U12 Valkyr Changes Feedback

[Cyrionn]

Yes another Valkyr thread !

I won't yet talk about her armor, haven't done enough test for that but I guess this might be time to max my Steel Fiber to see what a diamond skin build can do.

 

Now about her Hysteria...god...

Ok so you guys took the Valkyr Incoming Changes thread, checked what players were whining for and seeing many players saying "we want our melee weapon damage" you just copy/pasted. I'm a bit disappointed by this way of solving the problem but if it would have solved it at least...

 

So what do we have, the claws animation is still akward and bugged as hell (first run I got stucked with orthos p on first Hysteria) but now it has longer range and small AoE effect, that's a not that bad point, even if you guys missed the most important in the fixes.

Then why not giving exact numbers in the patch note, that would truly help players to know how to use their old tool with its new characteristics.

Well small communication lack, nothing really bad there but when it comes to changing something as important as an "ultimate" on frame you have to be precise, and you knew how much this change was expected. :)

 

Now let's get to the core, the true damages. If you guys followed the feedback, this was intended to be a buff I guess, total fail on this.

 

As soon as I logged on I went to save Darvo with my brand new Valkyr hyped as hell my bloodthirst lighting a red glow in my eyes :

" Oh ! There are the Hyenas, berserk mode on come at me doggy ! Ok you run, clever dog I can't catch you... Now I get you, suck on this brat ! Ahem...am I hitting you ? Doggie stap... "

...end up dead as soon as I got out of Hysteria, the shield of one of the Hyenas barely scratched. Well, Soma is my friend and as soon as I revived I gave them some of his love.

 

Mission finished, lemme check arsenal :

Warframe

 

Melee Weapon

 

Okay it's not the "ultimate" build, at least I can't get much more damage from my frame (3 lvls on Steel Charge). Orthos would need a Jagged Edge (can't drop it and don't want to buy mods) and this Smite Corpus isn't full rank, yet it's enough to tear through any Pluto mish without any problem.

 

Well, I told myself that it's because the new ZanukaHyena mob is bugged or overpewered. Nevermind, I'm still feeling the rage, let's try this new mission type on Earth !

 

First Hysteria casted I lost ability to take or defend points of interest, walking in the white circle would just do nothing.

Ok, more challenge I guess ! Let's wreck 'em all !

 

Grineers on this place are level 6 or so yet I've been surprised when I saw one taking more than one hit to die. So I paid attention to the numbers : 587 / 587 / 865 / 587......1587 (crit!)...

I mean...what ? Orthos alone hits for 1300(non crit) with the same build, which is a total wrong elem combo. And he is waaaaay nicer to use, no comparison.

 

I can read on another thread that with Dual Ichors you can manage to get 4.3k crits on lvl 1 grineer.

Before U12 was out with my current build (well, two level less on Steel Charge actually), I was hitting for between 3-4k in T3 Void Missions with my crits, which were 50% base of the claws.

So now to do slightly better I HAVE TO use Dual Ichors, no other weapon could help there. And still, I didn't tried it myself in T3 Void circumstances so I can't say if it's actually good.

 

So what was the point there, please someone explain me. I had hope and spoke for your side saying that you DE guys would do something better by filtering the feedback because nearly every tool and ideas you needed to change her lied in there.

 

This is a total fail concerning Hysteria and to be honest I don't even want to push the tests further to see this new armor efficiency, I won't do S#&$ in higher levels.

Edited February 6, 2014 by Cyrionn

[AscendantWyvern]

The thing with Hysteria is that you have to treat it like a separate melee weapon and mod your melee weapon accordingly. 

 

Effectively mod for the Hysteria Claws, not the weapon itself. 

 

Now Hysteria has a high crit rate, high crit damage, high damage, and high swing speed for base damage types. (Though your five forma stars tell me that you know this already, I'm just explaining because I like explaining) Maximizing Hysteria requires these four/five things. 

 

It's less that Dual Ichor buffs Hysteria the most, and more that it simply benefits the most from that type of melee build.

Edited February 6, 2014 by AscendantWyvern

[Phoenix86]

A question, does it take in account normal or charged stats in consideration?

[AscendantWyvern]

A question, does it take in account normal or charged stats in consideration?

