Removal Of Ability Cards?

[ttv_Typical_Tilly]

We build our frames around 1 or 2 skills mostly. Which is fine but by the time we polarize out some of those slots than an A,BC build slot is only to change which faction you use elements for not an actual different build. But if we went back to how it used to be and gave you all the abilities all the time. We could mod much better to make use of more than 1 or 2 abilities because it wouldn't take loadout points or slots to use them.

[Verryn]

Some people use all 4 and some don't. If you don't like the fact that other people do this than change your own with formas.

[ttv_Typical_Tilly]

Some people use all 4 and some don't. If you don't like the fact that other people do this than change your own with formas.

Exactly why I said its a problem. If I want to do a build to maximize on an ability. A lot of times I have to forma out an ability polarity. So later if I want to play that frame a different way, I would have to repolarize it? That doesn't seem right..... If I had access to all the abilities though without need of cards for them. I could just use the A,B,C slots for builds that focus those abilities but don't remove the others. So yeah, Fleeting experise on volt would make shield and speed a bit useless but at least I can still use them on a shock build. Also I can switch to defensive next time and use mods that boost duration for the team to make those abilities last longer. Yet I still have my ult available if I need it, just won't be cheap on energy. I fail to see how that would not benefit everyone.

[LordofTibera]

Bottom line: its stupid. These tenno are masters of their craft and have the ability and knowledge to bring back the dead and generate fireballs. That should be an innate part of choosing that frame. Even if you choose not to use certain powers you shouldnt be punished

[ExplodingStars]

Don't think it would make any appreciable difference in the usefulness of the almost useless abilities. 

People will continue to build their Warframes around 1 and sometimes 2 abilities regardless if the game gives them the option to maximize for the other 2. 

[Makya]

With this then.. No ability cards and frames are only allowed 6 mod slots. Sound fair?

[ttv_Typical_Tilly]

Bottom line: its stupid. These tenno are masters of their craft and have the ability and knowledge to bring back the dead and generate fireballs. That should be an innate part of choosing that frame. Even if you choose not to use certain powers you shouldnt be punished

Exactly my point.

 

Don't think it would make any appreciable difference in the usefulness of the almost useless abilities. 

People will continue to build their Warframes around 1 and sometimes 2 abilities regardless if the game gives them the option to maximize for the other 2. 

It would make a huge difference. As I stated now twice that even if you built around only 1 or two abilities, you wouldn't be gimped if you changed your mind and decided to rebuild towards others. For instance, lets say you 3 forma your frame and get rid of 2 of your ability slots. But you decide you don't like it and want to use 3 of your abilities, well now you have to re-forma it again to get your ability slot back. That is just and endless cycle of farming or buying forma and re-leveling over and over again. You shouldn't have to do this. You should be able to simply switch out your cards that would have boosted said skills and go on with it. Lets face it, besides tanking aspects the cards most switched out would be Fleeting, Narrow Minded, Blind Rage, Focus, and Continuity. Determining whether you want duration or strength in your powers. But I should be allowed to flip these cards around without re-leveling my whole frame. Its no different then a gear swap in an MMO from raid to raid. 

 

With this then.. No ability cards and frames are only allowed 6 mod slots. Sound fair?

I thought about this but in the end what about people whos current build only have 1 ability card and used a forma on the other 3 slots. There are LOTS of builds like that and those people would be pissed. I say keep the 8 slots and just let it open up a whole new world for build crafting to be able to add 1 more card. Your energy loadout would also be increased by about 5 or so depending on the loadout cost. So maybe some of those cards we don't ever use in builds could be viable such as an element resist, Maglev, Quick thinking, Heavy Frame, Thieves Wit. As of now in most frames we almost must always include some variation of Streamline, Flow, Fleeting Expertise, blah blah blah. Would be nice to be able to maximize our energy and duration or strength and still be able to include some of these minor cards that have cool little effects.

[Paradoxbomb]

Remove ability cards and make abilities innate, and give Warframes 8 slots instead of 10 so they're on part with weapon mod slots. I agree with LordofTibera that having them as mod cards is practically a punishment to players who choose to keep all the abilities equipped and use their frame to their full potential instead of building around their Ult/Nuke skill. If abilities didn't require mod slots and were always available to the player, I imagine players would be more inclined to actually use some of the abilities that are deemed "a waste of space".

