List Of Interesting (And Often Basic) Mechanics De Lacks

[NikolaiLev]

There are many ways to make a weapon function.  From Unreal Tournament to your everyday shooter, there's something Warframe lacks seriously in: the function of weapons.  This is something shooters have (half-heartedly or not) tried to innovate upon for decades.  This is a list of mechanics Warframe lacks that either have been proven to work well, or have an interesting potential for making a weapon more than just a gun.

 

If you're the type of gamer with a conservative mindset ("Any form of change is bad!") or are simply content with the current state of the game (no matter how bad it is), then this thread is not for you.  The thread is meant to implicitly be a suggestion for wide, sweeping improvements to weapon variety; however, it's also not necessarily a "list of suggestions."  Some of these might not fit Warframe.

 

 

Unique reload mechanics:

 

-Having multiple magazines; each one would be relatively quick to reload (.8s or so).  This had the potential to show up with the Tetra, which could have been reloaded four times from empty.

 

-Shotguns and revolvers having per-round, interruptable reloading.  This is an extremely basic and common mechanic that never found its way into Warframe.

 

-Active reloading.  Yet another common mechanic, especially in third person shooters; this was left out for some unknowable reason; it would serve to make the game more skill-based and active, complementing the already fast-paced game.

 

Ammo Management

 

-Magazine management; each magazine being a discrete object rather than having infinite magazines with an "ammo pool."  Not necessarily needed in Warframe due to its fast-paced nature, but it's still not a bad mechanic simply because it promotes choice in ammo management, making gameplay a little deeper.

 

-Magazineless weapons.  This is, to a degree, present in the form of bows, but these may as well be 1 round magazine-fed weapons for gameplay purposes, much like the Vectis.  There's no unreloadable automatic/continuous weapons.

 

-Ammo types.  While you can change your damage types for the duration of the mission, there's no swapping to a different ammo type mid-game.  This could've been handy for different element payloads, as well as Thunderbolt arrows for bows.

 

Shooting and weapon types

 

-Alt-fire.  This is present in the form of the Penta, but is tragically clunky (as it can still aim if no grenades are out).  Beyond that, alt-fire is missing from the game.

 

-Combined weapons.  Things like assault rifles with underslung grenade launchers or shotguns.  Given Warframe's futuristic setting, other interesting concepts are equally possible.  See: Painkiller.  (Seriously, why doesn't Warframe have a weapon that shoots shurikens and lightning?)

 

-Logarithmic recoil and accuracy loss.  This one really deserves a thread of its own.  Firing automatic weapons in a burst should allow for increased accuracy at the cost of DPS, but weapons have a flat accuracy and recoil value that pops in the moment you start shooting.  This is especially egregious with weapons like the Supra, where the first shot can completely whiff away from the crosshair.

 

-Exotic weapons: these are largely missing from the game, coming only in the form of a rocket launcher, a grenade launcher, a flame thrower, and a couple beam weapons.  Nothing with interesting projectile types.  No weapons that fire projectiles that move in a sine wave, no projectiles that have a large hitbox (besides the flamethrower, which just has a cone AoE), no projectiles that leave the ground burning or so.

 

-Select fire.  Also a basic mechanic, being able to select trigger type allows for greater weapon variety with the opportunity to give certain weapons more versatility.

 

Melee: (yes, I know, melee 2.0 is coming.)

 

-Hafting.  Weapons have a hitbox that deals less damage to enemies; think of the pole underneath the Orthos.  Because Warframe lacks precise controls and is generally fast-paced, this wouldn't work terribly well.

 

-Grappling.  The ability to grab onto enemies and lock them down or toss them.  Also might not work due to the horde-mode nature of Warframe.  But that's a problem in itself and so this would fit if combat could take place on a scale with fewer, but stronger enemies.

 

-Bayonets.  About as un-ninjalike as a giant axe (in other words, still easily acceptable), bayonets are sorely missing from the game.  This has potential to show up after melee 2.0 as a mod, or a weapon that has one, which would replace the quick melee attack (though I'd far prefer proper rifle and bayonet melee combat, since it's a respectable martial art in its own right, similar to spear use).

