Blessing Is A Little Too Strong In Its Current State.

[Fomiru]

If these kind of boring mechanics are needed for "endgame" content then I think warframe's endgame desperately needs retooling. I've been playing a lot of Volt with Fleeting Expertise and Blind Rage recently and he feels so much more dynamic and exciting to play than the 1-button i-win frames (mainly Blessing and Radial Blind). Granted he's more vulnerable but that vulnerability is exactly what makes playing him more interesting.

 

For reference here's a link to a youtube of my Volt soloing a Grineer asteroid defense at Uranus to 15 waves. It's not endgame content, but it is a high-pressure situation.

Case in point at 15:55 an impulse Electric Shield blocked bombard rocket saves my whole run.

 

Impressive gameplay man!  It's really cool to see people have fun with other frames.

 

Anyway, I completely agree with you here.

[Inez]

If these kind of boring mechanics are needed for "endgame" content then I think warframe's endgame desperately needs retooling. I've been playing a lot of Volt with Fleeting Expertise and Blind Rage recently and he feels so much more dynamic and exciting to play than the 1-button i-win frames (mainly Blessing and Radial Blind). Granted he's more vulnerable but that vulnerability is exactly what makes playing him more interesting.

 

For reference here's a link to a youtube of my Volt soloing a Grineer asteroid defense at Uranus to 15 waves. It's not endgame content, but it is a high-pressure situation.

Case in point at 15:55 an impulse Electric Shield blocked bombard rocket saves my whole run.

It desperately needs retooling, but you're still having fun?

That defense you did was 'endgame content'. It was a tier 3 defense. You get the same rewards from it as you do from wave 100 Outer Terminus. And you did it without Trinity.

Here's the deal, as you have already discovered: You don't have to use Trinity, Frost, Nova etc. Not sure why you would post just the opposite.

[-CM-Syein]

If these kind of boring mechanics are needed for "endgame" content then I think warframe's endgame desperately needs retooling. I've been playing a lot of Volt with Fleeting Expertise and Blind Rage recently and he feels so much more dynamic and exciting to play than the 1-button i-win frames (mainly Blessing and Radial Blind). Granted he's more vulnerable but that vulnerability is exactly what makes playing him more interesting.

 

For reference here's a link to a youtube of my Volt soloing a Grineer asteroid defense at Uranus to 15 waves. It's not endgame content, but it is a high-pressure situation.

Case in point at 15:55 an impulse Electric Shield blocked bombard rocket saves my whole run.

here's a thing, so you enjoyed other frame such as volt. Great. You don't need to use Nova, Frost, Trinity in your run. So? You doesn't have to nerf them then. 

[nephalem87]

Yet another frame ruined by an overzealous player. 

[Ryjeon]

It desperately needs retooling, but you're still having fun?

That defense you did was 'endgame content'. It was a tier 3 defense. You get the same rewards from it as you do from wave 100 Outer Terminus. And you did it without Trinity.

Here's the deal, as you have already discovered: You don't have to use Trinity, Frost, Nova etc. Not sure why you would post just the opposite.

 

 

here's a thing, so you enjoyed other frame such as volt. Great. You don't need to use Nova, Frost, Trinity in your run. So? You doesn't have to nerf them then. 

 

It was fairly high-level content. But if I used a frame such as Excalibur while leaning heavy on Radial Blind it would have been trivial content because all vulnerability would have been removed. I submitted gameplay of playing Volt as an example of cohesive and fun warframe design. Part of fun in gaming is succeeding at the edge of defeat.  In order to succeed with Volt I needed to utilize all three of his regular abilities constantly as the gameplay demanded it. Shock, Speed, and Electric Shield are fantastic abilities because they have both an offensive and a defensive utility. Both they also have limitations so they need to be used with focus and forethought, a.k.a. meaningful gameplay decisions.

