People Flying Across Rooms, Etc

[General_Krull]

Does coperting truely enhance or improve the over all game play? You use rocket jumping and skating as examples, but those brought something unique to the game play and fundamentally change those games as a result.

Warframe's core gameplay and pacing aren't stable enough to allow this glitch to remain as crutch. It allows players to ignore what isn't working and thus allows DE to pretend they don't have to deal with it. When the stamina Nerf came and slowed everyone the cry was "omg this is so boring, the tiles are repetitive, and boring." Rather then address that, DE slapped back on the morphine patch that is "going fast".

The crutch use of the glitch needs to removed, if for nothing else then to force DE to address lack-luster core elements of the game. That it is boring, repetitive, monotonous, and the only way people are finding enjoyment is speeding through the levels as fast they can possibly can (by any means).

Coperting doesn't change the way game plays, it just lets you play it faster and bypass the "boring, slow" parts.

=====

Lets look at another glitch in Warframe itself. Crouch-to-continue-vertical-wall-runs. Much like coptering this is a glitch, not a very useful one at the momment because it doesn't help, forward SPEED. This is much close to rocket jumping or skating in that it adds an additonal element, verticality. If vertical wall running wasn't slowed overtime, and was allowed to continue to the limit of stamina, this would change how Warframe could be played (in part through allow more vertical level design).

Things like the broken elevator on the Coprus Ship Defense Map wouldn't have to be packed full of junk to make it an accessable climb.

This expands game play.

I will grant that coperting does allow horizontal boosts to areas that normal wall running or jumping doesn't currently allow that COULD expand game play, however that is not primary use it is being put toward. Its main value is in bypassing "boring repetitive monotonous" sections, which says a great deal about what DE should be fixining so that removing a glitch doesn't cause half the forum going community to blow a gasket any time anyone even hits at taking it out.

But people have been saying to DE all the maps are boring since forever, it has not changed a bit. If DE removed coptering a lot of people would simply quit. 

There is no good reason to remove coptering.

[ThePresident777]

Does coperting truely enhance or improve the over all game play? You use rocket jumping and skating as examples, but those brought something unique to the game play and fundamentally change those games as a result.

Warframe's core gameplay and pacing aren't stable enough to allow this glitch to remain as crutch. It allows players to ignore what isn't working and thus allows DE to pretend they don't have to deal with it. When the stamina Nerf came and slowed everyone the cry was "omg this is so boring, the tiles are repetitive, and boring." Rather then address that, DE slapped back on the morphine patch that is "going fast".

The crutch use of the glitch needs to removed, if for nothing else then to force DE to address lack-luster core elements of the game. That it is boring, repetitive, monotonous, and the only way people are finding enjoyment is speeding through the levels as fast they can possibly can (by any means).

Coperting doesn't change the way game plays, it just lets you play it faster and bypass the "boring, slow" parts.

=====

Lets look at another glitch in Warframe itself. Crouch-to-continue-vertical-wall-runs. Much like coptering this is a glitch, not a very useful one at the momment because it doesn't help, forward SPEED. This is much close to rocket jumping or skating in that it adds an additonal element, verticality. If vertical wall running wasn't slowed overtime, and was allowed to continue to the limit of stamina, this would change how Warframe could be played (in part through allow more vertical level design).

Things like the broken elevator on the Coprus Ship Defense Map wouldn't have to be packed full of junk to make it an accessable climb.

This expands game play.

I will grant that coperting does allow horizontal boosts to areas that normal wall running or jumping doesn't currently allow that COULD expand game play, however that is not primary use it is being put toward. Its main value is in bypassing "boring repetitive monotonous" sections, which says a great deal about what DE should be fixining so that removing a glitch doesn't cause half the forum going community to blow a gasket any time anyone even hits at taking it out.

 

 

 

 

Oh, I get it!  Games can only be fun if they are slooooowwwwww.  You are aware that the game is advertised as fast and fluid, right?

