The Eviscerators Megathread

[Lord.Finster]

I can get behind a spawnrate reduction. They should be as rare as Scorches and Ballistas. +1

[ThePresident777]

Last few days of playing, earth and phobos and pluto alerts siding with the corpus, I am more convinced than ever that warframe players need to learn how to move and shoot at the same time.

 

I agree and the game mechanics do not help.  Movement and shooting interrupt each other.  That runs totally counter to Fast and Fluid Movement.  Interrupted movement is not fluid movement.  Warframe has conflicted game mechanics.

[ThePresident777]

This problem isn't solely created by the lack of needed mods. It's only compounded by it.

 

200 direct health damage on a lower level planet?

 

How will any mod or mods ranked 2-4 times save a level 10-15 warframe from that? Mind you, that's ONE hit. Given the fire rate I've seen on Eviserators you could get hit 4 or 5 times before you turn around if one gets the drop on you. That's a potential 1000 direct damage.

 

Well isn't that what team mates are for?

 

Sure, if there's only one Eviserator your team can cover whoever picks you up, but chances are there's another one or two in the room behind cover waiting to spring. Mind you they'd probably only hit once or twice each, but you can see how that can end.

 

Earth has night missions to boot. I don't know if mobs key off flashlights, but the sure don't carry them.

And guess who's styling in dark green armor?

 

We didn't have this problem when people were able to get a good basic set of mods quickly.  And you shouldn't expect new players to solo the second planet.  You should expect successful solos from better equipped and more experienced accounts.

Edited February 12, 2014 by ThePresident777

[Nagisawa]

Napalms and bombards are even more deadly.  Should they get nerfed too?

Bombards are just bullet sponges.  Napalm blasts are or at least were scary because their explosive flames went through 'cover' and was bigger than the explosive blast.

 

Eviscerators as mentioned run and gun, and are worse than shotguns, because they don't ever have to aim.  The moment they 'know' you're in the room, a barrage of blades are bouncing everywhere, and you're bleeding.  They could be across the room, behind cover with no actual line of sight, and they will be launching all the blades.  And add a second one?  Often, you're done.

Edited February 12, 2014 by Nagisawa

[Calayne]

Last few days of playing, earth and phobos and pluto alerts siding with the corpus, I am more convinced than ever that warframe players need to learn how to move and shoot at the same time.

 

I actually do that very often, and jumping and gunning is one of my favourite things to do. But the thing about Warframe is that you can slide, flip, shoot everyone in the air, zorencopter and roll, but still get shot pretty often. Their aim is simply too impeccable. It is too precise, and they know how to lead you too well. The only way to avoid it is to perform zig-zag sprints, and in that case, you cannot shoot.

 

Trust me, I tried that in the game. It is much safer to hide in a corner most times, picking off targets one by one as they finish their bursts. The only time you should ever move is from cover-to-cover when you are severely out-gunned. Trying to out-manoeuvre gunshots is a practice in futility. No matter how fast you move, they'll always have a bead on you, even through walls. Moment you pop outta the corner, as long as they're in "Tenno skoom!!" mode, they're gonna shoot your Orokin Cells right outta your pants.

 

Try it. The above loadout is what I use. Go to Sabotage, run it a few times with an antitoxin. 

 

We didn't have this problem when people were able to get a good basic set of mods quickly.  And you shouldn't expect new players to solo the second planet.  You should expect successful solos from better equipped and more experienced accounts.

 

 

While I understand a good set of mods is crucial, there are a few things you have to keep in mind: 

 

1.) I hate playing Online. This means that somewhere in the world are people who like not to lag out, or just prefer solo play. It is quite unhelpful to force people to play with a group, considering that you could solo just fine until you hit this planet. And after that, you can solo just fine again. Consensus? AWWWWWWWKWAAAAAAARD. 