 

I used to play Excal and Trinity very heavily because they are masters at negating enemy damage. But after playing Volt I realized these 1-ability godmode frames just aren't well executed. Yes, they're powerful, but I find myself wanting more from them. More gameplay, more choices, more focus. Not just "Do I want to take damage? Y/N? press 4. repeat. "

 

As for "endgame" content. I put it in quotes because the community is clearly divided as to what constitutes endgame content and therefore frame viability. Elitist pigs generally consider excessively high level survivals and defenses to be "endgame." If that is enjoyable to people than great but you can achieve similar gameplay taking low-ranking frames and guns to Ceres if you want to get creative. Unfortunately my most powerful builds trivialize even Pluto missions. 

 

The "re-tooling" I would like to see is something like a difficulty slider for completed planets. I want to be able to experience the gas planet tileset, Phobos, and the grineer invaded corprus outposts at the Pluto level of difficulty or beyond.  I don't know how DE could implement this. I have a lot of confidence in DE's ability to deliver interesting gameplay experiences, hence why I've play nearly every day since march.  But this community is so divided in their expectations and gameplay objectives. We argue over what is "endgame" "ninja" "fun" "balanced" "nerf." It seems like DE can barely move without setting off a hoard of angry forum posters.

[gam3addict]

If Trinity's whole-team invulnerability is fine, I want Rhino's old Iron Skin back.

[Inez]

I used to play Excal and Trinity very heavily because they are masters at negating enemy damage. But after playing Volt I realized these 1-ability godmode frames just aren't well executed. Yes, they're powerful, but I find myself wanting more from them. More gameplay, more choices, more focus. Not just "Do I want to take damage? Y/N? press 4. repeat. "

Its amazing how that works. You don't like a frame, so you play a different frame with more challenge. And you even play solo.

A good number of the posters in this thread will never attempt what you have done. Because there brains can't comprehend the idea of making different choices in how you play.

No one is forcing anyone to play Trinity. Or to use a multi forma Soma/Synapse/Brakk.

There are a lot of people who work long hours though, get off work tired and wanna kick back, do some drinking and shoot some stuff. For them the fun is playing with friends online and watching Grineer limbs go flying. People like us have the -choice- of using Trinity or Excal.

Your difficulty slider idea is great. That's basically what a properly specced Trinity or Excal is, its like a menu option for easy/casual mode. But it's an option you don't have to select.

You can even play Trinity without speccing for infinite Blessing. Or Excalibur without infinite Blind.

More choices for the player are always good.

[arbitorblade]

Alright as a Trinity player thats forma'ed her three times I have to say if blessings nerfed, thats it for me with trinity.

 

I just got used to well of life, I think energy vampire should go back to drilling the enemy that its casted on and link and blessing allow me to be a swiss army knife while keeping my team up and at em and cranking out the DPS.

 

She doesn't need a nerf, try scrambling around a survival and finding no energy orbs and thank goodness for teamspeak to warn people otherwise there would be a lot more downed then I can handle. Getting energy drained now balances that out as I can't stand there and need to keep mobile.

 

However I do think if anything need to be nerfed its the link skill. After all I can blessing + link, run up to a crowd of enemies with a ogris or grenade launcher blow myself up and seems to be they take damage from link as well as damage from the explosion. 

 

We don't have duration timers either that show up for blessing or link so a player has to keep in mind the time needed to cast blessing as well as the time they have available for the power duration. Shes a blissfully beneficial warframe if you know how to think creatively to deal damage with her. But still retains many weaknesses to counter her.

[Guest Shibboleet]

Alright as a Trinity player thats forma'ed her three times I have to say if blessings nerfed, thats it for me with trinity.

 

I just got used to well of life, I think energy vampire should go back to drilling the enemy that its casted on and link and blessing allow me to be a swiss army knife while keeping my team up and at em and cranking out the DPS.

 

She doesn't need a nerf, try scrambling around a survival and finding no energy orbs and thank goodness for teamspeak to warn people otherwise there would be a lot more downed then I can handle. Getting energy drained now balances that out as I can't stand there and need to keep mobile.