[DJ_Redwire]

I don't really think DE wants to tackle this issue in any way even in Melee 2.0, and if we are going to see a nerf, I'm not expecting it for a long time. Ultimately I don't think they're going to change anything - personally I'm completely indifferent to it.

[(PSN)fingernageldreck]

And you could say coptering is our answer to the evil RNG god. If we cut down times of instances we can force him to give us what we deserve earlier.

[SilverBones]

Last batch of back-and-forth cleaned up.

 

I understand many of you have high feelings about this, and to rush/not to rush has been a sore point of discussion for a while now. However in talking about it, please refrain from personal insults or else the thread is getting locked.

 

Otherwise this is a good discussion. Just keep it civil.

[XDeathCoreX]

Don't even try. that guy is incapable of rational thought. So is the majority of this forum judging by the votes that comment got. 

 

Apparently a warframe glitching through the sky = ninjas going fast. So its helps the game's image.

 

That is childish argumentation. 

 

I'm pretty sure DE is aware that this thing is stupid but keeps it in the game just because they are scared of the reaction the community might have. This was proven when they removed the speeding run and slide and put it back into the game because the community complained. 

Well, if warframes weren't so daman slow except a few this wouldn't even be an issue. hell, even volt is slow and needs a power to go as fast as another frame. Ninjas move fast, therefore replace this copter with something that makes sense that would satisfy everyone whether it be a speed burst for all frames or a movement speed buff for all frames or that speed burst for certain weapons whether you have to equip them or not.

 

Either way, ninjas go fast and I have yet to play a game with slows ninjas until warframe.

 

And ignoring the crowd can be a big mistake. All depends on what it involves, what they implement in it's place, etc. You don't want the crowd to stop buying cash shp goods and slow down development. Just gotta deal with flying Rhinos. Pretend you're dreaming.

 

Who knows, maybe you'll see a flying pig too, then something may get done.

[Pixues]

Well, if warframes weren't so daman slow except a few this wouldn't even be an issue. hell, even volt is slow and needs a power to go as fast as another frame. Ninjas move fast, therefore replace this copter with something that makes sense that would satisfy everyone whether it be a speed burst for all frames or a movement speed buff for all frames or that speed burst for certain weapons whether you have to equip them or not.

 

Either way, ninjas go fast and I have yet to play a game with slows ninjas until warframe.

 

And ignoring the crowd can be a big mistake. All depends on what it involves, what they implement in it's place, etc. You don't want the crowd to stop buying cash shp goods and slow down development. Just gotta deal with flying Rhinos. Pretend you're dreaming.

 

Who knows, maybe you'll see a flying pig too, then something may get done.

 

Yes exactly. They should fix the game by removing a glitch like looking move and replace with something else that makes you go fast/feel like going fast.

 

My first comment was: 

 

"I think it is kinda stupid DE isn't fixing this. Hurts the game's image." which equals: Glitch like looking moves look stupid, therefore hurting the game's image. 

 

But that is way too hard to comprehend for some, so it translates into: "This guy is against speed"

[-HAKUNA-YOUR-TATAS-]

The ninja run thing from Metal Gear Revengeance is the way to go if we wanted Warframe to have those "cinematic ninja" feels...  However, all stamina mods would be useless though...

 

Please no stamina 2.0...  lol.  % chance to run, etc. = luckier player gets to go faster..

[ThePresident777]

The ninja run thing from Metal Gear Revengeance is the way to go if we wanted Warframe to have those "cinematic ninja" feels...  However, all stamina mods would be useless though...

 

Please no stamina 2.0...  lol.  % chance to run, etc. = luckier player gets to go faster..

 

They could make stamina a Nightmare Mode Challenge.  It wouldn't bother me at all if stamina mods became useless.  Stamina is slow and lame.

[Ourobor]

Holy crap when I first saw this topic I didn't expect it to turn into the zoren copter nerf thread. But it did and I'll put in my two cents after reading a few of the earlier pages.

I have two problems with it.

