Nova

[Makya]

using maxed blind rage+fleeting expertise (to add 100% power strength and 60% power efficiency) on a Nova has no negative effect on Null star, Wormhole, AM drop or MP. So none of Novas 4 powers are affected. Unlike other frames.

Nullstar 's effeciveness is cut in half as it is tied to duration, though I say MPrime should actually not last as long as it does (Why is it 60 seconds and not I don't know 6-16? That would set the ability closet to Sonar) and at that point it would be a very good balance point, wouldn't you agree?

 

I rarely play Nova, I play Ash more than I play her, though I would rather work on mostly bringing more things to Nova's level than lowering Nova's level, so I don't complain much about her but just ask for buffs everywhere else.

[taiiat]

I would rather work on mostly bringing more things to Nova's level than lowering Nova's level, so I don't complain much about her but just ask for buffs everywhere else.

but... that would make the game more trivially easy to play?

 

the Mod system overhaul, and the Damage and Resistance system overhaul - clearly points to that Digital Extremes doesn't want this to be a Facebook game, there's an actual game intended to be here. 

 

making the game trivially easy is the direct opposite of that.

 

 

this certainly does not mean we need to stat inflate either, because that doesn't work either, as dozens, and dozens of games in the past have shown does not work. 

all moving everything up constantly whenever something is out of place does is repeat the same stat inflation players have been whining for for 14 months. and Digital Extremes has implemented some of these things, the better ones, but Steve says he's not happy about it. he's not happy that Warframes got a huge Durability increase, let alone the other stat inflation we've had.

 

why is stat inflation so good? it's only been disproven to make successful gameplay for more than a decade. 

Borderlands2 (and i'm pretty sure the original as well, but i didn't play that very extensively) has massive stat inflation problems. early in the game is actually really well balanced! but when you start approaching level 50, and especially once past it, the scaling of the game just falls apart. you one shot enemies, they one shot you. unless you don't have the statistically best equipment that you could possibly find, which then they still one shot you, but you struggle against them - even if the equipment is still good, but not the absolute best.

 

why? because the stats got inflated too far for them to work anymore. and small discrepancies in balance increase exponentially as you increase the stats.

 

 

i even did a lot of experimenting with this scaling in Borderlands 2. i cheesed my stats and had more than double the Durability anyone could possibly have. the balance of the game was still completely destroyed. because there's too many zeroes on everything.

 

 

so tell me, why does stat inflation work, when every game in history has shown it doesn't.

i suppose in a game where everyone used identical everything, so if a Damage based game, that everyone had the same DPS, Burst DPS, Damage per Hit, moved at the same speed, had the same 'Health', and the same everything else, that stat inflation would be fine then. because there's no mathematical discrepancies to worry about when everyone scales identically.

but games don't do that, now do they?

[Makya]

You are over looking one main issue, with DE's current end game, almost every damage ability outside of Nova and Nyx's Ulti, and mag's 2 are in fact trivial thanks to DE's own Stat inflation. So that is a loss and most frames built around doing direct damage as seen as useless because they don't even come close to competing with the new stats. If Nova was lowered to that of.. Lowered to that of Volt. She will be seen not as a damage frame but a CC frame with a useless 1, the now nerfed 2 will be seen as something shiny that doesn't have punch later on, her 3 is mobility and her 4.. thats CC with a nice particle effect that stings near by enemies.

[DaveC]

Nullstar 's effeciveness is cut in half as it is tied to duration, though I say MPrime should actually not last as long as it does (Why is it 60 seconds and not I don't know 6-16? That would set the ability closet to Sonar) and at that point it would be a very good balance point, wouldn't you agree?

 

I rarely play Nova, I play Ash more than I play her, though I would rather work on mostly bringing more things to Nova's level than lowering Nova's level, so I don't complain much about her but just ask for buffs everywhere else.