 

-Timed Parrying: Hopefully, this will make it into melee 2.0, but there's no guarantee.  This would allow you to, say, counter-attack a melee attack by parrying right as you're hit, or even deflect/dodge an incoming rocket off-course with a well-timed parry.

 

Gear:

 

-Grenades.  Yes, I've heard about how DE refuses to have these in.  But why?  Consumable, player-used throwing weapons had immense potential, from basic fragmentation grenades, to caltrop grenades and javelins (which are too powerful and big to be a secondary weapon).  A "tertiary" weapon slot would have been a great spot for things like these.

 

-Mines.  Similar to above, fitting into the same slot but serving a different purpose.  Other trap-like items would be applicable as well.

 

Warframe Ability Mechanics:

 

-Toggled abilities.  Many abilities would benefit from being changed to this; things like Invisibility or Link would make far more sense as toggled abilities.  These can have initial activation costs, as well as upkeeps that ramp up.

 

-Abilities that reserve energy.  Common in Diablo-likes, these abilities reserve energy as or as part of their costs.

 

-% of energy costs.  This would be a boon in dealing with frames that can spam excessively due to high amounts of energy, though one could argue that the existence of Flow and such are the source issue.

 

Enemies/Entities:

 

-Civilians/bystanders.  Especially useful in stealth missions (which, sadly, we have none of.)

 

-Commander type enemies that improve tactical of nearby enemies, and cause confusion/panic when killed.

 

-Enemies that become more dangerous the more hurt they are (or vice versa).  Slightly present in the form of the Fusion Moa and Lech Kril, though these states are binary.

 

-Enemies harmful to kill.  Runners used to be these if dealt with in an inappropriate manner, but have since become neutered to harmlessness.

 

-"Special" enemies.  Think enemies like the Tank in L4D, or the Cloaker in Payday 2.  Mini-boss enemies that can be extremely threatening and must be dealt with.  The stalker is an example of this, but is based on random chance.

 

Game modes and levels:

 

-Decent PvP.  This isn't mutually exclusive to a PvE-focused game, and could include various things like capture-the-flag or point-capture style modes.

 

-Persistent warring; allowing factions (and Tenno) to actually move factions about on the star chart.

 

-Large-scale, multi-objective missions.  Think most missions from Payday 2; there are several objectives to achieve and many variables to consider, alongside many ways to get the job done.

 

-Non-linear procedural generation.  Existence of other games with this (think: Any Roguelike) means its absence in Warframe has no excuse.  Hopefully more innovative programmers will be hired in the future.

 

This thread is by no means exhaustive.  Feel free to post appropriate mechanics, including things you wish Warframe had.

Edited February 3, 2014 by NikolaiLev

[Neutralred]

 

-Grenades.  Yes, I've heard about how DE refuses to have these in.  But why?  Consumable, player-used throwing weapons had immense potential, from basic fragmentation grenades, to caltrop grenades and javelins (which are too powerful and big to be a secondary weapon).  A "tertiary" weapon slot would have been a great spot for things like these.

 

-Mines.  Similar to above, fitting into the same slot but serving a different purpose.  Other trap-like items would be applicable as well.

Grenades would trivialise enemy cover, and mines might trivialise Defense, but... well... these tactical options were one of the biggest thing I missed compared to other modern shooters. Hell, use of bombs and other explosives are very traditional-ninja-style.

[koopagon]

ima just do quick replies to these to save space but....

 

reloads:

1:would be neat

2: makes reloads for these weapons even more painfully slow in some cases

3: we kinda have something like this, weapons only actually take 3/4ths the total time to refill the magazine you just need to do an action to fire again.

 

ammo:

1 would be kinda annoying but neat

2 do space ninjas need belt fed chainguns?

3 kinda disrupts the idea that DE might have weapon balance and is kinda unneeded at this stage due to weapon mods

 

shooting and weapon types:

1 look at the control scheme and tell me where an alt fire would be first, then tell me how PS4 players would be able to put it.

2 see above

3 maybe yes maybe no, would make the game more like a FPS but then again this isnt a FPS

4 give them time, some may be in the works

 

melee:

1 would likely make some weapons more annoying to use

2 a neat idea but i see the main issue with it is lack of a place to put the buttons for this

3 control issues abound.