My problem while playing the game with people who zoren copter is not the actual "maneuver", but the people who use it. I don't think I've ever seen a person who did it in pub who then didn't get all huffy at the rest of the team after they skipped all the enemies, left the rest of the squad in the dust and then hit an orange door. I honestly don't care if you do it, just don't be a $&*^. Rushing to kill everything before everyone else can is annoying, doing the mission without us is annoying so if you have them for that purpose, I don't like you and wish you wouldn't play in pub.

My other problem is that it doesn't make any sense that you should get a speed buff for spin attacking(we aren't bounty hunters who kill energy parasites >.>). I like that using zoren is a choice to be faster that takes away from your melee power. I don't zoren, but from what I've seen people don't seem to consider it the best melee weapon ever, just one that makes you go faster. So why not just have a thing that makes you just as fast, but takes away from your melee power. If you want to be really fast, it should require some amount of sacrifice for it in the same way that rush/quick rest/whatever costs mod slots on your frame. Also you won't look like an idiot either(I cannot believe that anyone doesn't at least think that zorencoptering looks dumb).

[Issun135]

I KAMACOPTER, 480+ (base as the arsenal fails to show accurate stats) dmg on slide attack, decapate any who stand in the way and have a semi-decant melee weapon after. Which reminds me there are no mods that boost slide damage out put but there are ones for regular and charged attacks...

Edited January 27, 2014 by Issun135

[ThePresident777]

Don't even try. that guy is incapable of rational thought. So is the majority of this forum judging by the votes that comment got. 

 

Apparently a warframe glitching through the sky = ninjas going fast. So its helps the game's image.

 

That is childish argumentation. Completely lacking any designer's perspective. 

 

I'm pretty sure DE is aware that this thing is stupid but keeps it in the game just because they are scared of the reaction the community might have. This was proven when they removed the speeding run and slide thing and put it back into the game because the community complained when it was removed. 

 

They advertised a fast game.  Nothing is stopping them from making good on their claims.  Whether they intended it or not, zorencoptor is one of the things that makes the game fast, and I find it funny too.  If DE would make the game fast then zorencoptor could be obsolete.  But, instead, they keep trying to kill the game, trying to make it sloooowwww and craptastic like ME3 MP.

 

DE ripped off ME3 when they made a Startrek game last year.  It didn't sell very well.  You would think they would learn their lesson.  Don't rip off other games, especially crappy dead one that the owner walked away from after a year.

[Voidflow]

Fast game is fine, fast beyond pointless - bad.

DE should buff sprint speed and lower stamina drain while running.

More stamina drain for airkick and slide attack and everything will be fine.

Atm its just a bad design with room for exploiting ...

Slide attack should not add additional momentum.

Jumpkick should drain more stamina than sprint for same distance, because of simple physics.

Warframe has stamina for a reason ... atm it is not balanced at all, especially with respect to existing mods, some abilities and availible mod slots.

Edited January 28, 2014 by Voidflow

[Nenjin]

Never used it, although I use the Kamas so I get what's going on. I've never played in a match where seeing someone do it really bothered me that much. I like to go fast too. I just prefer not to pigeonhole myself to one weapon because of it. I think that's taking it too far and people that get so attached to one weapon they always use it are bound to end up getting disappointed one way or another. Either by mechanical changes or an outright nerf.

That said, I personally love jump kick/sliding across the map because it's practically faster than running and uses less stamina. And I'd hate for someone to come screaming at me, especially in a game like WF, that I have to stop doing it. Rushing is one thing. How people rush is another. Don't conflate the two and start yelling for nerfs when someone has a technique that means they go faster than you.

Edited January 28, 2014 by Nenjin

[XDeathCoreX]

Yes exactly. They should fix the game by removing a glitch like looking move and replace with something else that makes you go fast/feel like going fast.

 

My first comment was: 

 

"I think it is kinda stupid DE isn't fixing this. Hurts the game's image." which equals: Glitch like looking moves look stupid, therefore hurting the game's image. 