[Makya]

I imagine players would be more inclined to actually use some of the abilities that are deemed "a waste of space".

Why? Those abilities would be no longer a waste of space, just now a waste of energy.

[Paradoxbomb]

Why? Those abilities would be no longer a waste of space, just now a waste of energy.

 

They may still be situational, but they'll at least be there. ie) You're playing Excalibur and you come up to a raised platform. If you have enough energy and you already have Superjump by default, you may as well save yourself a few seconds and use it (unless you're REALLY trying to conserve energy, but that's why Streamline exists). The point is you at least have it instead of normally ditching it entirely due to how situational it can be.

Edited January 28, 2014 by Paradoxbomb

[Valiant]

Yeah removal of ability cards wouldn't be a bad idea (provided all the spare cards you had turned into cores and rare cores too). Then you can have it so that when you level up your abilities also increase in strength.

Edited January 28, 2014 by Naith

[Fo0otsteps]

Have to agree with you OP. skills like Freeze and rhino dash might be illogical to equip when you can polarize it for a far superior mod, but i would definitely use it if it is there by default. also lore states that tenons master their suits so it would be really stupid if they can learn to quadruple their shield but forget how to use a power specific for them. 

+1 although  mods in general need a rework

[ttv_Typical_Tilly]

Remove ability cards and make abilities innate, and give Warframes 8 slots instead of 10 so they're on part with weapon mod slots. I agree with LordofTibera that having them as mod cards is practically a punishment to players who choose to keep all the abilities equipped and use their frame to their full potential instead of building around their Ult/Nuke skill. If abilities didn't require mod slots and were always available to the player, I imagine players would be more inclined to actually use some of the abilities that are deemed "a waste of space".

Punishment is a good word for it. I don't use bounce at all on my Vauban, but if I wanted to help the whole team skip up to a platform and I'm running Fleeting and streamline then why not to make it actually useful? But to keep it in my build when I could have another mod in high level content is silly. Same with Tesla. In high level content, tesla's damage is just not enough even if you throw down 10-15 because they have to charge up and don't continuously shock. But If I had them on the ready whether I was built for them or not I could in fact use them on low level mobs or weaker ones or even use them against Corpus to bring down shields.

 

Why? Those abilities would be no longer a waste of space, just now a waste of energy.

With streamline and flow alone they cost next to nothing in energy. But I would like to be able to make that call if a convenience is worth the energy. Not DE or my build.

 

They may still be situational, but they'll at least be there. ie) You're playing Excalibur and you come up to a raised platform. If you have enough energy and you already have Superjump by default, you may as well save yourself a few seconds and use it (unless you're REALLY trying to conserve energy, but that's why Streamline exists). The point is you at least have it instead of normally ditching it entirely due to how situational it can be.

EXACTLY!

 

Yeah removal of ability cards wouldn't be a bad idea (provided all the spare cards you had turned into cores and rare cores too). Then you can have it so that when you level up your abilities also increase in strength.

Yes like they did when they changed it up last time. They gave us credits for our cores. And agreed on the abilities just scaling in 3 stages every 10 levels.

[(PSN)i_illusion]

I completely disagree with this; it would require a complete overhaul of the system completely changing the game. You know someone suggested this idea with a whole concept in the Warframe Concepts forum, his whole basis revolved around a skill tree saying it would allow us to use lesser used mods for our mod slots, and more customizable freedom in the skill tree. Now the reason why this wouldn't work is that the Skill Tree would limit us even more in my opinion, and that would require even more work for the DE to make for each Warframe.

Not only that, I found the idea to be missing a completely simple idea. Why not simply make all the useless garbage mods no one uses and make them into Secondary Mods? Like have 4 or 8 secondary mod slots seperate from regular mod slots? Most of those useless mods like increase sliding, or decrease energy used for wall running aren't game breaking if they were thrown ontop of the mods we normally have on. So wouldn't this be a better idea than a complete overhaul that was going for the same idea?

I do agree though that Warframe abilities shouldn't require mods and should be a given on the Warframes (perhaps their power is determined by your Warframe current level? They max out to 3, so every 10 levels would be the equilvant to 1 level of a mod?)