 

2.) I think the more experienced accounts are the one who should start getting help. Difficulty should scale in such a way that you allow a person to go solo if he wishes, slowly ramping up in difficulty as he slowly grows in power. Then comes a point when it is too difficult to proceed alone, either because the enemies or bosses are too hard, or if you just got tired of going solo and grinding the hundreds of fusion cores you may need to rank your gear up. The way it is now, you go to Earth, get COMPLETELY DESTROYED, and the moment you get to Saturn, it's like: Wow. What was that all about? This is completely easy. And this is my point, besides the other more substantial, massive ones that basically over-arch the entire spectrum of issues.

 

3.) If I was obliterated with a 300/300 Excalibur, what hope do you think newbies have with low level Redirection and Vitality? I come from a time where Rank 30 frames have the same health as when they were Rank 0, and I soloed Pluto with a Loki with none of those (They didn't hand it out automatically until recently) with only a Latron, a basic Serration mod, electric and no Split chamber. No shred, either. And I didn't have Flow, either. So I'd like to think maybe I'm a little better than noobs.

 

This is a huge, huge issue for newbies. Sure, you can go in a group. But why take away the liberty of players to choose whether they need to play in a group or not? Co-op has always been Warframe's thing, but it was never compulsory. THIS is changing that, and in a very bad way, because after this point, it basically becomes unchallenging again. That's the point. There's nothing after this wall of difficulty. 

 

It needs to change. The lack of mods does not prove only your point: It proves mine as well.

 

True, mods will go a long way. But there's only so many you can equip at one time; I simulated my Excalibur to be Rank 14, Braton to be 12, Sicarus to be 12. This is about the minimum rank of getting there. And with how awesome this game is, I won't be surprised if people think so, too, and rush there. And secondly, even with those mods equipped, you are going to need credits and fusion cores in droves just to rank it up enough to fight THESE guys. The eviserators and Elite Lancers will end them. And there's only so much you can do about it. I can see Lokis and Mag maybe-somewhat-kinda having an easier time than Excalibur.

 

But Excalibur is not just the poster boy: He's recommended for beginners. And they're going to die. Alone. And after Earth, he's going to do just fine. Alone. Again.

[Xana_Skullsunder]

I don't have video gear.  But, it's just being careful, using cover, and using range to my advantage instead of running in blind.   Get up close against an opening and show only as much of yourself as you need to aim and shoot.  Take cover while they are shooting then peak out to shoot them.

 

If you play with a team then the enemy has more targets so you get more freedom to be out in the open.  But, when they pick you to be their target, then you have to switch to cover.

 

So... the best way to not die, in what DE themselves has called a "run n gun" game, is to move slowly and cautiously. Is that what you're telling me?

[Nagisawa]

So... the best way to not die, in what DE themselves has called a "run n gun" game, is to move slowly and cautiously. Is that what you're telling me?

Yes.  It's the dreaded 'Stop and Pop' style of game that DE never wanted the game to be.  And yet, that's what they made for us to play.

[Calayne]

The irony is eating me alive.

Kinda like that bleed proc.

[Thaumatos]

Ice leaders aren't even the worst. Imagine if either of those had been a Mag Leader.

 

It also brings up the point that all the players that want to ramp up the difficulty should just dump their mods until they're challenged again.

 

You can force difficulty upon yourself in any game.  That's not the point.  Yeah I can make Super Mario more difficult by messing up and playing wrong on purpose too.  Big whoop.

 

The point is for the game to be innately difficult while being balanced for that difficulty (in other words, not requiring level 80+ infested for a challenge in a game balanced around 35 max).

[Calayne]

The point he's trying to make is that the veterans should see it from the perspective of the newbies on Earth. So for us, with our potatoed Somas and Galatines and Brakks and Detrons, with our maxed Serration, Split Chamber, Hornet Strike and Barrel diffusion, with all our maxed elemental mods and potatoed Rhino, we should man up and see it from their perspective.

The whole point we've been trying to make is that they cannot survive it alone. It is too soon, far too hard for what level they are. They are having their pea shooters pit against a monstrosity that will likely obliterate them in one hit.

How, may I ask, is that fair or balanced?

There is no place here for people who are not willling to lower themselves to the level of the people affected by this. It IS a problem, friend.