 

But that is way too hard to comprehend for some, so it translates into: "This guy is against speed"

The thing is, no one can imagine what could replace it, not even the devs so until they do or you guys come up with one, it won't budge. And the main reason they love it is the slow warframes.

 

And the Tenno are Speed Demons confined to a slow warframe so the answer is to fly, solve their problem and this fix shall come with no outcry.

 

So the answer would be to take this "exploit" and make it work with the game and change it to make sense, make it make sense, make it look cool, it can only be done with a few weapons, use that. Or perhaps think bigger and expand it to more things. That way, no one is hatin'

 

Of course, all this takes forever, so enjoy this "Exploit" for the long haul.

 

It ain't going anywhere. The general idea is that this is the best thing since sliced bread and also the stupidest looking thing in warframe. Fun, yet stupid. How to find that middle ground?

Edited January 28, 2014 by XDeathCoreX

[dashashou]

The thing is, no one can imagine what could replace it, not even the devs so until they do or you guys come up with one, it won't budge. And the main reason they love it is the slow warframes.

 

And the Tenno are Speed Demons confined to a slow warframe so the answer is to fly, solve their problem and this fix shall come with no outcry.

 

So the answer would be to take this "exploit" and make it work with the game and change it to make sense, make it make sense, make it look cool, it can only be done with a few weapons, use that. Or perhaps think bigger and expand it to more things. That way, no one is hatin'

 

Of course, all this takes forever, so enjoy this "Exploit" for the long haul.

 

It ain't going anywhere. The general idea is that this is the best thing since sliced bread and also the stupidest looking thing in warframe. Fun, yet stupid. How to find that middle ground?

 

Sadly the fix is an easy one make  every frames run speed 1.4 , and remove stamina , so were sliding  jumping when and where we want, not cause we need to because some put the old style chains attached to a lead ball to our legs 

 

If the running is fast and fun   people will want to run , then de could kill the coptering . But atm running isn't fun why ; 

 

Cause being the fat kid on the track team is never fun .

Edited January 28, 2014 by Ravel7

[(NSW)Omgwtfl9lbbl]

Honestly, if you remove Zorencoptering because you think it looks dumb and makes no sense, you have to remove sliding and jump sliding as methods of getting around fast, too.

 

Because face it. The idea that you sprint for one second and then slide for a burst of speed and distance, only to repeat a every couple of seconds looks insanely stupid and makes absolutely no sense.

 

Falling down and incline and sliding down it for the full length? Sure, that makes enough sense to me, I guess. Having a glorified

 on your way to Alad V? I dunno.

 

One of the first things that I thought when I first started playing was... wow, when the devs were kids, they must have really loved sliding on slick floors with their socks.

 

Not to mention that somehow, plopping your butt down and grinding it against the floor actually results in an increase in speed. Yeah, makes sense. People keep throwing around the argument that ninjas don't zoom through the air by swinging axes, but hey - first off, we're SPACE ninjas, so we can throw more logic out the window than people already do when it comes to regular ones, and second, I'm pretty sure ninjas didn't regularly grind their butt on the floor every few seconds in an attempt to maintain speed and momentum while they "rest" for half a second to catch their breath.

 

Now, I honestly don't care if it doesn't make sense or doesn't look fantastic, only that it is fun and actually helps keep the game interesting, which is why I keep doing it. If they remove it, then sprinting and stamina need to be revamped considerably so that simply holding down sprint is actually efficient and feels fast, and even if they did so, it wouldn't feel as fast. One of the keys that helps Zorencoptering (and sliding/wall run boosting) feel fast is the fact that you're actually pressing buttons and doing something. You feel more active. In comparison, simply holding down the sprint is a very passive method of movement, and will naturally feel slower regardless of how fast you're actually going.

 

Seriously, with melee 2.0 coming out, you have a chance to make this, I don't know... actually a part of the game. If you're looking to buff melee in a way that it becomes a viable alternative to gunplay without outright nerfing all the guns, then you can make it a legitimate tradeoff to sacrifice a potentially high damage melee option for greater movement speed options. You can make certain weapons weaker by default, but in return have the ability of improving your mobility when used uniquely.