4 would be nice

 

gear:

1 the game had grenades at one point in the development but the grenades eventually morphed into the crazy powers each different frame now abuses on a daily basis. adding grenades back in is kind of meaningless when they cheapen the need for our frame's powers

[NikolaiLev]

 

2 do space ninjas need belt fed chainguns?

3 kinda disrupts the idea that DE might have weapon balance and is kinda unneeded at this stage due to weapon mods

 

2: See: Gorgon and Supra.  Scindo and Furax are similar examples that nullify this question.

 

3: DE?  Weapon balance?  xD

[HillsAndTheSea]

have you even heard of vauban? lmfao

[koopagon]

2: See: Gorgon and Supra.  Scindo and Furax are similar examples that nullify this question.

 

3: DE?  Weapon balance?  xD

gorgon and supra are magazine fed LMGs effectively. still arent belt fed chainguns.

 

and i think somewhere in DE's designer's heads they think they're doing balance but are a bit too occupied to really do anything about older things

 

also alot of your suggestions here seem to hinge on the ability to expand the number of controls a player needs to be able to function and quite frankly this is starting to sound alot like my time playing resident evil 6 after playing resident evil revelations. too many possible things you can do and an over reliance on just adding in more and more mechanics. their design mantra should be K.I.S.S: Keep It Simple, Stupid.

 

but towards the AI stuff you added in after my inital reply.. i think/hope they are actually working on something like this. it would be nice for the AI to have some more beef under it's hood.

 

pvp... really i remember hearing them say it wasnt even in their plans for the game but public outcry for it made them add it. i dont think they have any plans anytime soon to expand on it further than it currently is.

 

the rest of the stuff you bring up abotu levels im sure they have at least ideas about wanting to implement.

[Mayflower]

1) Water for swimming or underwater diving, but current levels don't really work well for including water in such quantities for any reason (the Earth event missions could've had it).

 

2) Missions with multiple goals right from the start (e.g. steal data and destroy the reactor).

 

3) Missions where the conditions change during the mission. Such as the heat regulation getting fixed or breaking, or a ship coming under attack (the explosions and things breaking stuff and possibly boarding parties from another faction appearing, we have the sudden multi-faction missions but those are unexplained every time except for events or the ops where it's a constant rather than event).

 

-Enemies harmful to kill.  Runners used to be these if dealt with in an inappropriate manner, but have since become neutered to harmlessness.

Toxic ancients used to be that, but they got nerfed and are now irrelevant.

 

 

have you even heard of vauban? lmfao

Vauban doesn't have mines, he has deployable turrets. Only thing close to the other stuff is the vortex which is implosion grenade, but that's massive CC than just aoe damage.

[Kracken]

reading NikolaiLew op my first troth where that you newer reads de posts or newer watched livestreams - it was pointed on several occasion that some thing you posted are being in development(mission types, unique realodings etc ) or will newer happen (grenades, pvp outside conclave).

 

site note - the game is still evolving- just give it time if you are patient enouth

Edited February 3, 2014 by Cracken

[Phantasmo]

Yes to all.

Warframe lacks so many features and has so many design flaws that I can't explain why is it enjoying any degree of success.

[Hayzemet]

Up until gear, maybe its cool, from gear on quite useless

 

tbh everything is quite irrelevant, there are other things with higher priority to be implemented ...

Edited February 3, 2014 by Hayzemet

[Koloricsi]

reading NikolaiLew op my first troth where that you newer reads de posts or newer watched livestreams - it was pointed on several occasion that some thing you posted are being in development(mission types, unique realodings etc ) or will newer happen (grenades, pvp outside conclave).

 

site note - the game is still evolving- just give it time if you are patient enouth

Ah...i see then let's insert Blizzard's "Soon" here.

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I pretty much agree with everything, +1, hope DE finally starts to spice things up cuz i've already lost my will to play this, completely burnt out, even one mission is an agony, let alone doing 5 (down to 100k from 1 mil cuz i just cant play it even for a little while)

[MaraudingZebra]

Two things I've always wanted in Warframe: Active reload and the ability to recover as you're falling after being knocked over by a bombard, heavy gunner, etc. Like a split second right before you hit the ground, press space and recover from the fall. That would be nice.