I've already said what should be done to Nova, but no Nova players seem to want to agree to something which doesn't make it a non DPS frame, but at least bring is some reasonableness to the thing. I'll state it again below:

1. MP shouldn't be able to be recast until the previous one has worn off or all the enemies affected are killed. The duration of MP should be similar to rhino stomp or anything between 15-30s

2. All kills from MP should be distributed evenly across the team, so if a Nova primes 20 enemies that explode, everyone in a team of 4 gets 5 kills. This should apply to all kills made with Warframe offensive powers for any warframe e.g. frost rhino, Saryn etc..

Now I cannot see any problem with above and it will definitely change the behaviours.

[Makya]

1) Stomp is a 8second duration, not being able to re-ulti for 30s is painful, very few Ulti stop a recasting before it is finished.

 

2) Sure, this is something that doesn't matter to me, why should it even be a thing? Make it easier, if it is an ability kill noone gets kill credit on the score board. Scores don't matter.

[ThePresident777]

Nova is a one trick pony with a very powerful trick. I'd call on my fellow Tenno to examine this situation as if they had no stake in the matter. From an objective point of view it's not really balanced and it lends itself to unfun gameplay.

 

If I have no stake in the matter then I go do something else.  Why would I spend time on something I have no interest in?

 

From an objective point of view, Nova is the most fun Warframe for me.  Mprime is hilarious fun for me.  I don't want it nerfed.  I want other Warframes made fun too.

Edited January 19, 2014 by ThePresident777

[ThePresident777]

I've already said what should be done to Nova, but no Nova players seem to want to agree to something which doesn't make it a non DPS frame, but at least bring is some reasonableness to the thing. I'll state it again below:

1. MP shouldn't be able to be recast until the previous one has worn off or all the enemies affected are killed. The duration of MP should be similar to rhino stomp or anything between 15-30s

2. All kills from MP should be distributed evenly across the team, so if a Nova primes 20 enemies that explode, everyone in a team of 4 gets 5 kills. This should apply to all kills made with Warframe offensive powers for any warframe e.g. frost rhino, Saryn etc..

Now I cannot see any problem with above and it will definitely change the behaviours.

 

I agree with suggestion 2.  I don't agree with suggestion 1.  You've stated in other posts that Mprime was interfering with your weapon leveling.  I don't think that is the case.  But, if it did, your suggestion number 2 would solve that problem.

 

Now you want to nerf Mprime for yet another reason.  Now you want to change other people's behavior and the game.  The funny thing is that there are other games that already have what you want, so why bother ruining this one?  Why bother staying here if you don't like the foundation of the game?  It's a power spammy game and you don't like that so why bother puttng yourself through it?

[DaveC]

I agree with suggestion 2.  I don't agree with suggestion 1.  You've stated in other posts that Mprime was interfering with your weapon leveling.  I don't think that is the case.  But, if it did, your suggestion number 2 would solve that problem.

 

Now you want to nerf Mprime for yet another reason.  Now you want to change other people's behavior and the game.  The funny thing is that there are other games that already have what you want, so why bother ruining this one?  Why bother staying here if you don't like the foundation of the game?  It's a power spammy game and you don't like that so why bother puttng yourself through it?

No change 2 won't solve weapon leveling issues, that's all part of the XP mechanic, which would have to be overhauled to cater for that specific instance. Your also just trying to obfuscate he reasons for change 1. to be purely down to behaviour changes and putting words into my mouth, your words.

Point 1 is quite valid that you shouldn't be able to cast and cast MP every few seconds. it's about not be able to recast until the effects of the previous MP have ended, or all enemies affected have been killed. To make this palatable, the hard duration of MP would have to be reduced to around 15s.

Why you find this unreasonable, when I make no mention of reducing the damage, changing energy to cast, novas massive energy pool (which is really too large), I fail to understand. I'll keep suggesting this perfectly reasonable change in the hope DE will see it and listen. Otherwise were going to have a 1 or 2 frame game.

NOVA IS NOT FUN FOR OTHER PLAYERS!

Edited January 19, 2014 by DaveC

[Shevian]

No change 2 won't solve weapon leveling issues, that's all part of the XP mechanic, which would have to be overhauled to cater for that specific instance. Your also just trying to obfuscate he reasons for change 1. to be purely down to behaviour changes and putting words into my mouth, your words.