 

I mean there are so many ideas to go around, I think it would be silly to get rid of the card system because some people (like me) actually play this game because they enjoy that system. Don't fix what isn't broken, but you can always improve on what isn't working.

[ttv_Typical_Tilly]

I completely disagree with this; it would require a complete overhaul of the system completely changing the game. You know someone suggested this idea with a whole concept in the Warframe Concepts forum, his whole basis revolved around a skill tree saying it would allow us to use lesser used mods for our mod slots, and more customizable freedom in the skill tree. Now the reason why this wouldn't work is that the Skill Tree would limit us even more in my opinion, and that would require even more work for the DE to make for each Warframe.

Not only that, I found the idea to be missing a completely simple idea. Why not simply make all the useless garbage mods no one uses and make them into Secondary Mods? Like have 4 or 8 secondary mod slots seperate from regular mod slots? Most of those useless mods like increase sliding, or decrease energy used for wall running aren't game breaking if they were thrown ontop of the mods we normally have on. So wouldn't this be a better idea than a complete overhaul that was going for the same idea?

I do agree though that Warframe abilities shouldn't require mods and should be a given on the Warframes (perhaps their power is determined by your Warframe current level? They max out to 3, so every 10 levels would be the equilvant to 1 level of a mod?)

 

I mean there are so many ideas to go around, I think it would be silly to get rid of the card system because some people (like me) actually play this game because they enjoy that system. Don't fix what isn't broken, but you can always improve on what isn't working.

I don't say this to offend you but you haven't been around long. In the last year this game has been completely overhauled at least 3 times to improve. It actually used to have skill trees, no mod cards, and all your skills available from level 1 except your ultimate. Unless you put a catalyst in. Nobody on this thread said anything about giving up the card system. Just the ability cards to make room for some of the minor cards.  I would encourage you to find some closed beta gameplay.

[ttv_Typical_Tilly]

I completely disagree with this; it would require a complete overhaul of the system completely changing the game. You know someone suggested this idea with a whole concept in the Warframe Concepts forum, his whole basis revolved around a skill tree saying it would allow us to use lesser used mods for our mod slots, and more customizable freedom in the skill tree. Now the reason why this wouldn't work is that the Skill Tree would limit us even more in my opinion, and that would require even more work for the DE to make for each Warframe.

Not only that, I found the idea to be missing a completely simple idea. Why not simply make all the useless garbage mods no one uses and make them into Secondary Mods? Like have 4 or 8 secondary mod slots seperate from regular mod slots? Most of those useless mods like increase sliding, or decrease energy used for wall running aren't game breaking if they were thrown ontop of the mods we normally have on. So wouldn't this be a better idea than a complete overhaul that was going for the same idea?

I do agree though that Warframe abilities shouldn't require mods and should be a given on the Warframes (perhaps their power is determined by your Warframe current level? They max out to 3, so every 10 levels would be the equilvant to 1 level of a mod?)

 

I mean there are so many ideas to go around, I think it would be silly to get rid of the card system because some people (like me) actually play this game because they enjoy that system. Don't fix what isn't broken, but you can always improve on what isn't working.

One other other thing. You aren't playing this game because you enjoy slotting ability cards. Sorry but nobody is going to believe that is the entire reason you play the game. And the system is in fact broken and needs to be fixed.

[Archwizard]

The devs keep going back to "well we want to add interchangeable abilities eventually", which sounds fine and dandy when you hear it. It gives them a reason to keep mod cards in, so you can say "I like this but not this".

Until they mention "If we were ever to make opposite-sex versions of existing Warframes, they'd have completely different abilities."

 

So really the devs need to make a choice: Either make all abilities innately bound to each frame and give us some extra blank slots, or get cracking on those interchangeable abilities (which I'm sure would be the default skills of the imaginary Rule 63 version).

 

The problem with the former, though, is if they go the route of every combat-based game ever and make it a case of leveling up the character to unlock their innate powers. I mean it makes sense, your character is amnesiac and has been in stasis for a while, they need some time to pick up their old skills; walk before you crawl, Fireball before you World on Fire.

But consider for a moment, picking your Frost out of the Foundry for the first time (or Formaing him for the third), being really excited to level him up for end game. Today, you'd throw on Rejuvenation and Snow Globe, maybe a few extras, and be on your way to a Mobile Defense for easy levels.