We cannot hide behind semantics. Use my build, and go in there. Then tell us whst you feel about it.

Please.

[RustyNaps]

The point he's trying to make is that the veterans should see it from the perspective of the newbies on Earth. So for us, with our potatoed Somas and Galatines and Brakks and Detrons, with our maxed Serration, Split Chamber, Hornet Strike and Barrel diffusion, with all our maxed elemental mods and potatoed Rhino, we should man up and see it from their perspective.

The whole point we've been trying to make is that they cannot survive it alone. It is too soon, far too hard for what level they are. They are having their pea shooters pit against a monstrosity that will likely obliterate them in one hit.

How, may I ask, is that fair or balanced?

There is no place here for people who are not willling to lower themselves to the level of the people affected by this. It IS a problem, friend.

We cannot hide behind semantics. Use my build, and go in there. Then tell us whst you feel about it.

Please.

i took up your challenge my friend and this is my experience.

 

Mercury was easy peasy, until I got to Vor that is. The fight lasted about an hour and I was almost downed about twice. Beat him and went to survival to get serration. Got serration and equipped it. My Mk1 Braton was about rank 11 when i got done with mercury it had unranked serration and a fire elemental on. Now onto Venus.

 

Venus was utterly painful on my rank 12 Excalibur with unranked redirection and vitality. My gun didn't have a lot of power to punch through that shielding so I ran out of ammo constantly, the Lato wasn't much help either. I only failed about 3 missions in the planet until I got to the boss.

 

Jackal was brutal, not only was it hard because of the shields but the boss is primarily alloy armor which your slash based weapons are primarily weak against. I failed the boss fight because of this, so I skipped it and went straight ahead to earth.

 

Earth slapped me in the face and spun me around snapping my neck. The difficulty spiked so high in fact too high, Hellion missile barrages killed me in a burst and a few shots from the miter of an eviscerator bled me to death. even worse I had much more leader varients spawn than normal that I had absolutely NO POWER AGAINST! I ended up given up and joining a group on Xini to rank my Excalibur back up again.

 

DE this is a huge problem and is pushing away new players from the game, please fix this or Warframe wont have a future.

[ThePresident777]

I just soloed eprime with an excalibur 30 using no mods and a mk1-braton using serration 10 and piercing 9.  I killed everything with the mk1-braton.  I got down to 24hp on the last enemy because I was curious what my skana with Pressure Point 9 could do.  I found out, not a whole lot.  So I killed the last enemy with the mk1 braton.

 

I saw one eviserator and he ran away.  He fired a few shots but they all missed because I stayed far away and took cover.  I used cover and range the whole way through except the last guy that I stupidly tried to ginsu.

 

I think you guys are exagerating how bad the situation is.  If the AI was cheap Mass Effect 3 cheating crap then they would have all bum rushed you without fear for their lives and taken all your revives.  But, luckily, the AI has enough common sense to take care of itself.  All it needs is better group think, command and control, strategy, tactics.  But, at least they don't all act like a bunch of infested.

 

So... the best way to not die, in what DE themselves has called a "run n gun" game, is to move slowly and cautiously. Is that what you're telling me?

 

No.   What I'm saying is that If you don't have a team or the gear to face tank, then don't face tank, stop and pop instead.

 

EDIT:  I didn't have Fury 9 on my Skana, just Pressure Point 9.

Edited February 12, 2014 by ThePresident777

[Calayne]

i took up your challenge my friend and this is my experience.

 

Mercury was easy peasy, until I got to Vor that is. The fight lasted about an hour and I was almost downed about twice. Beat him and went to survival to get serration. Got serration and equipped it. My Mk1 Braton was about rank 11 when i got done with mercury it had unranked serration and a fire elemental on. Now onto Venus.

 

Earth slapped me in the face and spun me around snapping my neck. The difficulty spiked so high in fact too high, Hellion missile barrages killed me in a burst and a few shots from the miter of an eviscerator bled me to death. even worse I had much more leader varients spawn than normal that I had absolutely NO POWER AGAINST!