Point 1 is quite valid that you shouldn't be able to cast and cast MP every few seconds. it's about not be able to recast until the effects of the previous MP have ended, or all enemies affected have been killed. To make this palatable, the hard duration of MP would have to be reduced to around 15s.

Why you find this unreasonable, when I make no mention of reducing the damage, changing energy to cast, novas massive energy pool (which is really too large), I fail to understand. I'll keep suggesting this perfectly reasonable change in the hope DE will see it and listen. Otherwise were going to have a 1 or 2 frame game.

NOVA IS NOT FUN FOR OTHER PLAYERS!

As a new players in low lvl run, almost every frames stole my loki's kills with their spam power.

And If I am Nova player, I won't like it if my ability being restricted just because the only reason you come up with is "she not fun" , not because she is op. 

[DaveC]

As a new players in low lvl run, almost every frames stole my loki's kills with their spam power.

And If I am Nova player, I won't like it if my ability being restricted just because the only reason you come up with is "she not fun" , not because she is op.

Thats not the only reason, NOVA is overpowered....but as a new player, you probably wouldn't realise that yet.

[-CM-Syein]

Thats not the only reason, NOVA is overpowered....but as a new player, you probably wouldn't realise that yet.

You seemed to ignored all my points regarding how Nova is not op but more like other frames abilities that doesn't scale need a buff. 

And all you spouted is only Nova is op and op, without any real counter arguments why Nova is op, or is she any different from rhino, trinity when they are godmode, tanking stuffs. 

[bodyshk]

I don't think Nova is overpowered or anything (probably an unpopular opinion around the community), and i think a lot of people want Nova only because it is a dps based warframe.

 

Basically: people like to kill things quickly. They don't care much about other things. If a warframe does exactly that, then it's all they need and the other warframes become pointless in their eyes.

 

But that doesn't make Nova OP or bad or anything, it just makes it popular.

[Makya]

I don't think Nova is overpowered or anything (probably an unpopular opinion around the community), and i think a lot of people want Nova only because it is a dps based warframe.

Not because she is a DPS frame, because she is a DPS frame that can actually DPS in the end game (end planets/void/derelict)

[(PSN)Naughtix]

I've already said what should be done to Nova, but no Nova players seem to want to agree to something which doesn't make it a non DPS frame, but at least bring is some reasonableness to the thing. I'll state it again below:

1. MP shouldn't be able to be recast until the previous one has worn off or all the enemies affected are killed. The duration of MP should be similar to rhino stomp or anything between 15-30s

2. All kills from MP should be distributed evenly across the team, so if a Nova primes 20 enemies that explode, everyone in a team of 4 gets 5 kills. This should apply to all kills made with Warframe offensive powers for any warframe e.g. frost rhino, Saryn etc..

Now I cannot see any problem with above and it will definitely change the behaviours.

+1 Couldn't agree more! Now DE fix this NOOBVA!  

Edited January 19, 2014 by (PS4)Naughtix

[ThePresident777]

No change 2 won't solve weapon leveling issues, that's all part of the XP mechanic, which would have to be overhauled to cater for that specific instance. Your also just trying to obfuscate he reasons for change 1. to be purely down to behaviour changes and putting words into my mouth, your words.

Point 1 is quite valid that you shouldn't be able to cast and cast MP every few seconds. it's about not be able to recast until the effects of the previous MP have ended, or all enemies affected have been killed. To make this palatable, the hard duration of MP would have to be reduced to around 15s.

Why you find this unreasonable, when I make no mention of reducing the damage, changing energy to cast, novas massive energy pool (which is really too large), I fail to understand. I'll keep suggesting this perfectly reasonable change in the hope DE will see it and listen. Otherwise were going to have a 1 or 2 frame game.

NOVA IS NOT FUN FOR OTHER PLAYERS!

 

 

1)  Then why do you insist on confounding Nova with the XP/Leveling issue?