 

However I do think if anything need to be nerfed its the link skill. After all I can blessing + link, run up to a crowd of enemies with a ogris or grenade launcher blow myself up and seems to be they take damage from link as well as damage from the explosion. 

 

We don't have duration timers either that show up for blessing or link so a player has to keep in mind the time needed to cast blessing as well as the time they have available for the power duration. Shes a blissfully beneficial warframe if you know how to think creatively to deal damage with her. But still retains many weaknesses to counter her.

You mention many weaknesses in your closing statement, but you only actually give the example of an ancient disruptor?

Edited January 11, 2014 by Shibboleet

[kubbi]

You know what grinds my gears? People asking for nerfs for good frames while underpowered frames should be buffed first.

No just no. Trinity is healer frame. Her powers are well balanced for her type. If you tweak blessing then she's close to worthless. Link was already nerfed and now she's perfect. As a healer role her ultimate makes sense. Dont forget that its an ultimate. Ultimates are supposed to be super powerfull. And unlike other frames she cannot clear out a whole room with mobs with her abilities like for example Ember, Rhino and Nova. Ash and Loki cant clear a room but they can go invisible so that saves them. Nyx has crowd control etc. Blessing is Trinitys ability to keep her alive. Plus she's extremely helpful when doing high level missions like defence of survival. Trinity is currently perfect. No touch!

[thejynxed]

Her main weaknesses:

 

Easily knocked down (I can tell you, I've been knocked down with her many times, even using something like Handspring or Surefooted).

 

Slow casting animations.

 

Casting delay and effect delay on Blessing. This casting animation is a self-root, with the only other frame abilities in this game with a similar self-root are: Absorb, Crush, Radial Javelin, Overload, possibly Avalanche.

 

Able to be energy drained at range from the reach of Disruptors and drain grenades.

 

Not much more shielding/health/armor than a Nova or Loki, both well-known squish frames.

 

Link only has a chance of reflecting up to 25% of incoming damage back to linked targets. This could mean it only reflects 1% and you die.

 

Modding for duration reduces the effectiveness of Energy Vampire greatly, and by greatly, up to approximately 80% reduced effectiveness.

 

Low stamina (and stamina is important for movement so you don't get knocked down so much).

 

1 CC effect that even though it is a heal, might as well never be used because people just kill the particular target in 2 seconds.

 

This frame seems to be particularly vulnerable to Corpus weapons. This may or may not be intentional. I've used other frames with lower shielding and her shields always seem to drop much faster from direct hits from the Corpus guns.

[Guest Shibboleet]

Her main weaknesses:

 

Easily knocked down (I can tell you, I've been knocked down with her many times, even using something like Handspring or Surefooted).

 

Slow casting animations.

 

Casting delay and effect delay on Blessing. This casting animation is a self-root, with the only other frame abilities in this game with a similar self-root are: Absorb, Crush, Radial Javelin, Overload, possibly Avalanche.

 

Able to be energy drained at range from the reach of Disruptors and drain grenades.

 

Not much more shielding/health/armor than a Nova or Loki, both well-known squish frames.

 

Link only has a chance of reflecting up to 25% of incoming damage back to linked targets. This could mean it only reflects 1% and you die.

 

Modding for duration reduces the effectiveness of Energy Vampire greatly, and by greatly, up to approximately 80% reduced effectiveness.

 

Low stamina (and stamina is important for movement so you don't get knocked down so much).

 

1 CC effect that even though it is a heal, might as well never be used because people just kill the particular target in 2 seconds.

 

This frame seems to be particularly vulnerable to Corpus weapons. This may or may not be intentional. I've used other frames with lower shielding and her shields always seem to drop much faster from direct hits from the Corpus guns.

Link gives immunity (or at least normally does) to knockdown effects

 

Slow right now, but when they release natural talent it will be really fast; not really a weakness anyway with the roughly 1.5-2 second cast

A lot of abilities self root. Listing them all would be a waste of time as it would fill this page.