Man, that was brutal. But very commendable, and absolutely hilarious, the way you put it.

Well done on a good effort. I think this, in fact, solidifies another point: the MK-1 should be retired. It's a waste of space, and I don't see why newbies should grind for a basic weapon, when DE clearly wants all weapins to be viable.

Psychedelic Snake made a post regarding recommended loads. I approve of it.

[Calayne]

Also... wasn't E Prime the extermination? That's easy. Go further. I guarantee me lurv yuu lorng tiem. And that was one eviscerator, far far away.

Also, no rank 6 serration. Newbies don't have the time for that. No rank 5 piercing hit, either. I'm sorry, but we can't hide behind our power for this one.

But THIS is what the new ones are facing. Go do more missions on earth and tell me when you start dying. How would be nice as well.

The missions will tell us all what is truth and what are lies. Oh, and bring an antitoxin. Newbies can be pretty curious.

[OblivionNecroninja]

I actually do that very often, and jumping and gunning is one of my favourite things to do. But the thing about Warframe is that you can slide, flip, shoot everyone in the air, zorencopter and roll, but still get shot pretty often. Their aim is simply too impeccable. It is too precise, and they know how to lead you too well. The only way to avoid it is to perform zig-zag sprints, and in that case, you cannot shoot.

 

Trust me, I tried that in the game. It is much safer to hide in a corner most times, picking off targets one by one as they finish their bursts. The only time you should ever move is from cover-to-cover when you are severely out-gunned. Trying to out-manoeuvre gunshots is a practice in futility. No matter how fast you move, they'll always have a bead on you, even through walls. Moment you pop outta the corner, as long as they're in "Tenno skoom!!" mode, they're gonna shoot your Orokin Cells right outta your pants.

.

Hitscan bullets: The WORST idea!

[ThePresident777]

The irony is eating me alive.

Kinda like that bleed proc.

 

Warframe is a conflicted game.  Fast and Fluid movement, but, Stamina, plus Movement and Shooting interrupt each other, and the movement speeds are not all that fast anyway for the majority of the warframes.

[OblivionNecroninja]

Warframe is a conflicted game.  Fast and Fluid movement, but, Stamina, plus Movement and Shooting interrupt each other, and the movement speeds are not all that fast anyway for the majority of the warframes.

Yah, they really should have just gotten rid of Stamina when they realized it wasn't affecting the way people played (instead of making the system harsher like they did)

[RustyNaps]

Yah, they really should have just gotten rid of Stamina when they realized it wasn't affecting the way people played (instead of making the system harsher like they did)

Sometime I believe DE's mistakes are caused by the lack of communication with their community and or the miss communication probably caused by relayed information from staff who actually care.

 

In other words, DE needs to get off their high horse and turn to the public for solutions. Since we obviously have deep passion for this game.

[Calayne]

Actually, learning to move and shoot at the same time is super satisfying with Warframe. You can slide, wall run, jump and shoot at the same time, which is really, really great. I particularly love the rolls you perform to the side when you aim.

But the unfortunate thing is that it probably won't save you all that much. It decreases damage, which is nice, but like the Hellion proves, it won't save you from the AoE or the status procs.

The status procs are the most dangerous because in a group, they set you up for a great, big fall. Not to mention, the lag between the rolls and the duration of the rolls itself is very long. We'll never outrun or out manoeuvre bullets or missiles.

But hey, hopefully Movement 2.0, amirite?

Going back to the point, though, the eviscerators here and bleed in general needs a change. From the impotent Grakata bleed to the stupid-stronk Eviscerator bleed, I think some scaling is necessary.

Edited February 12, 2014 by Calayne

[ThePresident777]

 

The point is for the game to be innately difficult while being balanced for that difficulty (in other words, not requiring level 80+ infested for a challenge in a game balanced around 35 max).

