U12 Valkyr Changes Feedback

[Monolake]

A few bullet points about the new ult from my posts in another thread.

 

-Weapon Mods that affect the damage of new Hysteria:  Spoiled Strike, Pressure point, Organ Shatter, True Steel, Berserker (technically)

-Weapon Mods that do not affect Hysteria damage: everything else (including Jagged Edge and other increases to puncture/slash/impact)

 

-Hysteria gained: Slide attack damage, ground finisher damage, larger hitbox, decent AOE effect

-Hysteria lost: Base critical chance/damage (now inherited strictly from weapon), high Power Strength scaling

-Unaffected by changes: High chance to crit for double damage, attack speed, floatiness, base damage

 

All in all, it is actually a sizable DPS loss, and even more unfairly a loss of a weapon slot.  The only viable weapons are Zorens, Cleavers, and Ichors. The damage scaling is also very off.  8/10 Blind rage and max focus increase damage by only around 25%.  Even weapon damage scaling is terrible, with 100% melee damage increasing damage by around 15%, but at least you are forced to take that.  The only boosts which scale normally are critical chance and critical damage which is why only three weapons are even viable.  

 

Edit: for clarity

Observation from testing or any source with numbers? 

 

 

I actually went this way and built max crit Ichors and went into T3 ext for testing  - now she did soolid damage, significantly better than before the patch (but have to account for +40% from rank 7 Steel charge too). 7-9k crits and 4k on heavily armored targets from what I could see (damn damage numbers are so faded, while useless XP numbers are clear) and it was just obvious that she kills heavies much faster.

 

 

~9k http://i.imgur.com/y4P07xR.jpg

16k even http://i.imgur.com/G3HC7NV.jpg 

 

 

One more edit: too bad Hysteria still feels like you are grabbing air, bad animation, no feedback, you cant tell if you are hitting anything, NO FUN.

Edited February 6, 2014 by Monolake

[Rancorrising]

Observation from testing or any source with numbers? 

 

 

I actually went this way and built max crit Ichors and went into T3 ext for testing  - now she did soolid damage, significantly better than before the patch (but have to account for +40% from rank 7 Steel charge too). 7-9k crits and 4k on heavily armored targets from what I could see (damn damage numbers are so faded, while useless XP numbers are clear) and it was just obvious that she kills heavies much faster.

 

My observations are from extended testing with various mod settings, and are fairly accurate.  In all honesty, it is a DPS buff if and only if you are wielding Dual Ichor.  That is, only if you crit, since damage without critting was cut by more than 50%.

 

As for the very high numbers, I would take into account that the melee attack can easily headshot.

Edited February 6, 2014 by Rancorrising

[Cyrionn]

Agreed, even if the ult is buffed wearing Dual Ichors I really don't see the point making it one (ok three before someone names zorens and cleavers) weapon focused.

And yes, making it AoE barely helps the fact the the animation is still damn akward.

[Rancorrising]

Wow this just keeps getting weirder.  Just finished testing to my satisfaction (or confusion, not quite sure which yet).

 

-The base damage for this skill is not affected by ANYTHING.  It is essentially a flat 100 slash/pierce/impact that can't be modded in any way.  This includes Steel Charge and Power Strength.

 

-Base weapon damage (before modding) is factored into the new base damage.  If a weapon dealt 50 damage, then 50 damage is added to the base.  In addition, whatever type of damage your weapon dealt before, it now deals an equal split of slash/impact/pierce.  This added base damage SEEMS to be boosted by Steel Charge.

 

-Melee attack damage is also doing some weird things.  It seems to be multiplied by 1.5, for whatever reason.  Meaning, if your weapon deals 25 damage base, added a maxed Spoiled Strike (100% damage) increases the damage of your normal attacks by 37.5.  This added damage is NOT affected by Steel Charge, and also does not seem to be affected by Power Strength.

 

-Power Strength seems to increase damage at around a 1:1 ratio.  Meaning, if you slot in 30% Power Strength, each attack does 30 more damage, flat.  This is also the one of the only parts of the formula which is influenced by Steel Charge, meaning that a maxed Blind Rage increases base damage by 130.