 

2)  Personally, I think all XP should be equally divided between players and all the XP that one gets should be equally divided between all unmaxed weapons and warframe that one is carrying at the time that the XP is alotted.  No sense in wasting XP on already leveld stuff and it's a coop game and players should not be goaded or punished into playing how they don't want to play.  It's also a problem for DE if players start rejecting content because it's a pain in the neck to level it.

 

3)  You haven't proven that it is quite valid that you shouldn't be able to cast and cast MP every few seconds.  Nor have you proven that other alternatives are not valid.  So, you have some work to do, some quite difficult work too.  I don't see how anyone could possibly get around the most inescapable truth of all here: playing a game is entirely an individual choice and as such is entirely rooted in personal opinion. 

 

4)  YOUR NERFS ARE NOT FUN FOR OTHER PLAYERS

Edited January 19, 2014 by ThePresident777

[DaveC]

The Nova lovers really can't see it, they just can't see that their beloved frame is totally OP and needs a rebalance. I suppose I am not surprised in the least.....

The day DE do something about Nova will be a happy one, and with the level of negative feeling from 60% of the community, because 40% play Nova, or aspire to play her, it's bound to get nerfed.

[Makya]

The Nova lovers really can't see it, they just can't see that their beloved frame is totally OP and needs a rebalance. I suppose I am not surprised in the least.....

The day DE do something about Nova will be a happy one, and with the level of negative feeling from 60% of the community, because 40% play Nova, or aspire to play her, it's bound to get nerfed.

Still waiting on an actual Brakk Nerf..

[ThePresident777]

The Nova lovers really can't see it, they just can't see that their beloved frame is totally OP and needs a rebalance. I suppose I am not surprised in the least.....

The day DE do something about Nova will be a happy one, and with the level of negative feeling from 60% of the community, because 40% play Nova, or aspire to play her, it's bound to get nerfed.

 

You can't actually address anyone's points can you?  Pontification seems to be all you're willing to bring to the discussion yet you dare to mention validity.

 

I think it bares repeating:  you're attempting to hunt deer on Omaha Beach on D-Day. 

Edited January 19, 2014 by ThePresident777

[DaveC]

You can't actually address anyone's points can you?  Pontification seems to be all you're willing to bring to the discussion yet you dare to mention validity.

I have addressed the Nova issue with facts on numerous occasions, but no logic or rational argument will work with you guys. You love your Nova just the way it is, you don't and never will consider it overpowered. This in spite of the fact that an unhealthy (for the game) majority of player use Nova, because they know it's way overpowered and that's exactly how they like it.

But, thread after negative thread comes up about Nova, with a strong depth of negative feeling, far more than about every other frame....there has to be some reason for this, but i suppose you can even explain that!

[ThePresident777]

I have addressed the Nova issue with facts on numerous occasions, but no logic or rational argument will work with you guys. You love your Nova just the way it is, you don't and never will consider it overpowered. This in spite of the fact that an unhealthy (for the game) majority of player use Nova, because they know it's way overpowered and that's exactly how they like it.

But, thread after negative thread comes up about Nova, with a strong depth of negative feeling, far more than about every other frame....there has to be some reason for this, but i suppose you can even explain that!

 

 

You have addressed the Nova "issue" with your OPINIONS.  You have not addressed that fact, the fact that you are countering other people's opinions with your own OPINION.

 

Nova being OP is not a fact.  It's an OPINION.  DPS is a fact.  OP is an opinion.  Time To Kill is a fact.  OP is an OPINION.  Reasoning from OPINION produces yet more OPINION, not fact, not truth, just OPINION.

[Tyroki]

I have addressed the Nova issue with facts on numerous occasions, but no logic or rational argument will work with you guys. You love your Nova just the way it is, you don't and never will consider it overpowered. This in spite of the fact that an unhealthy (for the game) majority of player use Nova, because they know it's way overpowered and that's exactly how they like it.

But, thread after negative thread comes up about Nova, with a strong depth of negative feeling, far more than about every other frame....there has to be some reason for this, but i suppose you can even explain that!

 

You want 'facts'?