 

Any frame can be energy drained..why is this always listed as a weakness to trinity?

 

Shield and health don't matter when balancing late game as you get one shot no matter what frame you bring.

 

Link always gives you a 75% damage reduction

 

Modding the other way reduces blessings effectiveness down to where it should be; an instant castt heal that full heals the party and gives a little bit of a breather.

 

Stamina does not matter in a world full of Zoren coptering

 

Well targets die if they are level 10. It is a great single target CC but that is all. If many want this buffed it will be her only heal.

 

The corpus damage is the same on any frame modified by armor

[IamSalva]

Her main weaknesses:

 

Easily knocked down (I can tell you, I've been knocked down with her many times, even using something like Handspring or Surefooted).

 

Slow casting animations.

 

Casting delay and effect delay on Blessing. This casting animation is a self-root, with the only other frame abilities in this game with a similar self-root are: Absorb, Crush, Radial Javelin, Overload, possibly Avalanche.

 

Able to be energy drained at range from the reach of Disruptors and drain grenades.

 

Not much more shielding/health/armor than a Nova or Loki, both well-known squish frames.

 

Link only has a chance of reflecting up to 25% of incoming damage back to linked targets. This could mean it only reflects 1% and you die.

 

Modding for duration reduces the effectiveness of Energy Vampire greatly, and by greatly, up to approximately 80% reduced effectiveness.

 

Low stamina (and stamina is important for movement so you don't get knocked down so much).

 

1 CC effect that even though it is a heal, might as well never be used because people just kill the particular target in 2 seconds.

 

This frame seems to be particularly vulnerable to Corpus weapons. This may or may not be intentional. I've used other frames with lower shielding and her shields always seem to drop much faster from direct hits from the Corpus guns.

 

Idk which frame you talk about. 

Nothing of this seems to be the case with my Trinity...

really, don´t talk about a frame you clearly know nothing about...

[seanyxchris]

I think part of the problem why people find Trinity's blessing overpowered might just be an issue of presentation.

 

Frames after Trinity that had some healing mechanic (such as Nekros, and Oberon) have indirect heals through health orb drops. Oberon even has a very powerful HP regen potential when you build for focus. However Oberon comes off as super mediocre (for a number of reasons but especially) because his sluggish regen projectile is easily left behind due to the fast nature of the game. Once this hopefully gets fixed, we're going to have another beautiful method of healing teammates.

 

We don't have to nerf Trinity. We just need to change the presentation of blessing:

 

Currently it's just a massive full heal that also grants a boon of invulnerability. Rather than just being a healing nuke, blessing could be changed to where you regen shields and health during the invulnerability period. The net Shield and HP gain would be exactly like the previous version of blessing, but because it isn't instant and appears to be gradual it will receive less scrutiny.

 

Effectively speaking Trinity wouldn't be fundamentally changed at all, and it functions as a compromise for people who think her ability is OP. She would be just as effective as before, but 'appear' weaker while actually maintaining it's power level.

 

Trinity is currently (and will probably remain) the most powerful healing frame in the game. There's absolutely nothing wrong with this. She can keep the squad alive, but just because the players can stay alive doesn't mean that they're going to be able to properly complete the objective (be it defense, capture, etc.). Healing is a super small part of the game, and Trinity is exactly where she needs to be at this point.

[Guest Shibboleet]

I think part of the problem why people find Trinity's blessing overpowered might just be an issue of presentation.

 

Frames after Trinity that had some healing mechanic (such as Nekros, and Oberon) have indirect heals through health orb drops. Oberon even has a very powerful HP regen potential when you build for focus. However Oberon comes off as super mediocre (for a number of reasons but especially) because his sluggish regen projectile is easily left behind due to the fast nature of the game. Once this hopefully gets fixed, we're going to have another beautiful method of healing teammates.