 

-Critical Strike is basically the only thing that seems to be working as anticipated.  My best guess is that the base critical chance of the weapon is doubled; whether True Steel is doubled or not I am not patient enough to confirm.  Critical damage works perfectly, although the critical damage is more often than not doubled.  The percentage of this seems to be very high, and higher for weapons with lower critical strike chances.  Emphasis on seems.

 

Long story short, while maximizing damage is great, Hysteria is dependent primarily upon the high critical chance and damage of the three 3x critical damage weapons, since that is now the only way to increase the low 300 base damage.  Damage has been severely nerfed for EVERY other weapon.  While the old hysteria could hit around 1.2k without critting, the new one maxes out around 600, making it even more reliant on critical strikes.  So, while under very strict circumstances it is a minor damage buff, it is not enough to compensate for the new, strict requirements for making the damage viable.

 

Edit: Grammer

Edited February 6, 2014 by Rancorrising

[Monolake]

Wow this just keeps getting weirder.  Just finished testing to my satisfaction (or confusion, not quite sure which yet).

 

-The base damage for this skill is not affected by ANYTHING.  It is essentially a flat 100 slash/pierce/impact that can't be modded in any way.  This includes Steel Charge and Power Strength.

 

-Base weapon damage (before modding) is factored into the new base damage.  If a weapon dealt 50 damage, then 50 damage is added to the base.  In addition, whatever type of damage your weapon dealt before, it now deals an equal split of slash/impact/pierce.  This added base damage SEEMS to be boosted by Steel Charge.

 

-Melee attack damage is also doing some weird things.  It seems to be multiplied by 1.5, for whatever reason.  Meaning, if your weapon deals 25 damage base, added a maxed Spoiled Strike (100% damage) increases the damage of your normal attacks by 37.5.  This added damage is NOT affected by Steel Charge, and also does not seem to be affected by Power Strength.

 

-Power Strength seems to increase damage at around a 1:1 ratio.  Meaning, if you slot in 30% Power Strength, each attack does 30 more damage, flat.  This is also the one of the only parts of the formula which is influenced by Steel Charge, meaning that a maxed Blind Rage increases base damage by 130.

 

-Critical Strike is basically the only thing that seems to be working as anticipated.  My best guess is that the base critical chance of the weapon is doubled; whether True Steel is doubled or not I am not patient enough to confirm.  Critical damage works perfectly, although the critical damage is more often than not doubled.  The percentage of this seems to be very high, and higher for weapons with lower critical strike chances.  Emphasis on seems.

 

Long story short, while maximizing damage is great, Hysteria is dependent primarily upon the high critical chance and damage of the three 3x critical damage weapons, since that is now the only way to increase the low 300 base damage.  Damage has been severely nerfed for EVERY other weapon.  While the old hysteria could hit around 1.2k without critting, the new one maxes out around 600, making it even more reliant on critical strikes.  So, while under very strict circumstances it is a minor damage buff, it is not enough to compensate for the new, strict requirements for making the damage viable.

 

Edit: Grammer

 

Wait, it was 300 base damage (100 of each type) x 1.75 (for max rank ability) is it just 100 total now?

SO can I just sack power mods for ... I dont even know what - Rush and max stamina I guess

 

Tried her with Dakkra which has higher base dmg but low crit chance compared to Ichors and I dont  even have to look at numbers, she kills lvl30+ much slower.  So she was a frame that badly needed highend rare mods, now she needs highend clan research weapon.

 

Another thing I noticed is either more armor has such an impact or Hysteria casting is faster, I never come close to death while activating ult under fire, which often happened before.

Ground finisher also does more damage than before.  Thats like 6 hits per second and heavy gunner is done http://i.imgur.com/owKtTT9.png

 

Also can DE start to actually publish real info and numbers about abilities, or will this remain a game of confusion forever? Maybe you need to have Ash in you arsenal to have Valk do more melee damge? WHO KNOWS

Edited February 6, 2014 by Monolake

[R1chard69]

Yeah....I just went through and examined a fraps video of myself in a solo survival. I'm doing about 1/10th of the damage I used to and hysteria lasts half as long as it did yesterday. I spent a lot of time making Valkyr as cool as I could despite her issues, and they have not improved her, they have completely destroyed her. I'm sad...I think I'm going to just play something else for today.