Any other game? You start with Freeze, head back to Mercury, and grind back up the same way you've done a half-dozen times before. Even with auras, it'll take you a good 2-10 levels to gain your next skill; you'd be half-done leveling by the time you got Snow Globe. 

 

Now granted, this is just one way they could do it (most likely way or no); I'm sure whether or not I leave it open-ended someone will pipe in with a "yeah, but they could do this instead". I'm just saying, the potential for this solution is precisely why I weary of "innate abilities" threads.

 

On the other hand, no objection to them picking up the pace and giving alternate abilities so we have a reason to keep slotting the ones we have- as long as they're fairly simple to get, since we're given the base abilities as soon as we receive the frame. (Perhaps add the alternate skills to the drop tables of bosses that supply the frame, and take non-ability mods out of those tables completely? Vauban, Volt and Banshee's notwithstanding, though they could easily be smuggled onto other loot tables.)

Edited January 29, 2014 by Archwizard

[tris1]

I agree that the abilities should be innate to the frame as 4 skills and basically with my frost I only use 1 maybe 2 skills its just a waste of skills I could understand if they werent inate if there was more than 4 skills to a frame like de did say at one point as you would swap them out but this isnt the case we only have 4 skills and most people dont use all of them but if they were innate people could and would use them even if not build around all the skills

[Valiant]

To be honest they could keep this system suggested but STILL bring in interchangeable skills. Nothing stopping them from having both. I wouldn't see how having a general interchangeable skill take up a mod slot would be a problem or make no sense. It is something different to the frame after all so naturally it should be an actual mod because it is a modification.

Edited January 29, 2014 by Naith

[tris1]

To be honest they could keep this system suggested but STILL bring in interchangeable skills. Nothing stopping them from having both. I wouldn't see how having a general interchangeable skill take up a mod slot would be a problem or make no sense. It is something different to the frame after all so naturally it should be an actual mod because it is a modification.

Yes I agree its a modification however if there not going to add new alternative skills for frames I dont see there point of them being mods as if there is only ever going to be 4 for each frame there limiting what the frame makes them different from the others

[lucio1019]

Remove the ability card and keep mod slots at 8?

 

So, what about you just ask for 12 mod slots instead of 10?

[tris1]

Remove the ability card and keep mod slots at 8?

 

So, what about you just ask for 12 mod slots instead of 10?

Becuase people would still build round there one skill they want but with more space they can put more duratuion on two outway fleeting expertise just an example

[(PSN)i_illusion]

I don't say this to offend you but you haven't been around long. In the last year this game has been completely overhauled at least 3 times to improve. It actually used to have skill trees, no mod cards, and all your skills available from level 1 except your ultimate. Unless you put a catalyst in. Nobody on this thread said anything about giving up the card system. Just the ability cards to make room for some of the minor cards.  I would encourage you to find some closed beta gameplay.

 

I've read through the Wikia, I heard from many older members. Yes I do know the system was completely revamped many times before. (So now your questioning my knowledge, because I'm assuming you payed attention to the PS4 next to my name.) But I brought that conversation up to point out that the way we have it now gives us more customization. If DE did remove Ability Mod Cards, they might simply end up removing those 4 mod slots as well, and if they don't, they have to judge whether or not those extra 4 ability slots would break the game or not.

I did say that they should make abilities should be innate to that Warframe, but the better question is if by doing so are we giving up freedom of some of our customization in the sake of balance? Or are we going to have even more powerful Warframes because of the editional slots?

Just because I think they should, doesn't mean it's a good idea. A lot of people like how things are now, while others want something similar to other games completely revamping something over a small idea that had an easier fix/tweak.

 

 

One other other thing. You aren't playing this game because you enjoy slotting ability cards. Sorry but nobody is going to believe that is the entire reason you play the game. And the system is in fact broken and needs to be fixed.

I never stated that it was the only reason I enjoyed playing this game, I said that I play this game because I like the system as it is. :/ Thanks for adding your own imaginary text to my post. :/

[ttv_Typical_Tilly]

The devs keep going back to "well we want to add interchangeable abilities eventually", which sounds fine and dandy when you hear it. It gives them a reason to keep mod cards in, so you can say "I like this but not this".