[HillsAndTheSea]

Vauban doesn't have mines, he has deployable turrets. Only thing close to the other stuff is the vortex which is implosion grenade, but that's massive CC than just aoe damage.

 

 

i dont get how "grenades and other traps" doesnt translate to "vauban"

 

"mines" simply translates to "nova"

Edited February 3, 2014 by HillsAndTheSea

[NikolaiLev]

Yes to all.

Warframe lacks so many features and has so many design flaws that I can't explain why is it enjoying any degree of success.

 

Because it's a FTP game, and FTP games are goldmines.  Because they're free, they get a huge audience to try it, and because there's a lot of grind, most people are content to perform a repetitive task so long as they're "rewarded."  It's called operant conditioning.  Warframe is more of a psychology exercise than a game.

[Inez]

Warframe is more of a psychology exercise than a game.

You saw that Extra Credits video too! Man, aren't we both smart now that we saw an internet video!

As it turns out, most of life and society is based on the same principle. So I could say that "Life is more of a psychology exercise than a game." But that would just seem silly.

And as it turns out, File Transport Protocol games aren't goldmines, the vast majority lose money. If you really believed your statement you'd be developing/investing in F2P games.

But yeah, the Man is out to steal our money and stuff by using advanced psychological tricks. Preach it, brother.

I upvoted your original post, though Your games ideas are awesome. In particular "Logarithmic recoil and accuracy loss", "Timed Parrying" and Bayonets.

An Ogris with big evil-looking serrated bayonet would be lots o fun.

Hopefully DE was already considering/working on some of these.

[Amazerath]

-Grenades.  Yes, I've heard about how DE refuses to have these in.  But why?  Consumable, player-used throwing weapons had immense potential, from basic fragmentation grenades, to caltrop grenades and javelins (which are too powerful and big to be a secondary weapon).  A "tertiary" weapon slot would have been a great spot for things like these.

 

DE has already answered that one. The game originally had grenades but they were removed because they overlap with warframe powers.

[NikolaiLev]

DE has already answered that one. The game originally had grenades but they were removed because they overlap with warframe powers.

 

You don't like to read, do you?

 

Grenades and other throwing weapons really don't overlap with Warframe powers, at least no more than things like the Penta and Ogris do.  There are things like Team Health Restore despite abilities such as Oberon's Renewal.  There's overlap, and that's fine.

 

Besides, there aren't any warframes that have a cheap single target ability, like a javelin toss.

[Phantasmo]

Grenades as a one use consumable would be a good idea. I can imagine stocking up before a long survival run, that would be cool.

[Amazerath]

You don't like to read, do you?

 

Grenades and other throwing weapons really don't overlap with Warframe powers, at least no more than things like the Penta and Ogris do.  There are things like Team Health Restore despite abilities such as Oberon's Renewal.  There's overlap, and that's fine.

 

Besides, there aren't any warframes that have a cheap single target ability, like a javelin toss.

 

Yes, I did read what you wrote about grenades. How about you Nikolai? Did you really read what I wrote? I said "DE has already answered that one", which implies the answer I posted is not my own answer. It is DE's answer to another person who had already asked the same question you did on one of the livestreams, a while ago.

 

If you don't like their answer, that is fine. You don't have to like it. You have the right to disagree and dislike any answer they give you. However, I would like to ask you not to direct your anger at me as I am not the one responsible for it.

 

Now, as I am as much entitled to post my opinion in here as you are, I shall do so now. I personally do not think consumables add much to this game, even the current ones. As you have wisely pointed out, some of the current consumables already overlap with powers. So I would ask: why do we need consumables at all? Why would I want to use team restore if I can simply use my Renewal ability which heals in a much more efficient way? Likewise, why would I want to throw a grenade if I can simply fire my Ogris at a group of enemies, or if I can use one of the many room-sweeper powers we have available (Crush, Pull, Miasma, Molecular Prime, Stomp, etc)?

 

It seems to me that it would end up being something that would look cool but that at the same time would be largely ignored. This already happens with the consumables we already have. Even teams with no support warframes care very little about Team Restore. Most people simply wait until they get killed and then wait for a fellow tenno to revive them, recovering all of their health in just a few moments.