 

Edit: I actually timed out the Hysteria now, it is still 30 seconds, but I get so little killing done I guess it just didn't feel like it.

Edited February 6, 2014 by R1chard69

[Cyrionn]

Wait, it was 300 base damage (100 of each type) x 1.75 (for max rank ability) is it just 100 total now?

SO can I just sack power mods for ... I dont even know what - Rush and max stamina I guess

 

Tried her with Dakkra which has higher base dmg but low crit chance compared to Ichors and I dont  even have to look at numbers, she kills lvl30+ much slower.  So she was a frame that badly needed highend rare mods, now she needs highend clan research weapon.

 

Another thing I noticed is either more armor has such an impact or Hysteria casting is faster, I never come close to death while activating ult under fire, which often happened before.

Ground finisher also does more damage than before.  Thats like 6 hits per second and heavy gunner is done http://i.imgur.com/owKtTT9.png

 

Also can DE start to actually publish real info and numbers about abilities, or will this remain a game of confusion forever? Maybe you need to have Ash in you arsenal to have Valk do more melee damge? WHO KNOWS

Since Oberon will get a new goatish helmet, was thinking about trying some sacrifices to get my damage back... Though I don't like blood that much, I'd prefer true values. :)

 

Now about her new tankyness I tried using a Steel Fiber (far from being maxed, ~70%) with my full power strength build, shouting my Warcry and standing still facing two napalms and few more mobs. I stood in the fire for 10 seconds and they barely scratched me, it was only a Saturn survival though but ancient version wouldn't stand this much damage for sure.

 

That said I don't want to go dual ichor build, I just don't like daggers (especially weird ones o.O) and playing her as tank that has no crowd control doesn't excite me either.

 

Thank you guys for the nice piece of information you gave there, I've been too lazy to go this far in the tests.

[linixxx]

Potatoe - yes (if you like to play her that is) Forma - no. You will have enough points just from Steel Charge aura.

Ty man!! the aura makes sense xD I didn't realize that.

[linixxx]

So... I guess we will have to wait till the melee 2.0 arrives and buff all the m-weapons...

 

Butt this is weird a frame xtremelly dependent of formas, potatos and a good melee weapon with only one build to make her name (zerker).

 

 

cause i cant see a heavy tank without cc or dmg being called berzerker (don't make any sense to me).

[Monolake]

Yeah, power mods  (Focus+ Blind rage 9) give about 45% increase http://i.imgur.com/oBEIWeY.jpg  vs ~1600 w/o them in the earlier test

[Boomstick720]

Hmmm... this does sound cause like cause for concern.

 

HOWEVER

 

Melee 2.0 seems to be just around the corner, and since Hysteria seems to be affected by these mods, it would make sense that they seem comparatively weak now.  I would suggest we wait until Melee 2.0 is released, and then if the same problems still exist, we can seriously dive into fixing the ability.  

[linixxx]

^ Thas what i'm saying

[Cyrionn]

Hmmm... this does sound cause like cause for concern.

 

HOWEVER

 

Melee 2.0 seems to be just around the corner, and since Hysteria seems to be affected by these mods, it would make sense that they seem comparatively weak now.  I would suggest we wait until Melee 2.0 is released, and then if the same problems still exist, we can seriously dive into fixing the ability.  

Well, that would be another communication issue. It was clearly stated by devs that melee 2.0 won't affect Hysteria. But well, waiting is all we have so you're right.

[Rancorrising]

Wait, it was 300 base damage (100 of each type) x 1.75 (for max rank ability) is it just 100 total now?

SO can I just sack power mods for ... I dont even know what - Rush and max stamina I guess

 

Tried her with Dakkra which has higher base dmg but low crit chance compared to Ichors and I dont  even have to look at numbers, she kills lvl30+ much slower.  So she was a frame that badly needed highend rare mods, now she needs highend clan research weapon.

 

Another thing I noticed is either more armor has such an impact or Hysteria casting is faster, I never come close to death while activating ult under fire, which often happened before.