Until they mention "If we were ever to make opposite-sex versions of existing Warframes, they'd have completely different abilities."

 

So really the devs need to make a choice: Either make all abilities innately bound to each frame and give us some extra blank slots, or get cracking on those interchangeable abilities (which I'm sure would be the default skills of the imaginary Rule 63 version).

 

The problem with the former, though, is if they go the route of every combat-based game ever and make it a case of leveling up the character to unlock their innate powers. I mean it makes sense, your character is amnesiac and has been in stasis for a while, they need some time to pick up their old skills; walk before you crawl, Fireball before you World on Fire.

But consider for a moment, picking your Frost out of the Foundry for the first time (or Formaing him for the third), being really excited to level him up for end game. Today, you'd throw on Rejuvenation and Snow Globe, maybe a few extras, and be on your way to a Mobile Defense for easy levels.

Any other game? You start with Freeze, head back to Mercury, and grind back up the same way you've done a half-dozen times before. Even with auras, it'll take you a good 2-10 levels to gain your next skill; you'd be half-done leveling by the time you got Snow Globe. 

 

Now granted, this is just one way they could do it (most likely way or no); I'm sure whether or not I leave it open-ended someone will pipe in with a "yeah, but they could do this instead". I'm just saying, the potential for this solution is precisely why I weary of "innate abilities" threads.

 

On the other hand, no objection to them picking up the pace and giving alternate abilities so we have a reason to keep slotting the ones we have- as long as they're fairly simple to get, since we're given the base abilities as soon as we receive the frame. (Perhaps add the alternate skills to the drop tables of bosses that supply the frame, and take non-ability mods out of those tables completely? Vauban, Volt and Banshee's notwithstanding, though they could easily be smuggled onto other loot tables.)

As it sits you can level a frame on Mercury in 2 survival sessions because of immediate access to your Ulti spam.  So I honestly don't think it would be a bad idea to force you to re-level the frame without all your abilities. This would make Forma not such a joke. It would be something like prestige in Call of Duty. You have to really think to yourself, "do I really want to re-level this?" In its current state Forma is a joke because you are right back to level 30 in less than 2 hours. I completely agree with them needing to make a decision. Thank you for your reply.

 

To be honest they could keep this system suggested but STILL bring in interchangeable skills. Nothing stopping them from having both. I wouldn't see how having a general interchangeable skill take up a mod slot would be a problem or make no sense. It is something different to the frame after all so naturally it should be an actual mod because it is a modification.

I agree with this. There could be another item in the customization tab to just choose which 4 skills you use without it being a mod slot. But I would expand on this further and say that there should be alternative skill per 1,2,3,4 slot. So if they made different ultimates you couldn't just equip 2 ultimate abilities. You would have to pick 1 item for your Ultimate slot, 1 item for your 3 slot ect....

 

I've read through the Wikia, I heard from many older members. Yes I do know the system was completely revamped many times before. (So now your questioning my knowledge, because I'm assuming you payed attention to the PS4 next to my name.) But I brought that conversation up to point out that the way we have it now gives us more customization. If DE did remove Ability Mod Cards, they might simply end up removing those 4 mod slots as well, and if they don't, they have to judge whether or not those extra 4 ability slots would break the game or not.

I did say that they should make abilities should be innate to that Warframe, but the better question is if by doing so are we giving up freedom of some of our customization in the sake of balance? Or are we going to have even more powerful Warframes because of the editional slots?

Just because I think they should, doesn't mean it's a good idea. A lot of people like how things are now, while others want something similar to other games completely revamping something over a small idea that had an easier fix/tweak.

 

 

I never stated that it was the only reason I enjoyed playing this game, I said that I play this game because I like the system as it is. :/ Thanks for adding your own imaginary text to my post. :/

I said nothing about your knowledge. I simply said that you stated it would require a revamp of the game. But it has been revamped so many times that it wouldn't be so bad until we see the changes. In fact. Originally when mods were introduced the games progression was 100% RNG and the community hated it and they lost a lot of players including myself until they changed it. But once again they listened to the community as they usually do and fixed it for us. So even if up front a lot of people didn't like it. It might grow on them. Just like when we lost skill trees. We were pissed at first and then later realized it was actually better. Also making the ability slots innate would give MORE customization. So you contradict yourself on that one.