Petition To Restore Overheat To Ember

[Nyxcha]

I don't know about you but I put survivability mods in my frame. I don't need 3 seconds of uninterrupted peace to revive someone. Just put redirection on ember and you should be able to last those 2 seconds where people are shooting at you.

its clear you havent seen how short lived those shields are against high levels,  corpus, tenno, and so on.

 

if you basing your logic on infested, sure.

 

otherwise. you not considering it all.

 

seriously have you tried ressing someone in a high level tenno conflict.

[SteeleTheShow]

its clear you havent seen how short lived those shields are against high levels,  corpus, tenno, and so on.

 

if you basing your logic on infested, sure.

 

otherwise. you not considering it all.

 

seriously have you tried ressing someone in a high level tenno conflict.

Well I never put myself in a situation where i'm getting swarmed by mobs because I ran off alone to be a hero. I stick with my team, because this is a team game.

 

Here's a tip: never revive someone if it means you die trying. Kill the mobs around them, then try reviving them. I don't know why you'd try to revive someone in the middle of 100 grineer....You can't help anyone if you're dead too

Edited April 14, 2014 by SteeleTheShow

[Nyxcha]

 

Well I never put myself in a situation where i'm getting swarmed by mobs because I ran off alone to be a hero. I stick with my team, because this is a team game.

 

Here's a tip: never revive someone if it means you die trying. Kill the mobs around them, then try reviving them. I don't know why you'd try to revive someone in the middle of 100 grineer....You can't help anyone if you're dead too

so you gonna let them die because you can't res them.

 

wouldnt that eventually make them do the same to you cause they are made they had to use a revive cause you couldnt kill all the SHOOTING enemys who were either outside your accelerant's range

 

immune to your fire stagger (Tenno, and most high level enemys)

 

have to much hp to be killed fast

 

or who will knock you down.

 

 

 

remember, ember is a close range frame. with no survivability.

 

thats the whole point of this thread. we WANT her to get SOME way to be able to use her skills and not be mauled to death.

she's entirely dependent on her energy pool.

 

no armor,

no speed, 

no above average hp or shields,

lower than normal speed(average is 1.1)

no skills to boost speed, dmg res, immunity to cc, or to redirect bullets

 

 

so comparing her to nova.

both are casters,

 

nova has speed (1 vs 1.2)

nova has 65 armor (aka more than double the dmg res of ember.   5% vs 10%)

both have same energy pool

ember has 25 more shield

 

skill wise

 

1 skills. Ember has longer range, with a nice dmg explosion.  nova's is auto target, but lower dmg. 

so ember wins there

2. skill  Ember's accelerant is 1 sec stun. and a dmg buff.    Nova's antimatter drop has no limit on the dmg, does radiation dmg, meaning it can cause any rare survivors to act like they've been under nyx's chaos.

nova definitely wins there for having both a nice length wise CC chance, and for having infinite possible dmg

3. yeah...no one is going to really compliment ember's fire blast.  it's range can't be boosted.  it rely on enemys entering and staying in it(aka for max dmg u need someone to lure them into the center)    and ember can't survive being the bait.

Nova's worm hole is also less than appealing, 75 energy...basically a quick, expensive, teleport that doesnt block bullets.

so neither of them win any awards here

4. Ember's world on fire forces her to run to enemys and be in moderate range to do dmg.  the blasts do not do AoE dmg, the stagger chance is unreliable(meaning ancients will try to knock you down often).   dmg is pretty nice and havign duration and dmg boosts on it both benefit it.  long cast time, not immune to CC,  no knockdowns on blast

Nova's molecular prime....what to say. cast it fast with no stationary cast time worth mentioning,   more enemys in range when u blow it up = more dmg.   slows enemys down allowing nova to navigate the room better. NOVA IS IMMUNE TO KNOCKDOWNS WHILE CASTING.

Nova wins, since enemys group up alot mroe than they stay spread apart, molecular does more dmg, doesnt require nova to be in close range,  and provides a CC immunity during the cast animation.  the slow down effect is a really good CC.

 

 

 

how about being a benefit to your team?

by ressing.

 

molecular prime slows them down by 50%. that means they move 50% slower, and ATTACK 50% slower. which is EXTREMELY helpful for giving nova suitability to do things like ressing an ally

 

Ember, does not have this. as Steele said. if theres to many. let your ally die. how helpful.

 

well, why choose ember over nova then.

....there's a reason?

 

 

 

 

 

 

if you'd like me to compare her to another frame. plz post the frame name.

try to limit it to casters, as tanks will automatically win.

[SteeleTheShow]

 

 

so you gonna let them die because you can't res them.

 

Ember, does not have this. as Steele said. if theres to many. let your ally die. how helpful.

 

well, why choose ember over nova then.