 

We don't have to nerf Trinity. We just need to change the presentation of blessing:

 

Currently it's just a massive full heal that also grants a boon of invulnerability. Rather than just being a healing nuke, blessing could be changed to where you regen shields and health during the invulnerability period. The net Shield and HP gain would be exactly like the previous version of blessing, but because it isn't instant and appears to be gradual it will receive less scrutiny.

 

Effectively speaking Trinity wouldn't be fundamentally changed at all, and it functions as a compromise for people who think her ability is OP. She would be just as effective as before, but 'appear' weaker while actually maintaining it's power level.

 

Trinity is currently (and will probably remain) the most powerful healing frame in the game. There's absolutely nothing wrong with this. She can keep the squad alive, but just because the players can stay alive doesn't mean that they're going to be able to properly complete the objective (be it defense, capture, etc.). Healing is a super small part of the game, and Trinity is exactly where she needs to be at this point.

Your proposal doesn't change anything about how it currently works. From a min/max point of view, regening hp and shields instantly vs regening over 10 seconds with a 20 second invulnerability doesn't change anything.

 

 

To your closing statement:

Blessing isn't used in defense, EV build is used. Having full immunity in any other mission helps out more than any other ability in the game currently. Immunity is not healing and is a big part of this game when npcs can start one shotting you and and your team mates.

Edited January 11, 2014 by Shibboleet

[-CM-Syein]

Trinity weakness in comparison to other frames- giving example [note: the main point of this post is complain about blessing]

She had no offensive ability, let compare her to loki (who also had no offensive ability)

 

Blessing (4th skill)-

costing 100 energy

duration 10.

Trinity can get knock out during this invulnerability or had her energy stolen

long casting time (1.2s)

infinite range

affect the whole team

can regain health/shield

 

Invisibility (2nd skill)

50 energy

duration 12

casting time (0.75s)

can not get knock down, enemies will ignore you, energy can't be stolen

infinite range

affect only the user

can't regain health/shield

 

so basically, loki's invisibility is better than blessing in term of individual survival, but if it's for the whole team, Trinity is better. 

However, if I were to had a power for myself, I would pick invisibility. 

People need to realize Trinity is a team player, sure her blessing is strong for the whole team, so what? if it wasn't for the team I would rather go with loki/ ash. 

Don't forget radial disarm also helped a lot in def/ survival. 

Ya, Trinity other skills are good as well, but can it protect a pod? Disarm can. 

Not many people use Trinity because she is the best frame for the team. Sure, it can make the whole run seem boring.

Now, if only Trinity's healing only apply for Trinity, I doubt many will had complain <--- This is a nerf I'm suggesting. Sarcasm/ 

[Guest Shibboleet]

Trinity weakness in comparison to other frames- giving example [note: the main point of this post is complain about blessing]

She had no offensive ability, let compare her to loki (who also had no offensive ability)

 

Blessing (4th skill)-

costing 100 energy

duration 10.

Trinity can get knock out during this invulnerability or had her energy stolen

long casting time (1.2s)

infinite range

affect the whole team

can regain health/shield

 

Invisibility (2nd skill)

50 energy

duration 12

casting time (0.75s)

can not get knock down, enemies will ignore you, energy can't be stolen

infinite range

affect only the user

can't regain health/shield

 

so basically, loki's invisibility is better than blessing in term of individual survival, but if it's for the whole team, Trinity is better. 

However, if I were to had a power for myself, I would pick invisibility. 

People need to realize Trinity is a team player, sure her blessing is strong for the whole team, so what? if it wasn't for the team I would rather go with loki/ ash. 

Don't forget radial disarm also helped a lot in def/ survival. 

Ya, Trinity other skills are good as well, but can it protect a pod? Disarm can. 

Not many people use Trinity because she is the best frame for the team. Sure, it can make the whole run seem boring.

