility. 

Edited January 6, 2014 by Voidflow

[ZT0100]

1. Shuriken

Pros:

Homing

Fast

 

Cons:

Weak

Slash type

Hits only 2 targets

No utility

 

Opinion: This ability is good and fun to use at lower levels. It quickly become useless when mobs have more armor, shield, health, resistance, and it no longer one hits. Not really worth the energy cost when Smoke Screen costs just an extra 10 energy for much more benefits. It needs something... like IDK, maybe its stagger back?! This ability is pure damage and has no use against things that it can't kill. It needs a buff, seriously.

 

2. Smoke Screen

Pros:

Stealth

AoE Stagger

Low energy cost

 

Cons:

Doesn't last long

Descrition doesn't make sense.

 

Opinion: This is a great ability. Beside from not lasting for a very long time,  the idea of turning invisible when throwing a smoke bomb isn't ...right. Before you say Ash turns invisible with his invisibility system, the description states that the smoke obscure the enemies' vision, which renders Ash invisible. How is Ash invisible to those that aren't affected by the smoke?

 

3. Teleport

Pros:

Stagger target

Mobility

 

Cons:

Difficult to target

Costly for a bad ability

Melee stinks and is dangerous to own health

 

Opinion: It's fun trying to make it work at a distance, like "yay, I successfully teleported to him!" Yeah, this ability is that tough to use at a distance. It's ironic that the ability is meant to make it easier to jump into combat, but it's very difficult to aim at a moving target. Autoaiming might be the solution there, but the difficulty of making it work at a distance isn't the only problem. The real question is, do we really want to get close and personal? Of course not! Who wants to jump straight into mobs?  Maybe Rhino does, and an Ash that has a death wish. Seriously, this ability stinks because no one wants to die and melee stinks.  It can be useful in some situations, but I would rather have this replaced with an ability that I can use more often.

 

4. Blade Storm

Pros:

Awesome animation!

Armor Ignoring

15 targets

Targettable AoE attack

Panic button

 

Cons:

VERY Slow animation

No utility/support

Weak

 

Opinion: This ability is mediocre/good. It has a lot of pros, but the cons are too great that it tips the balance a bit over to the bad side. Again, a pure damage ability that cannot kill its targets suck. It sucks even more because it's extra slow. Slow, weak, and utilityless. This is next to being useless at on higher levels.

[MysteryNotes]

Alrighty then, let us get this idea off of my head, before it fades back into the hellish randomness that is my mind.

 

Ash- Steal Combat Frame. Slow Ultimate. Single Target Precision. Low duration smokescreen ( AKA Less Duration than Loki's Invis) Constantly gets stated that 'Ash sucks' 'He has no team skills' 'Bladestorm too slow, its not a press 4 to win everything'

 

Shuriken- 500 Slash Damage. Emphasis on Slash. Anything resistant to slash, makes Shuriken a bit redundant.

Possible Fix- Makes Shuriken's base damage 500 across the board. Impact, Puncture, and Slash. 

 

Smokescreen- Invisibility with short duration, capable of stunning enemies closeby upon use. As stated earlier, the Duration is shorter than Invisibility.

Possible Fix- Turn this into Ash's Team skill. Smokescreen has a shorter duration than Invis, so it would not be as if we were all Loki, running around invisible forever. This gives Ash a team skill, that would not only be useful, but valued by players. Sure, not to the extent of a SnowGlobe, Roar, or Sonar... but at least it would be something Ash could give back to the team.

 

Teleport- Ash Teleports behind an enemy. Or to a Teammate.

Possible Fix- Nothing really to say here. Perhaps adding a stun to the teleported target, if it is an enemy, so Ash doesn't pop up behind someone, then get stumbled when they smack him across the head.

 

Bladestorm- Ash rapidly teleports, cutting down all in his path. Upper limit of 13 targets, without additional mods.

Possible Fix- Eh... where to begin. Bladestorm has given DE quite a few issues in the past, and they have put a lot of work into it. Perhaps a bit too much work. Each slow motion animation, assassination, and brutal beatdown looks great. But does it really function all that well? Perhaps, speed up the animations, or skip some targets visibly, allowing Ash to get back into the action sooner.

 

 

Just some ideas I thought I would put out here, see how these are taken by the community, before I link the post, or make a topic under Warframe feedback.

 

I like Ash. He was the first frame that I honestly enjoyed playing. Hearing people talk down about an amazing frame is just a bit depressing, even if they do raise a point. Ash seems to be made for solo play in a Co-Op game.

 

TL;DR: Suck it up and just read the possible fixes above. Post if you would like the change, and why. No reason for a TL;DR here.

 

I just got ash and i have to agree with your points.

I love playing on Ash, he's so fun on low level missions!

On higher level missions though, he gets kinda outclassed by other frames.

I like the idea for your teleport, teleporting behind the target. Perhaps DE could add some damage to it though, i think it would suit Ash's theme perfectly to have him teleport behind a target and perform a backstab.(Like Rikimaru's Blink Strike from Dota)

Obviously it would have to be lower damage than Bladestorm though.

[Shimonoki_Ryuji]

Hello, fellow Tenno!

 

I do love Ash too. He's probably my favorite frame in the game, but some of his abilities need work, and these are Teleport and Bladestorm.

Here's what i came up with:

 

1.Shuriken (25 energy or 50) - might try to give it a charge mechanic. So, regular attack throws up to 2 little shurikens (25 ene), but a charge attack throws a giant Fuuma shurken that deals aoe damage (50 ene). Shuriken damage is up to 500 unmodded, Fuuma's is 1000 with aoe.

 

2.Smoke Screen (50 ene) - stays the same

 

3.Backstab (75 ene) - teleport gets combined with bladestorm, so that if it aims at an enemy, Ash attacks up to 5 enemies around desired enemy (including the target). If its terrain or an ally, it just teleports to it and stuns enemies around that area, if there are any.

 

4. Kunai Rain (100 ene) - when casted, throws a little bag up in the air, then it explodes and kills enemies with raining kunai at a certain radius. This ult kills a lot of stuff, is very fast unlike bladestorm and allows you to help some teammate without watching a long cutscene and doing nothing or getting all your kills stolen by some rhino/volt/saryn or whatever. Those kunai have puncture and blast.