....there's a reason?

 

if you'd like me to compare her to another frame. plz post the frame name.

try to limit it to casters, as tanks will automatically win.

 

Yes, that is EXACTLY what I propose....If they are downed, you will be of more benefit trying to clear out the mobs than trying to res them and dying yourself. I don't understand how you can argue that you would be more useful when dead. Chances are they have  revive anyway.

 

Compare her to banshee then. Or nyx. all are dependent on energy with very little survivability. Nyx does almost no damage but is great at CC and banshee is just....banshee....half useful half useless.

Edited April 14, 2014 by SteeleTheShow

[SteeleTheShow]

 

3 minutes in i was downed.

 

 

The majority of the game is not you fighting Tenno. To change Ember based on a single mission type would be unwise. To fight Tenno, Ember is probably not the best idea. To fight PVE, Ember is wonderful. DE has said before that they will not change frames based on PVP.

[kimahn]

i never played ember seriously, i will probably never but ... i agree, she look like a bearpuncher coffee drinker, a lot more than valk ... perhaps ... she could .. you know.

 

be another thing than a magicien with a robe and a ridiculous wand. i really dont see the OPness in it, it s not gamebreaking, 0 troll potential .. so ..

[.Czern]

You all keep discussing about stats but what about fking gameplay?

The only thing you can do with Ember's skills are fire explosions.

Fire explosions, fire explosions and fire explosions.

Boring!

 

More, Overheat doesn't make Ember tanky. It gives you chance to survive in large crowds (just like Iron Skin) and small (0,5 meter, guys, really... its nothing) damaging aura. Compare it to Blessing or Iron Skin, complete invulnerability for whole team, up to 27secs and massive shield buffer with resistance to every proc and knockdown (and IrnS lasts until destroyed).

 

Overheat wouldnt be over powered if it reduced range and damage of other skills for its duration. Oh and damage reduction cap, of course.

 

What I want is more versatile Ember, because now she is only damaging enemies. Little CC, little survivalibity, slow movement. And when it comes to level 30+ Grineer flames doesn't matter.

[BlueSilkMetallic]

signed

[Nyxcha]

Yes, that is EXACTLY what I propose....If they are downed, you will be of more benefit trying to clear out the mobs than trying to res them and dying yourself. I don't understand how you can argue that you would be more useful when dead. Chances are they have  revive anyway.

 

Compare her to banshee then. Or nyx. all are dependent on energy with very little survivability. Nyx does almost no damage but is great at CC and banshee is just....banshee....half useful half useless.

welcome to pain town.

 

 

Nyx. no survivability?

 

nyx skill 3.   chaos.  ultimate CC ever. all enemys attack eachother(and you) but its easy to get away from them firing at you.

as a result, this skill is the ultimate CC and amazing for any mission, any situation.

 

nyx skill 4,  think of Nova's 2 skill. except longer. bigger explosions. 

the higher the level enemys. the more dmg this thing gets.

 

AND if ally's shoot it. thier dmg is also added in.

nyx has no dmg? LOL i've hit 32k dmg explosions with this.

 

 

 

 

banshee.

1 skill, sonic boom.  knockdown. great for CC and spammable!

 

2 skill....eh

 

3 skill great for boosting dmg.  its like accelerant. except its for all dmg types.  so its great

 

4. skill.  dmg is ok,  but she immune. so its an oh fk button.  specially as modded, the invincibility lasts for 1 secound after the skill is over. giving you a head start to move to cover.

dmg wise, its equal to world on fire, but stationary.  then again. it works!  invincible while being close range. 

 

 

 

 

The majority of the game is not you fighting Tenno. To change Ember based on a single mission type would be unwise. To fight Tenno, Ember is probably not the best idea. To fight PVE, Ember is wonderful. DE has said before that they will not change frames based on PVP.

it wasnt PvP

 

it was dark sector conflicts.  

enemy NPC warframes using warframe abilities.

 

 

 

 

signed

as i said Steele. keeping the thread alive. gets it more attention like this =)

Edited April 14, 2014 by Arenta

[VoidWraith]

Fireball is ok-ish, since it's a first skill...

Fireblast is nice in it's own way, but the damage and effect is bad in my opinion.

Accelerant... is just not enough....

World on Fire..... it's ok-ish as well, but still not that great.

 

Side-note:

In general, I feel that all skills should be equally useful and powerful. When you introduce an "ultimate skill" it reduces the uses for other skills 80% of the time.... Only time to make an "ultimate skill" actually ultimate is if it meets a few criterias/conditions to use, like a cooldown to reduce spamming and high energy cost (by that i mean it should deplete almost all of your energy upon use, hence it being "ultimate"). All the other skills should be on the same level, that way it would just be on preferences and situations. I don't know... just my opinion on how skills are at the moment.