Edited January 28, 2014 by omgwtflolbbl

[NeroGrave]

So the answer is: "I do not understand or want to partake in the options available for me, thusly, the party that does it should be punished." ?

 

This is the old Looter/Rusher debate all over again, and it boiled down to one simple answer: DE adds a gameplay preference to their matchmaking. We have been discussing this for a long time, and many, many players have no interest at all at crawlin through the levels at a relaxed jogging speed. These players, veterans of many hours, tired from the repetitive missions, just want to get things over with. Going fast is the one thing in Warframe where you can display craft and skill. Where you have a tangible challenge - the clock.

 

Removal of that element takes the last fun out of the game for those who played it a fair amount of time.

 

What we need is not appeasing the slow or fast, punishing the fast or slow, we need preferences, and we needed them eight months ago. But we still need them. I would love to select "Fast/Rush" as my playstyle and never be matched up with people who open the last locker in a godforsaken corner. I am sure those people would be happy to select "Slow/Loot" to take their time and be matched up with likeminded individuals, lest they lose their credits and/or miss stuff because the fast people are already extracting as they are still picking stuff up.

 

So, there. It's an old issue. Playstyle preferences for the matchmaker, please.

 

PS: And leave 'coptering alone, really. Dont kill the fun, DE. You don't hate fun, do you?

Bu... buh.. But.... I will be left behind! Everyone's faster than me! I can't catch up with them at all so I'm going to complain to DE to remove this coptering thing because I think its making me feel like a turtle! I won't allow you to be faster than me!!! You must go slow like me because I want to open all those lockers and pick up my 20 credits. You all should follow my relaxed playstyle!  Ninjas MOVE SLOW, ok?? Ninjas don't play free.

 

*huehuehue*

[DJ_Redwire]

One of the first things that I thought when I first started playing was... wow, when the devs were kids, they must have really loved sliding on slick floors with their socks.

 

Probably the most accurate description of the majority of DE's staff to date. 

[DonZardeone]

11 pages and no mention of gunz online o.o

 

In that game, you had a pistol/ar or whatever, and a sword. The sword could be used to stab the wall, pull yourself up, stab wall again, repeat, to climb walls. At some point someone noticed that if you slash your sword at an angle with the wall, you can move up the wall much faster. And thus the butterfly technique was found. This was a bug that the devs kept in because it was super popular and gave the game a unique feature.

 

Zorencopter is very similar. Imo it should be kept but replicated on most other weapons.

 

Realism wise it obviously isn't realistic unless you start looking at history and cool martial arts movies where they use swords to slash the air to get up in the air. Or that famous japanese sword that was so perfect that it could split light and make the wielder invisible.

[(PSN)fingernageldreck]

Is realism that important in a game about space ninjas? :D

[Ratiasu]

They should add the option of sacrificing a weapon in exchange for a utility item. Id so give away my melee weapon in exchange for a zorencopterish item without damaging abilities.

[Ced23Ric]

Just like knife running, strafejumping, rocketjumping, butterflying, reloadrolling, Battlefield's C4 catapults and many other quirks, those are elevated techniques that make a game excel above it's intentions. Coptering is one of those things. It is a technique you can, but don't have to use. It makes Warframe a little different, and you all know Warframe could use more, not less, of distinctive, exciting features.

 

If anything, Coptering needs expansion. What about vertical coptering? What about giving every frame the grappling hook, as I suggested in January 2013? What about making this game truly about speed and mobility? What about adding ceiling crawlers, wall leapers, giving the Corpus hoverboards, more Grineer jetpackers? What about verticality, 3D space, instead of the almost exclusively planar fights we got used to from the Doom era?

 

Coptering may not be intended, but it is a good thing. You have to be a traditionalist on principle to dislike it, really. "But it's not meant like that!" *pouty face* is denying accidential inovation. Rather, embrace it, expand it, and make it a unique trait of a game desperately in need of unique elements.

[Dalu__Ka]

Give us bunny hopping.