 

The Nova could use a bit of tweaking, but is otherwise not overpowered based on the games current end game.

Regardless of whether or not DE themselves balance to a base-line of level 40, the players themselves consider late time/wave Survival/Defense to be the end game.

 

Where the end-game, considered by Warframes players, is considered to be late Survival/Defense, the Nova is still capable of holding her own.

 

Does that not, in truth, show that the other damage frames, while generally holding to DE's balance point of level 40, become useless at the games end-game as seen by the actual players?

 

As such, while the Nova may seem overpowered up to DE's balance point of level 40, it is in fact balanced to handle the games end-game content as seen by the actual players.

 

Conclusion: DE need to actually consider the end-game as seen by the players (there is nothing ELSE to do if you get this far), and realise that the other damage frames are significantly under-powered.

 

Seriously. They either need to look at how abilities, especially damage abilities, work in this game.

[ThePresident777]

You want 'facts'?

 

The Nova could use a bit of tweaking, but is otherwise not overpowered based on the games current end game.

Regardless of whether or not DE themselves balance to a base-line of level 40, the players themselves consider late time/wave Survival/Defense to be the end game.

 

Where the end-game, considered by Warframes players, is considered to be late Survival/Defense, the Nova is still capable of holding her own.

 

Does that not, in truth, show that the other damage frames, while generally holding to DE's balance point of level 40, become useless at the games end-game as seen by the actual players?

 

As such, while the Nova may seem overpowered up to DE's balance point of level 40, it is in fact balanced to handle the games end-game content as seen by the actual players.

 

Conclusion: DE need to actually consider the end-game as seen by the players (there is nothing ELSE to do if you get this far), and realise that the other damage frames are significantly under-powered.

 

Seriously. They either need to look at how abilities, especially damage abilities, work in this game.

 

I just want to remark that although DE said that the game is to be balanced around level 40, I see no indication that they are committed to that any more than they are committed to so many other things they have said.  And, what exactly does that mean?  How long does it take to kill a generic level 40 enemy?  How much DPS is required to do so?   Whatever those numbers are, their acceptability is an opinion.

 

And does it mean that anything of lesser DPS is under powered?  Unbalanced?  What about things with higher DPS?  What exactly are we talking about here?

[Cwierz]

I just want to remark that although DE said that the game is to be balanced around level 40, I see no indication that they are committed to that any more than they are committed to so many other things they have said.  And, what exactly does that mean?  How long does it take to kill a generic level 40 enemy?  How much DPS is required to do so?   Whatever those numbers are, their acceptability is an opinion.

 

And does it mean that anything of lesser DPS is under powered?  Unbalanced?  What about things with higher DPS?  What exactly are we talking about here?

We are talking about DE's choice of what to do in terms of what they think the set standard is. I am not DE, nor is he. We are giving feedback about how we feel the game should be changed, and typically supporting that position with thoughts, comparisons, analysis, or other such things typically present in arguments. The most common argument present is unbalancedness, and problems that stem from it. One of your common arguments is that you find the imbalance to be fun. My response is that the fun you have does not stem from the unbalancedness, but rather from the actual core mechanics of what you are using and how you are using it. Lack of balance does not make a game unique, it makes a game bad.

 

The primary argument in these threads should be whether nova is balanced or not, and the primary reasoning for most people who believe that nova is unbalanced is that she far and away blows the rest of the competition out the water by a ridiculous margin. A response to this is typically along the lines that other things need buffs, which simply doesn't work. You cannot just buff everything perpetually. My stance on the matter is that DE should set a general power level first then looking back on the content they have, re-adjust it.

 

However, this does not mean that I am just out to get certain things, I would love to see abilities that are fundamentally bad at the core the be reworked so that they are good. I personally consider that if rhino didn't have the vanguard helmet, and we sorted out issues with the parkour system, that he would be the a good example of a warframe done right (ie: Each ability is good, and serves a purpose well, with none of them being over the top, nor underwhelming to the point to even spark these kind of conversations in the first place)

 

Please do not mis-interpret the above paragraph either. I do not wish every frame to be like rhino, but I used him as an example because without the vanguard helmet he is a very balanced warframe, just as other things in this game should be balanced.