[SteeleTheShow]

No, nyx and banshee have no survivability. They have almost zero armor, and low shields and health. You pointed to ember having no survivability for these reasons so I'm pointing to nyx and banshee as having these problems as well. That is the nature of a caster....your only survivability comes from abilities.

 

I already said that nyx has great CC and banshee is half good and half bad. But how many of their abilities work on Tenno? can you mind control one?

 

What about banshee's sound quake? if it has similar range to ember's world on fire then you don't have to run around and get shot at. You can just sit tight in a safe corner and only hit the people in range. Ember has a mobile ult, which outshines banshees.

[Nyxcha]

survivability isn't just armor hp and shields. its also CC

 

CC is crowd control.  aka active survivability. aka things u can affect like speed

 

armor, hp, shields. these are passive survivability. aka things you cant affect.

 

Ember's CC isn't 100%.  and even if its fire proc works. many enemys ignore it.

 

 

 

you right. caster survivability comes from abilities.  which ember sucks at.

 

Nyx has it.

 

Banshee has it (cause she can pop it off in the middle of a enemy party and come out laughing while the ember in the corner tries to get up on broken legs)

 

 

in fact, accelerant vs sonar?  sonar wins as it works for all dmg types. not just a fire proc on a frame whose abilities are not 100% fire proc chance.

 

 

 

 

 

and read what i said.

i not talkign about PvP i talking about dark sector conflict.

Edited April 14, 2014 by Arenta

[HackShield]

overheat cant come back like before cause the dmg tables are now very different but yup fire blast suxx >.>

[Recel]

You all keep discussing about stats but what about fking gameplay?

The only thing you can do with Ember's skills are fire explosions.

Fire explosions, fire explosions and fire explosions.

Boring!

 

More, Overheat doesn't make Ember tanky. It gives you chance to survive in large crowds (just like Iron Skin) and small (0,5 meter, guys, really... its nothing) damaging aura. Compare it to Blessing or Iron Skin, complete invulnerability for whole team, up to 27secs and massive shield buffer with resistance to every proc and knockdown (and IrnS lasts until destroyed).

 

Overheat wouldnt be over powered if it reduced range and damage of other skills for its duration. Oh and damage reduction cap, of course.

 

What I want is more versatile Ember, because now she is only damaging enemies. Little CC, little survivalibity, slow movement. And when it comes to level 30+ Grineer flames doesn't matter.

 

Stat wise, I don't mind being squishy. I wouldn't mind being slow and having to stay safe and further from the enemies, IF I had proper skills to do so.

I think people want Overheat because we have 3 AoE skills, for which we have to get closer to use, so it complements these skills. But I for one would actually like to see Ember turned into a real caster. If that's what DE wants to actually do it than get rid of some of the AoE skills and give us some more fun and usefull ones ones.

 

Tho you say all Ember has is fire damage. But she is a frame based on fire, so I began to think what can you do with fire... how about blast?

How about changing the initial damage of skills from fire to blast damage with a chance, or a sure effect?

 

Say fireball could do blast damage on impact with 100% effect chance? The AoE and burn can come after it, but on the main target It would be a short but nice CC you could cast on demand, instead of crossing your fingers with Accelerant.

Some changes on that line.

 

I think just changeing the initial damage type of her skills from fire to blast with a chance to proc the effect would already make her a lot more usefull and a bit more fun.

Tho added to this I would still like to see her more as a ranged caster instead of an AoE spammer.

[Nyxcha]

thats an option.

 

in the end though. we need SOME form of reliable CC.

something we know will work and we dont need RNG to decide.

 

100% fire proc for example

or 100% knockback or stagger or stun(that lasts longer than 1 secound)

 

 

we need something that will causes enemys to stumble in thier charge at you to give you some room to use more skills.

 

 

 

if thats overheat with its dmg res

or fireball with a stagger explosion

 

or world on fire actually knocking down enemys. (i mean COME ON. hydroid's incapacitated them for the ENTIRE DURATION.  why cant ours)

or make world on fire deal AoE explosion!(NOVA DOES. WHY NOT US)

 

 

we need SOMETHING that works with ember.

 

fireblast is a nono cause of reasons i stated before

Edited April 15, 2014 by Arenta

[Nyxcha]

i just took a rhino (SwiftPotato12) through phobo's dark sector conflict.

 

he said it was really hard(i'll say. i had to res him twice)

 

i told him to try it on an ember.

he said no way in hell.

 

 

 

more proof.

[theammostore]

i just took a rhino (SwiftPotato12) through phobo's dark sector conflict.

 

he said it was really hard(i'll say. i had to res him twice)

 

i told him to try it on an ember.

he said no way in hell.

 

 

 

more proof.