Now, if only Trinity's healing only apply for Trinity, I doubt many will had complain <--- This is a nerf I'm suggesting. Sarcasm/ 

Comparing an invulnerability with invisibility is like apples to oranges. If you had a loki for radial disarm you'd be using an EV build on a trinity; Different comps use different builds. Stop  using the 'energy stolen' as a valid argument, please. It's beating a dead horse that isn't even relevant.

 

Where are your numbers for 'not many use trinity'?

 

 

*Edit*

Thought this over a bit more, but in terms of the team play example that you gave you end up using radial disarm as an example. If we actually compare RD with Bless, like you should have seeing as they are both ulti's and group utility, we can peek into how each is useful to the team.

 

Let's say we're running a survival. We have a Trinity in run A and Loki in run B, both against grineer. Radial disarm is useful to stop napalmer/bombards, but is limited to a defined range. Loki is also the suitable choice for grabbing a blue support. So the team is left with 2 choices. a) Loki goes solo to grab it with invisibility which leaves them vulnerable to said napalmers, or b) the team moves with the loki to grab a blue. Choice A is a bad move based on personal experience, and Choice B messes with spawns a fair bit.

 

Now scenario trinity. Trinity casts blessing for 30 seconds of immunity to the entire team with no range limit. Player dps goes and grabs a blue and comes back. Team resumes farm.

Edited January 11, 2014 by Shibboleet

[-CM-Syein]

Comparing an invulnerability with invisibility is like apples to oranges. If you had a loki for radial disarm you'd be using an EV build on a trinity; Different comps use different builds. Stop  using the 'energy stolen' as a valid argument, please. It's beating a dead horse that isn't even relevant.

 

Where are your numbers for 'not many use trinity'?

 

 

*Edit*

Thought this over a bit more, but in terms of the team play example that you gave you end up using radial disarm as an example. If we actually compare RD with Bless, like you should have seeing as they are both ulti's and group utility, we can peek into how each is useful to the team.

 

Let's say we're running a survival. We have a Trinity in run A and Loki in run B, both against grineer. Radial disarm is useful to stop napalmer/bombards, but is limited to a defined range. Loki is also the suitable choice for grabbing a blue support. So the team is left with 2 choices. a) Loki goes solo to grab it with invisibility which leaves them vulnerable to said napalmers, or b) the team moves with the loki to grab a blue. Choice A is a bad move based on personal experience, and Choice B messes with spawns a fair bit.

 

Now scenario trinity. Trinity casts blessing for 30 seconds of immunity to the entire team with no range limit. Player dps goes and grabs a blue and comes back. Team resumes farm.

it's a number I'm base on my experiences run. I had no exact number ofc. 

So basically, Trinity's other 3 abilities compared with radial disarm, and blessing compared with invisibility is what I'm talking about. 

 

This is why my suggestion said, if you wanna nerf, then make it so that blessing wont affect other players but only affect Trinity. Fair deal. I doubt many Trinity will against this either. Since the point of this thread is complaining how blessing make their gameplay boring. (though it will kill the purpose of a support frame)

Loki is better as an individual, execute game more quickly, and he won't get surround with mobs like Trinity when he don't have dps against them. 

I never say how loki is better than trinity at team play (except his radial disarm) 

Energy stolen is an argument, because it affect the activation of a skill. 

 

DE had the choice to nerf blessing for other player, but keep the current blessing for Trinity, Trinity need it. Others might not. 

Edited January 11, 2014 by SElZE

[Guest Shibboleet]

it's a number I'm base on my experiences run. I had no exact number ofc. 

So basically, Trinity's other 3 abilities compared with radial disarm, and blessing compared with invisibility is what I'm talking about. 

 

This is why my suggestion said, if you wanna nerf, then make it so that blessing wont affect other players but only affect Trinity. Fair deal. I doubt many Trinity will against this either. Since the point of this thread is complaining how blessing make their gameplay boring. (though it will kill the purpose of a support frame)

Loki is better as an individual, execute game more quickly, and he won't get surround with mobs like Trinity when he don't have dps against them. 