Ground finisher also does more damage than before.  Thats like 6 hits per second and heavy gunner is done http://i.imgur.com/owKtTT9.png

 

Also can DE start to actually publish real info and numbers about abilities, or will this remain a game of confusion forever? Maybe you need to have Ash in you arsenal to have Valk do more melee damge? WHO KNOWS

 

It is 300 damage now unaffected by any mods, split between the three damage types equally.  So far as I can tell, the damage modifier is gone.

 

Power Strength is still very good if you have a base 3x critical damage weapon, since with Hysteria's (generally) doubled critical damage and Organ Shatter a critical hit deals 1140% damage.  With max Power Strength and max Steel Charge you add 200 base damage, which on a critical increases damage by 2280.  However, if your critical damage is not 3x you should not mod in the slightest for Power Strength, or even really use Hysteria at all, sadly.

 

Edit: Clarity

Edited February 7, 2014 by Rancorrising

[Krystalmyth]

I've said it before, the biggest problem for me with Valkyr is her floaty claws, and boring moveset when under Hysteria. Sacrificing my Orthos attack pattern, or big heavy Galatine swings for claws that barely feel like they're hitting anything and I fly over enemies while being propelled forward, missing everything with absolutely no thought, while spamming my attack button is just, freaking horrible. In a game with finishers, knockdowns and grapples, there should be no reason Valkyr players are expected to spend 90% of their time mashing MB1 and hoping for the best.

[Cyrionn]

Bump this thread, not because I started it but because Rancorrising and Monolake pointed how Hysteria works now and why it's broken since the update.

 

And, dunno I still hope for some DE staff member to show up and give us any real value, or just a "Ok sorry it's not working as intended, we'll fix that!"

I fear that Valkyr is already a classified case...

[Ttariel]

Bumping

 

They buffed her in 1 point while hurting her in 2.

 

Giving up a melee slot and base damage just for a skill that will help you only 20% more when it is min/maxed to hell is not worth it.

 

At least tell us you are reading a single post DE please.

[sanj66]

The added armor finally makes her feel like a berserker. Add a good Steel Fiber, and she takes health damage constantly with her thin shields but she's so doped up on raw fury that she just keeps going regardless.

I honestly didn't really notice much different with Hysteria. Tried it out on some Grineer and it still took ages to punch my way through the heavies even with a potatoed and nicely modded melee weapon equipped. Wouldn't it be so much more elegant to make Hysteria force us to use our equipped melee weapon, along with all its visuals, attacks, and stats? If I want Valkyr to go insane with a Magistar, I should be able to have that happen. Just give us an attack speed bonus and cause all enemies killed while Hysteric to be gibbed. Best ability ever.

No offence but do you know wat a berserker is? A berserker is not meant to tank damage while dealing damage its meant to rapidly kill before it takes damage or die, a berserker is high damage and mid to low armor to increase speed and dps, there is no way to justify this buff saying she can now tank damage better, how does a berserker have 3x the armor of both tank frames? Its the same broken logic with nyx and volt, volt is supposed to be the alternative to weapons yet he has regular energy pool while nyx has quite a lot more. Edited February 7, 2014 by sanj66

[Cyrionn]

Well as I said elsewhere let's stop focusing on what a berserker should be. DE gave name her "berserker" so we knew by advance she would be a close-combat focused frame going crazy in the melee.

 

They shouldn't have used this archetype name I guess because it seems to deceive many players and obviously she isn't what a berserker should be even if she looks like it. Intended or not, I don't care as long as they make her work properly to be honest, and we are miles away from this, even more since U12.

 

If any staff member read this, still not any real value to give us ? Is this result what you expected to get ? Even if you said it wouldn't, melee 2.0 should be affecting Hysteria if it uses weapon stats, am I wrong ?

 

So many questions yet not a single answer, just a "we're on it" would stop me from posting on every Valkyr thread that appears and from bumping this one. Until then, no cookies for you ! :3

Edited February 7, 2014 by Cyrionn

[Redlove108]

I too am having trouble making Valkyr work but mostly for entirely different reasons.