 

 

Edit: I also do believe that the best route for endgame in this game would be a level cap, ending at a determined point that is nigh-impossible to defeat for even the best players being the end-all, for the highest tier things, designed so that players shouldn't/ should have an extremely difficult time beating. This would solve a lot of problems we have with varying endgame perceptions, while making good balance significantly easier to obtain.

Edited January 19, 2014 by Cwierz

[-CM-Syein]

I have addressed the Nova issue with facts on numerous occasions, but no logic or rational argument will work with you guys. You love your Nova just the way it is, you don't and never will consider it overpowered. This in spite of the fact that an unhealthy (for the game) majority of player use Nova, because they know it's way overpowered and that's exactly how they like it.

But, thread after negative thread comes up about Nova, with a strong depth of negative feeling, far more than about every other frame....there has to be some reason for this, but i suppose you can even explain that!

Sorry but I think I could toss your words back to you. You ignored me the moment I pointed out your hypocrite parts. And now you said rational argument? I'm not event main Nova, I'm also opposed to Rhino and Trinity nerf. Why? Because they are frames that needed. 

Here's the whole copy and paste of my points. It is long, but have you properly answer any of that? No. 

 

-everything is an issue if you look at things at low level range. So basically anything, any aoe, any ults. Now, not only frames, even weapons can do it. 

Penta, Ogris, ignis, etc  

 

-not because the other frames are too weak and their power doesn't scale? what logic. 

Why is Nova, Rhino, Nyx, Loki, Trinity etc, are considered useful for end game? 

Because their power scale. Yes, Nova dps is above all, but she is a damage frame.

So what? You wanted all frames to have the same damage power? If that is the case then we don't need any combination of frames being group together. 

So basically 4 lokis, 4 trinities, 4 novas, 4 rhinos etc can just finish the missions for a long period of time without even need any other frames. 

This is a game where one frame good in this area and the another good in other. 

Trinity is best for support/ heal, Frost/Vauban/ Nyx for def, Rhino for tank, and Nova is damage.  That's their role.

 

-I would toss back right at you then if this is the case, all spammable skill will need to have a timer and can't be recast until their abilities wear off. 

This doesn't change the fact that you merely nerfing Nova in making it a frustrating frame to use. 

 

ps, how I like you only stated "offensive powers"  and ignore other spammable skill. 

 

-From what you said, the problem is not Nova but the game system. It doesn't let you choose who should be in your run. 

So if DE make how the host able to choose who able to join the run, then this should fix. 

I really love the ignorance of people who only concentrated on damage, damage, and damage, without considered other areas of the game. 

If damage is everything, we wouldn't need missions such as defense and survival. 

 

-Their damage doesn't scale. Why do you think no players actually ask for them in long survival/ def run? Why is it they only ask for frost, rhino, trinity, nova, vauban, etc? 

Isn't this is why volt and ember need buff. Also, Look at health, and look at shield, they are higher than Nova. Their abilities temporarily help them out of danger such as shield and accelerant. 

In my experiences, power that doesn't scale doesn't last long in survival and def. Eventually it'll become completely useless. 

 

-umm isn't it the other way around? 

Novas fine with people in their run, people not fine with them. so who should be the one solo? 

Also, 30+ min mean it harder to solo, while anything below that is easy. 

 

Just because a frames is considered no fun at low lvl, doesnt mean that frame should be nerf. And this is something people need to keep in mind. I could spam ember WoF in low lvl mission and kill every mobs in my way faster than Nova. 

Because Nova power is stationary/ no duration, while ember's power is mobility/ effect by duration, so talk about low level- mid lvl, anyone could spam. 

 

-Range is not an argument, here's why: Range contributed differently to different frames. 

Nyx's chaos, Rhino's stomp, shield polarize etc all had the same range as molecular prime (25)

Range can be a disadvantage. Can you imagine a frost having 25m range for snowglobe? How can he protect himself with that ridiculous range while his power is solely for def? 