I never say how loki is better than trinity at team play (except his radial disarm) 

Energy stolen is an argument, because it affect the activation of a skill. 

 

DE had the choice to nerf blessing for other player, but keep the current blessing for Trinity, Trinity need it. Others might not. 

Energy steal is not a real argument because it affects every single frame. Sure, loki won't be hit by disruption while invisible, but he is not immune from other hazards.

 

Blessing build is the use of 2 abilities - link + blessing.

EV build is Well, EV, and blessing for quick team play heals. If anything the 3 second immunity is what blessing should be baseline and unaffected by duration mods. I'm unsure as to how they could change this frame without breaking it completely, it most likely will need an entire rework.

Edited January 11, 2014 by Shibboleet

[-CM-Syein]

Energy steal is not a real argument because it affects every single frame .

 

Blessing build is the use of 2 abilities - link + blessing.

EV build is Well, EV, and blessing for quick team play heals. If anything the 3 second immunity is what blessing should be baseline and unaffected by duration mods. I'm unsure as to how they could change this frame without breaking it completely, it most likely will need an entire rework. Your experiences at first glance are not large enough to make judgment calls yet as far as I can tell.

like I said, I'm comparing blessing and invisibility. During invisibility, your energy can't get stolen, but during blessing, you can. That's what I mean. 

 

Judgement call is different to individual. 

I'm not even talking about the build here, I'm talking about the current Trinity and the problem of the op who make this thread. 

Understand my post first then you can maybe "judge" someone. 

[Guest Shibboleet]

like I said, I'm comparing blessing and invisibility. During invisibility, your energy can't get stolen, but during blessing, you can. That's what I mean. 

 

Judgement call is different to individual. 

I'm not even talking about the build here, I'm talking about the current Trinity and the problem of the op who make this thread. 

Understand my post first then you can maybe "judge" someone. 

Edited my first post to clarify - you quoted that really fast before edits went in =x. I explain that invisibility makes it so you cant be disrupted, but any other frame can. (I don't count ash in end game as he is useless). I don't think that you have any late tier experience from where you are coming from.

Edited January 11, 2014 by Shibboleet

[-CM-Syein]

Edited my first post to clarify - you quoted that really fast before edits went in =x. I explain that invisibility makes it so you cant be disrupted, but any other frame can. (I don't count ash in end game as he is useless). I don't think that you have any late tier experience from where you are coming from.

"I don't think" is an opinion. Late tier experience? I finished all maps and doing def/survival as high as possible where my team would last. Sometimes it doesn't last long due to those who wanted to leave early. So I don't exactly get what you mean by late tier. 

Yes, any other frames can get their energy disturb, I'm comparing two frames that had no offensive ability which is Trinity and Loki.

Ash is not useless in end game, smoke screen alone can carry him for pretty far, but yes, his ult is weak and his 1 and 3 are near useless. I won't deny that. 

[Guest Shibboleet]

"I don't think" is an opinion. Late tier experience? I finished all maps and doing def/survival as high as possible where my team would last. Sometimes it doesn't last long due to those who wanted to leave early. So I don't exactly get what you mean by late tier. 

Yes, any other frames can get their energy disturb, I'm comparing two frames that had no offensive ability which is Trinity and Loki.

Ash is not useless in end game, smoke screen alone can carry him for pretty far, but yes, his ult is weak and his 1 and 3 are near useless. I won't deny that. 

Trinity has the highest single target dps in the game when EV spec. Late game - 3+ hours survival or 200 waves in a defense.

[Darkmatt3r]

Shes worth playing for her 4th ability, if nerfed i won't bother playing her.

[Guest Shibboleet]

Shes worth playing for her 4th ability, if nerfed i won't bother playing her.

Yes, let's ignore her potential 200+ energy per 5 seconds ability to the entire group ability. Also happens to be the hardest hitting single target ability in the game.

Edited January 11, 2014 by Shibboleet