 

 

I'm trying a Paralysis built and focusing heavily on that ability and yet it is not working out well. Paralysis could do around 1700 damage if you mod her right but only for the first burst. With each additional Paralysis she does less and less damage because it works with her current shields not her total shields. So if her max shield was 450 and I had only 300 (due to enemy fire) at the moment of casting, it'll calculate the damage based on the 300 not the 450.

 

This leads me to believe that Paralysis is meant to be used in the mist of Hysteria. However that too is a problem. Beyond the problems people have already mentioned Hysteria actually makes Valkyr run slower! I can not slide as long as I normally do without it. I can not run as fast either. At first it wasn't noticible but when I had to chase down mobs I couldn't help but think... why is it taking me so long to catch up to these guys?

 

See I use a shotgun with Valkyr and I run fast, slide a lot and shotgun most mobs between 1-10ft? Give or take a few feet. Regardless I get close and I do it as fast as possible so I go from mob to mob, blowing them over with one shot. Yet in Hysteria I can't move as fast and I'm slowly realising this flaw which is a HUGE issue!

 

It's bad enough that my swings have zero arc; that I have zero reach; that I have a slow attack speed compared to my melee weapon; that none of the mobs I'm attacking are slowed; that mobs actually manage to outrun me; that I must kill a set number or I'll be taking damage but I am now also slowed down!?

 

Hopefully someone else can confirm if this is just my imagination or not. So because there is so many flaws with Hysteria, I'm considering going with a Warcry build and seeing how well that holds up. With the right weapons and my hit and run style I could probably make it work... maybe.

[Cyrionn]

No you're are right dude, mobility in Hysteria state sucks. And Paralysis...at least you tried.

 

And by the way I'd like to copy something Megan posted the 1st of February :

 

Melee 2.0 and Hysteria

As work on Melee 2.0 continues players have been asking how it will affect Valkyr’s Hysteria ability. The answer is it won’t. Hysteria is meant to be a ‘state’ you’re in rather than a melee weapon. Recently the ‘Upcoming Changes’ for Valkyr made back in December was closed and feedback was noted. Geoff has stated that the scope of the work involved in Melee 2.0 means it is not making it into the “U12 build” but will come after.

 

Well, ok you kept the "state", other than that it's like holding your melee weapon...

[LtZerge]

I really wish they would give up on the claw thing and change the ability to a more sensible boost with your current equipment. I know a lot of work went into them so make them a separate craftable weapon.

Hysteria should do a few things IMO
1.Force melee
2.Boost movement rate (not volt level per-say but something)
3.Keep the aura, make it so the aura draws aggro/encourages enemies to attempt melee
4.Gives a set bonus to all base damage (and charge attack)
5.Make damage taken get added to next attack (sort of like a blend of melee channel and absorb) up to a set amount
6.Keep the life leach
7.Keep the invincibility with self damage or take it out and make the life leach more dramatic to compensate

Mod level and power level should enhance:
Movement bonus
Base damage bonus
Damage absorbed bonus cap

Really really want a damage bonus from damage-taken thing. The only problem is it becomes very important to have faster hitting weapons after a certain point where the cap is reached quickly.

Alternatively you could go the Nyx route where there is no cap, in which case simply have what I stated percent based where the modding increases the efficiency of damage taken converted to damage output. It would be fun to take hits like a wall and then come smashing down on a heavy gunner with your 30 seconds of sponging in one glorious swing of death, or keep fighting the whole duration for more steady streams of damage, and somewhat retains its balance in the sense you're very limited in targets next to absorb. To make things more fun, count friendly fire. Imagine a Valkyr charging into battle with her mighty (whatever) with a fellow tenno following behind, filling her with Soma (....) to fuel her blood lust

And paralyze, just... I don't really know what's to be done with it. The concept of converting shields to damage/cc on a frame with terrible shields seems weird to me

[Cyrionn]

Paralysis is meant to be used while in Hysteria state I think, there is no ther point in it... And I agree it's far from being a must use (I don't).

 

I watched the stream today and didn't heard a single word on her. I missed a few minutes though, so they may have said something I've missed. Any clue for me or Rebecca ignored us ?

[Monolake]

I too am having trouble making Valkyr work but mostly for entirely different reasons.