So one person says 'no way am i doing this with ember' means Ember's bad? In that case I'm never going to do a Phobos mission with Vauban.

 

Ember can be good in the right hands. No, not as great as some other ones, but those listed in your example area just in general really powerful. Some might say they need a nerf. That doesn't mean Ember shouldn't be buffed, but compared something to the absolute best is always going to give 'this isn't good enough!'

Edited April 15, 2014 by theammostore

[RealPandemonium]

"Nova, Trinity, Rhino exist, all other frames suck and should be buffed until they're as stupid as those three"  is a depressingly prevalent view on these forums.  I hope it's just a vocal minority, but sometime I wonder.

[.Czern]

 

How about changing the initial damage of skills from fire to blast damage with a chance, or a sure effect?

 

Say fireball could do blast damage on impact with 100% effect chance? The AoE and burn can come after it, but on the main target It would be a short but nice CC you could cast on demand, instead of crossing your fingers with Accelerant.

Some changes on that line.

 

I think just changeing the initial damage type of her skills from fire to blast with a chance to proc the effect would already make her a lot more usefull and a bit more fun.

Tho added to this I would still like to see her more as a ranged caster instead of an AoE spammer.

Hell no! Ember is a fire warframe, there is no point in changing this.

 

What I wanted to say is that current Ember's utility skill is boring to use and the only thing it does is damage debuff on enemies around you.

Overheat was much more fun to use, and in my opion much more viable.

 

 

Ember can be good in the right hands. No, not as great as some other ones, but those listed in your example area just in general really powerful. Some might say they need a nerf. That doesn't mean Ember shouldn't be buffed, but compared something to the absolute best is always going to give 'this isn't good enough!'

 

You don't get the point. We want one skill back (not necesarry by removing Accelerant), not enhance Ember to level of "the absolute best".

Edited April 15, 2014 by CKN_Czarny

[theammostore]

You don't get the point. We want one skill back (not necesarry by removing Accelerant), not enhance Ember to level of "the absolute best".

 

I understand that, but giving someone who we know is not meant to be tanky a dedicated tank button seems off. I don't mind if it came back through some other mechanic, for example fireballing your feet, but a simple dedicated button where all you do is get damage reduction and a heat aura...eh. That's what I'm against.

[.Czern]

So you say that it would be too simple? You may be right but I don't see any other way to activate it :D But I'm sure somebody does.

Maybe giving Overheat long cooldown (40-60 secs) would be enough to balance it. Or enough to break it. I don't know.

[NikolaiLev]

It seems like when people give cases of a frame not being good enough they are assuming that the player is not moving, using cover, or avoiding damage whatsoever.  WoF is one hundred percent safe if you use it from behind cover and you can use Accelerant to stun enemies and run to the next cover spot.  You can copter through an entire room in 2 seconds.  I can't be the only one who has figured these things out, but a lot of feedback sounds like the reporter doesn't understand how to play the game properly.  

 

This thread isn't about Ember being ineffective.  It's about Ember being boring compared to what she used to be.

[Nyxcha]

This thread isn't about Ember being ineffective.  It's about Ember being boring compared to what she used to be.

mostly about her being boring

but a bit is also about her being ineffective compared to other frames.

 

cause theres no reason to choose her when another frame can do something better.

[RealPandemonium]

This thread isn't about Ember being ineffective.  It's about Ember being boring compared to what she used to be.

Restoring an ability that allowed Ember to ignore 90% of damage won't make her more exciting; quite the contrary.  Accelerant-based survivability is much more exciting than just not being worried about incoming damage because it just scratches you. 

 

mostly about her being boring

but a bit is also about her being ineffective compared to other frames.

 

cause theres no reason to choose her when another frame can do something better.

There's no reason to play anything besides Nova and Trinity, but that's not a good thing and should change. 

[GTG3000]

Restoring an ability that allowed Ember to ignore 90% of damage won't make her more exciting; quite the contrary.  Accelerant-based survivability is much more exciting than just not being worried about incoming damage because it just scratches you. 

 

There's no reason to play anything besides Nova and Trinity, but that's not a good thing and should change. 

 

So, cake versus pie then?

 

To me, Ember with 90% damage reduction was more exiting than Ember with 1-second stun. It allowed me to plow into the crowd and use melee to my heart's content, while dealing AoE fire damage to everyone. New ember has to stay on Ignis range from everything, an prioritize on running around and hiding as opposed to rushing at the enemy. 

 

While I'm not saying such gameplay isn't fun, there are frames that do that better than Ember. Ash, for example. There is a better glass cannon and better AoE CC. I don't know about you (well, okay, we do know about you, you actually said your opinion on this), but I just don't feel that a "MOAR DAMAGE!" button is doing Ember that much justice.