SIDESTRE4M Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 I don't want them to shoot less, just it feel odd that they have that high of a cap. Even with them changing to sniper, I doubt when I use the Ogris/Penta I would drop to half capacity even during T3 defense. Someone just feeling odd is not enough for me to support the idea, I'm sorry. IT IS A FLAK CANNON! And what is a Flak cannon? This thing shoots pellets and it uses shotgun mods in the first place. The pellets could be made out of bubblegum and it still would be a shotgun.^^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NikolaiLev Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 God these nerf the penta/ogris threads are infuriating. You guys want to ruin everyone else's fun. just get over it. Assumptions get you nowhere. I own the Penta, but I don't really enjoy using it because it's overpowered. It sucks the fun out of the game to be able to oneshot multiple enemies with no concern for ammo management. Yeah, some people want to be able to play a game with no talent or thought required. And some people want some skill demanded of them in their game. Thing is, in order for my group to have fun, we need to strip our weapon of mods, leaving it pitifully weak, relying on spamming grenades to kill enemies. If these weapons are nerfed, all your group has to do is play at lower levels to one-shot everything. And even then, you can use ammo mutator and/or ammo scavenger mods to compensate for the sudden need for ammo management. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faustias Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 You know... Changing the ammo type won't do much or at all. I'd just run around looking for "sniper" ammo or "detonite" ammo on the floor and get back to the bomber's positioning area like those poles and ledges on ODD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dalu__Ka Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 (edited) All other weapons have ammo restriction, these should as well. Want to keep infinite ammo? Enter some cheat codes or something. End of thread. Edited January 11, 2014 by Tenn00b Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SIDESTRE4M Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 All other weapons have ammo restriction, these should as well. Want to keep infinite ammo? Enter some cheat codes or something. End of thread. No, not all. Lex, Aklex, Seer, Brakk... As long as people don't understand, that infinite ammo is not the point, it's pointless nerfing it, because it won't have any impact... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueIstari Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 As long as people don't understand, that infinite ammo is not the point, it's pointless nerfing it, because it won't have any impact... Then support the "nerf" if it won't do anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonicSonedit Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 I hope DE will fix Ogris and Penta soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SIDESTRE4M Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 Then support the "nerf" if it won't do anything. Pleasing the masses... Nope. You really expect some impact, do you? Nevermind... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueIstari Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 Pleasing the masses... Nope. You really expect some impact, do you? Nevermind... I've already heard the "nuh-uh!" argument throughout this entire thread from your side. Do you have any actual argument aside from obstinate denial? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SIDESTRE4M Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 (edited) You have any argument, it will have an impact at all? Truth to be told, it makes more "sense" for the nature of it having sniper ammo, but the people in this thread for the most part are hoping for another thing to happen and that won't just happen with switching the ammo pools. You can switch the ammo pools, but people won't shoot less with Penta, they won't care more for ammo as before, the game experience won't be more "immersive", any right direction is just a paper tiger, so what is the goal of this change aside from wasting efforts until something on a broader scale will be done? I would be pro sniper ammo, but at this rate I'm against it, because I don't agree with the reasoning most people have here not granting others something they don't have with their favorite weapon. It's just ridiculous to think that having 460 rockets less will change something if you never needed even as much as the sniper ammo pool would provide. Even if the ammo drops are less because you will need sniper ammo... it will still do quite as well as before. It's just that people demand something with no real substance behind it, that I can't agree with it. That's all. I dislike aimless actionism. Edited January 12, 2014 by SIDESTRE4M Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LazyKnight Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 It's just that people demand something with no real substance behind it, that I can't agree with it. That's all. I dislike aimless actionism. My grip with the 540 ammo, is it feel like it is a developer's play test version or a weapon with cheat codes for ammo on. When I use my Penta It just feel like the ammo is worthless(because I can't run out) and the gun doesn't have a sense that the ammo has value. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SIDESTRE4M Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 (edited) My grip with the 540 ammo, is it feel like it is a developer's play test version or a weapon with cheat codes for ammo on. When I use my Penta It just feel like the ammo is worthless(because I can't run out) and the gun doesn't have a sense that the ammo has value. That is what an ammo efficient weapon is like... Edited January 12, 2014 by SIDESTRE4M Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LazyKnight Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 (edited) That is what an ammo efficient weapon is like... A lex doesn't run out of ammo either, but its overall a mediocre weapon that kills exceedingly slowly. When a Soma or latron prime are used as a semi-auto weapon making every shot count it still doesn't come close to the efficiency of the explosive weapons. Sniper weapons are efficient, but they are not able to take out groups quickly. A Penta has a higher ammo efficiency than any shotgun when considering the aoe component. The only down side to the penta/ogris is the more mods on it the greater the chance of self-suicide. Edited January 12, 2014 by LazyKnight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SIDESTRE4M Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 And sniper ammo changes that? Sorry, that I'm repeating myself, but I always wonder what people expect from that change, aside from some "feelings"... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LazyKnight Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 (edited) And sniper ammo changes that? Sorry, that I'm repeating myself, but I always wonder what people expect from that change, aside from some "feelings"... When there is no ammo scarcity it precludes the incentive for conservation of ammo. Heavy weapons should give massive damage and power in exchange for dealing with the ammo scarcity. Edited January 12, 2014 by LazyKnight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SIDESTRE4M Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 (edited) Yeah, but sniper ammo won't make that dream come true. The Penta/Ogris are per design so ammo efficient that the the real ammo capacity is just a trivial aspect of the gun. Edited January 12, 2014 by SIDESTRE4M Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NikolaiLev Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 Yeah, but sniper ammo won't make that dream come true. The Penta/Ogris are per design so ammo efficient that the the real ammo capacity is just a trivial aspect of the gun. Sniper ammo with a reduction to ammo capacity and rounds-per-sniper-pickup would, though. And these are possible already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7grims Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 This is really a nonissue. this guy said it all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SIDESTRE4M Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 Sniper ammo with a reduction to ammo capacity and rounds-per-sniper-pickup would, though. And these are possible already. Probably. But then I would have to congratulate the commumity for really hating a weapon to oblivion.^^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NikolaiLev Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 Probably. But then I would have to congratulate the commumity for really hating a weapon to oblivion.^^ It's just silly to think that people want it nerfed because they hate it. Just because it gets nerfed doesn't mean it'll become useless. It just means it'll stop being overpowered. If the Penta gets nerfed, I'll be using it a lot more. If you're so unskilled at the game that you need a weapon that has effectively infinite ammo, then just use ammo scavenger and ammo mutator. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
direcyphre Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 When there is no ammo scarcity it precludes the incentive for conservation of ammo. Heavy weapons should give massive damage and power in exchange for dealing with the ammo scarcity. It's just silly to think that people want it nerfed because they hate it. Just because it gets nerfed doesn't mean it'll become useless. It just means it'll stop being overpowered. If the Penta gets nerfed, I'll be using it a lot more. If you're so unskilled at the game that you need a weapon that has effectively infinite ammo, then just use ammo scavenger and ammo mutator. You seem to have missed the point once again. It doesn't matter what ammo you change it to, it will still never run out of ammo and drops will never be that scarce. It's been said a multitude of times in various ways. The best way to explain it is, when using Ogris or Penta, have you ever dropped to 440 ammo? Has your ammo pool dropped anywhere near that? I think the lowest I've ever seen my ammo is somewhere around 520, and since no ammo is that scarce (because I see the boxes all lying around of every type), it wouldn't add any scarcity or any dynamic that would push a person to conserve ammo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pro3Display Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 You seem to have missed the point once again. It doesn't matter what ammo you change it to, it will still never run out of ammo and drops will never be that scarce. It's been said a multitude of times in various ways. The best way to explain it is, when using Ogris or Penta, have you ever dropped to 440 ammo? Has your ammo pool dropped anywhere near that? I think the lowest I've ever seen my ammo is somewhere around 520, and since no ammo is that scarce (because I see the boxes all lying around of every type), it wouldn't add any scarcity or any dynamic that would push a person to conserve ammo. this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brimir Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 You seem to have missed the point once again. It doesn't matter what ammo you change it to, it will still never run out of ammo and drops will never be that scarce. It's been said a multitude of times in various ways. The best way to explain it is, when using Ogris or Penta, have you ever dropped to 440 ammo? Has your ammo pool dropped anywhere near that? I think the lowest I've ever seen my ammo is somewhere around 520, and since no ammo is that scarce (because I see the boxes all lying around of every type), it wouldn't add any scarcity or any dynamic that would push a person to conserve ammo. How are you not seeing that this is because Rifle Ammo restores 20 Grenades/Rockets? Change it to Sniper Ammo (which restores less, and is far rarer) and you will see a difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LazyKnight Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 (edited) You seem to have missed the point once again. It shouldn't use even sniper ammo, or receive 10-20 ammo per pick-up. The entire max ammo along with pick-up size for penta/ogris is broken. I have never seen a single other developer handle rocket launcher, howitzers with such a broken ammo replenishment mechanics. Edited January 13, 2014 by LazyKnight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NikolaiLev Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 It shouldn't use even sniper ammo, or receive 10-20 ammo per pick-up. The entire ammo max ammo along with pick-up size for penta/ogris is broken. I have never seen a single other developer handle rocket launcher, howitzers with such a broken ammo replenishment mechanics. Sniper ammo is fine. Imagine if the Penta had a maximum ammo of 40 and received 2 ammo per sniper pickup. You'd have ammo problems then if you spammed willy nilly, I guarantee it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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