Vauban's range affect his power strength to hang mobs, so having range doesn't mean it will give him absolute advantage. 

Some abilities doesn't required range, trinity's blessing, renewal, rhino's roar etc, such power had no need for range, it immediately effective no matter where you are. Basically, infinite range. 

Given m-prime with such dps, she still die a lot in some situation where some frames are totally at ease. Loki's invisibility and ash's smoke screen are such example. 

Why is she not a top pick for nightmare mission? Answer is quite obvious

Why is she not a top pick for solo? Obvious answer. 

 

your quote: 

"Lets take this one, Rhino stomp does no where near the damage of Molecular prime. if you use corrupted mods as many Nova players do, Roars becomes usless as a DPS buff, and there is no slow in Rhinos ability. Rhinos max energy pool with mods is 300, Nova has 412. Novas ulti does slow, huge debuff and massive damage and can be cast again and again while previous MP is active, unlike Rhino Stomp.

NO COMPARISON and u shouldn't make one" .

 

My answer: If there is no comparison then Nova is not op, why? Because the definition of op applied when a frames can do anything and still doesn't get toast vs high end lvl in any type of mission

if there is no comparison then 4 novas as an op frames should be capable of doing high lvl survival/ def run without the help of other frames

If in this game, there is only nova, nova can't be op because she got a lot of flaws regarding anything beside damage. 

 

And as I said before, when you compare something, you don't compare only damage. Did you read my post where I said: what if a rhino had the same dps as Nova? A tank, good in survival, low lvl and mid lvl can't get past iron skin (2nd skill), high damage buff, and now what if you add Nova's dps in Rhino? 

 

Also aren't you a hypocrite? You told me not to compare. Yet you compared Nova and Rhino, from energy pool, to debuff, to damage and etc.  

How laughable. Practice what you preach. 

[ThePresident777]

We are talking about DE's choice of what to do in terms of what they think the set standard is. I am not DE, nor is he. We are giving feedback about how we feel the game should be changed, and typically supporting that position with thoughts, comparisons, analysis, or other such things typically present in arguments. The most common argument present is unbalancedness, and problems that stem from it. One of your common arguments is that you find the imbalance to be fun. My response is that the fun you have does not stem from the unbalancedness, but rather from the actual core mechanics of what you are using and how you are using it. Lack of balance does not make a game unique, it makes a game bad.

 

The primary argument in these threads should be whether nova is balanced or not, and the primary reasoning for most people who believe that nova is unbalanced is that she far and away blows the rest of the competition out the water by a ridiculous margin. A response to this is typically along the lines that other things need buffs, which simply doesn't work. You cannot just buff everything perpetually. My stance on the matter is that DE should set a general power level first then looking back on the content they have, re-adjust it.

 

However, this does not mean that I am just out to get certain things, I would love to see abilities that are fundamentally bad at the core the be reworked so that they are good. I personally consider that if rhino didn't have the vanguard helmet, and we sorted out issues with the parkour system, that he would be the a good example of a warframe done right (ie: Each ability is good, and serves a purpose well, with none of them being over the top, nor underwhelming to the point to even spark these kind of conversations in the first place)

 

Please do not mis-interpret the above paragraph either. I do not wish every frame to be like rhino, but I used him as an example because without the vanguard helmet he is a very balanced warframe, just as other things in this game should be balanced.

 

 

Edit: I also do believe that the best route for endgame in this game would be a level cap, ending at a determined point that is nigh-impossible to defeat for even the best players being the end-all, for the highest tier things, designed so that players shouldn't/ should have an extremely difficult time beating. This would solve a lot of problems we have with varying endgame perceptions, while making good balance significantly easier to obtain.

 

You totally failed to understand what my question hints at or chose to ignore it.  Considering that I mention DPS and TTK, the hint should be obvious.

 

Rhino without vanguard helmet, ROFLMAO, troll harder, and still using those Extra Credits and Philosophy 101 buzz words, lol.

Edited January 20, 2014 by ThePresident777