 

 

I'm trying a Paralysis built and focusing heavily on that ability and yet it is not working out well. Paralysis could do around 1700 damage if you mod her right but only for the first burst. With each additional Paralysis she does less and less damage because it works with her current shields not her total shields. So if her max shield was 450 and I had only 300 (due to enemy fire) at the moment of casting, it'll calculate the damage based on the 300 not the 450.

 

This leads me to believe that Paralysis is meant to be used in the mist of Hysteria. However that too is a problem. Beyond the problems people have already mentioned Hysteria actually makes Valkyr run slower! I can not slide as long as I normally do without it. I can not run as fast either. At first it wasn't noticible but when I had to chase down mobs I couldn't help but think... why is it taking me so long to catch up to these guys?

 

See I use a shotgun with Valkyr and I run fast, slide a lot and shotgun most mobs between 1-10ft? Give or take a few feet. Regardless I get close and I do it as fast as possible so I go from mob to mob, blowing them over with one shot. Yet in Hysteria I can't move as fast and I'm slowly realising this flaw which is a HUGE issue!

 

It's bad enough that my swings have zero arc; that I have zero reach; that I have a slow attack speed compared to my melee weapon; that none of the mobs I'm attacking are slowed; that mobs actually manage to outrun me; that I must kill a set number or I'll be taking damage but I am now also slowed down!?

 

Hopefully someone else can confirm if this is just my imagination or not. So because there is so many flaws with Hysteria, I'm considering going with a Warcry build and seeing how well that holds up. With the right weapons and my hit and run style I could probably make it work... maybe.

I feel like sprint speed is the same in ult form (tried it with Rush and w/o)  only thing is - you cant accelerate with spin attack during ult.

 

Paralysis ... I dont even know why it exists. You are right, its only use at full power when your shields are not reduced by enemies - either from stealth or under ulty. You must equip max Redirection on her for Paralysis,  otherwise shield is not needed, waste of mods slot... and for what? I did some testing and the damage is weirdly unreliable, either fading with distance or being blocked by enemies (guy in front of you gets hit for more than the one behind him) and it is completely blocked by any obstacles, the AOE is already quite small, it hits heads so corpus crewmen receive 1/10 of the damage, the stagger effect is insignificant - too short to be a CC, instead you can do a ground slam attack to knockdown enemies for real. The only use I found for it was against soft infested - they dont hit your shileds from a distance and recieve full damamge due to lack of armor. Better to free 2 slots throwing away both Paralysis and Redirection.

 

Warcry costs bloody 75 energy, unrecastable till its over thus its not a viable CC, it give good attack speed and armor buff tho. It should be 50 energy skill and re-castable to be really usable and synergyse better with Hysteria, this should have been implemented, she didnt need a flat armor buff, she needed her other skills to be improved.

And trying to melee grineers w/o knockdown immunity(or invis) is not fun at all.

 

damnit i do more damage with Ichors out of Hysteria http://i.imgur.com/hgdxEYo.png and viral procs for halfing the HP  http://i.imgur.com/RXfSdbj.png

Edited February 7, 2014 by Monolake

[Redlove108]

Ripline is another issue all together. I sometimes feel it was meant to be used with Hysteria in where you yank a big heavy mod towards you for you to finish off or to pull back an enemy that's running off. Yet that cost is insane for it's little funtionality. Sure it's 25 energy but look what I can do for 25 with Mag. The balance just doesn't appear to be there.

 

If maybe... Ripline ripped an opponent open with so much force that they explode, it be great! Or maybe it could pierce through multiple mobs and yank them all together. I'm sure there's plenty of ideas here on how to make Ripline more viable.

 

Warcry also has an issue in regards to cost. Sure it gives you an armor buff, melee speed buff, and enemy debuff yet that cost doesn't seem right. For one a melee speed buff seems pointless. With how fast we can swing now with some weapons+ fury mod. I can only imagine how fast you can swing now with this speed buff. That E key will never be the same. You probably couldn't even utilized the full speed and that's one of my concerns.

 

For a fix, I'd probably swap the melee speed buff for an melee attack buff instead. That makes more sense to me.