 

Those numbers are arbitrary, lacking inherent meaning.  If some people think that level 35 is too difficult and some people think that level 35 is too easy then there should be a freely selectable double enemy level challenge, even x3 and x4 enemy level challenges so that a large customer base is happy to play the game.  Locking challenges behind RNG like DE has done with Nightmare Mode is just a waste of the resources it took to make Nightmare Mode, and a waste of opportunity.

[ThePresident777]

Yah, they really should have just gotten rid of Stamina when they realized it wasn't affecting the way people played (instead of making the system harsher like they did)

 

Sometime I believe DE's mistakes are caused by the lack of communication with their community and or the miss communication probably caused by relayed information from staff who actually care.

 

In other words, DE needs to get off their high horse and turn to the public for solutions. Since we obviously have deep passion for this game.

 

But but guys:

[ThePresident777]

Also... wasn't E Prime the extermination? That's easy. Go further. I guarantee me lurv yuu lorng tiem. And that was one eviscerator, far far away.

Also, no rank 6 serration. Newbies don't have the time for that. No rank 5 piercing hit, either. I'm sorry, but we can't hide behind our power for this one.

But THIS is what the new ones are facing. Go do more missions on earth and tell me when you start dying. How would be nice as well.

The missions will tell us all what is truth and what are lies. Oh, and bring an antitoxin. Newbies can be pretty curious.

 

Do I have to go all the way to Pluto?

Edited February 12, 2014 by ThePresident777

[Calayne]

Sometime I believe DE's mistakes are caused by the lack of communication with their community and or the miss communication probably caused by relayed information from staff who actually care.

 

In other words, DE needs to get off their high horse and turn to the public for solutions. Since we obviously have deep passion for this game.

I personally feel they try to keep our interests in mind as much as they can. The friction is from why they do the things they do with little to no satisfactory answer.

A lot of the changes they made and we didn't like turned out to be better in the long run. Damage 2.0, for example.

Not to mention, they probably have a different goal in mind for Warframe, or perhaps, when all of our topics are condensed by moderators and Rebecca, it starts to look different simply due to the sheer size of our community and feedbacks.

Another possibility is that they know the breadth of the problem much more than we do

I do think they try to follow our suggestions. But we'll never know what they have to face, or what limitations there are.

Still, we should do our best to get them to see the ideas we think will work, as people who have played hundreds of hours. I've never spent as much money or time on a game as this. I'm praying they know what they're doing.

[Calayne]

Those numbers are arbitrary, lacking inherent meaning. If some people think that level 35 is too difficult and some people think that level 35 is too easy then there should be a freely selectable double enemy level challenge, even x3 and x4 enemy level challenges so that a large customer base is happy to play the game. Locking challenges behind RNG like DE has done with Nightmare Mode is just a waste of the resources it took to make Nightmare Mode, and a waste of opportunity.

First off, yes to this! Or maybe the Outer Rim should have a solar rail that sends us to another star system with Hellish missions.

Do I have to all the way to Pluto?

Also, yes. If you can get there with the loadout suggested without dying from profuse blood loss, I applaud your skill.

En garde, gentlemen.

Edit: but really, no. Just try Earth. Emphatize with the newbies. Even with similar gear, we're far more familiar to the game's intricacies and habits. We're already at an advantage.

Edited February 12, 2014 by Calayne

[ThePresident777]

Also... wasn't E Prime the extermination? That's easy. Go further. I guarantee me lurv yuu lorng tiem. And that was one eviscerator, far far away.

Also, no rank 6 serration. Newbies don't have the time for that. No rank 5 piercing hit, either. I'm sorry, but we can't hide behind our power for this one.

But THIS is what the new ones are facing. Go do more missions on earth and tell me when you start dying. How would be nice as well.

The missions will tell us all what is truth and what are lies. Oh, and bring an antitoxin. Newbies can be pretty curious.

 

You do get some mods at low levels.  Sure, you don't get a ton of them.  But at least one Serration, Hornet's Nest, Redirection, Vitality is far from impossible to get.  What you will not get is toxin or cold mods, or most likely not one storm bringer.  You will get enough fusion cores to rank mods up.