From what I see, it's normal damage stats, since Hysteria doesn't have a charged attack. I haven't tried adding Charged mods though, so I wouldn't fully know.

[Cyrionn]

The thing with Hysteria is that you have to treat it like a separate melee weapon and mod your melee weapon accordingly. 

 

Effectively mod for the Hysteria Claws, not the weapon itself. 

 

Now Hysteria has a high crit rate, high crit damage, high damage, and high swing speed for base damage types. (Though your five forma stars tell me that you know this already, I'm just explaining because I like explaining) Maximizing Hysteria requires these four/five things. 

 

It's less that Dual Ichor buffs Hysteria the most, and more that it simply benefits the most from that type of melee build.

 

So I read what you posted and thought that I had to try before saying you are wrong.

 

Here is the build I tried this time :

 

As you can see True Steel and Organ Shatter added on it.

If I follow what you're saying, Hysteria still uses old claws stats which are 100 of all base damage, 50% crit chance and 200% crit damage.

So basically True Steel would give me more than 75% crit chance.

 

I made three runs on Terminus to be sure, but this is wrong or I got serious crit problems ! Would crit once every 10 hits which matches the 8% of Orthos Prime better, though for a nice 5763 damage. Though if Organ Shatter would have affect on old Hysteria claws, it would be way more.

 

So yes, I guess claws have now your weapons stats.

 

Edit : I may feel some nice bug in the code...just did another battery of test with same setup, had one of them where I was critting often for 7 to 23k dmg but that is one in 8 runs...

Edited February 6, 2014 by Cyrionn

[AscendantWyvern]

So I read what you posted and thought that I had to try before saying you are wrong.

 

Here is the build I tried this time :

 

 

As you can see True Steel and Organ Shatter added on it.

If I follow what you're saying, Hysteria still uses old claws stats which are 100 of all base damage, 50% crit chance and 200% crit damage.

So basically True Steel would give me more than 75% crit chance.

 

I made three runs on Terminus to be sure, but this is wrong or I got serious crit problems ! Would crit once every 10 hits which matches the 8% of Orthos Prime better, though for a nice 5763 damage. Though if Organ Shatter would have affect on old Hysteria claws, it would be way more.

 

So yes, I guess claws have now your weapons stats.

 

Edit : I may feel some nice bug in the code...just did another battery of test with same setup, had one of them where I was critting often for 7 to 23k dmg but that is one in 8 runs...

it may very much be a bug in the code.

 

I did some testing myself. With a 25% crit rate weapon and a 5% crit rate weapon, and I have to say that your words have salt. 

 

With both weapons having the same mods, the 25% crit weapon hit for roughly 70% of the time. With the 5% crit weapon, Hysteria critted for roughly 30%. Definitely not the consistent 80% that should be there.

 

It's strange, though. If it used the 25% crit rate fully, the crit rate would only be 40%, and 8% for the 5% crit rate weapon. Unless there's a crit modifier in Hysteria now, I don't think it 100% copies the melee weapon stats.

Edited February 6, 2014 by AscendantWyvern

[Cyrionn]

No you're right, but as in said in first post, they failed their communication on this. We were waiting for this with high expectations and we actually have no precise value of the change.

The only thing that is for sure is that without Dual Ichors you will deal less than before the update, which is quite disappointing. And on top of that it forces you to use specific mods and weapons for your ult to work, while frame mods should be enough... And forget about leveling a melee weapon or forget about Hysteria (not saying forget about Valkyr but thinking it fiercely).

And I'm not talking about newcommers wanting to give a try to Valkyr as a second frame. When they'll use Hysteria while holding their brand new Cronus as melee weapon they'll quickly get back to their Exca/Mag/Loki and cry on the money spent.

Edited February 6, 2014 by Cyrionn

[Zyrusticae]

All I have to say is this:

 

1020 armor... and Steel Frame isn't even maxed.

 

Hilarious. And awesome.

 

Quick calculation, without vitality or vigor she has 1320 EHP with this much armor. With a high-level vigor and vitality mod her EHP goes above max-ranked Snowglobe.

 

Combine that with the health restore on Hysteria and you have yourself a ridiculously tanky, hard-to-kill warframe. Perhaps not so much as a power efficiency-specced Rhino, but still, pretty damn tough.

[Cyrionn]

Well tanky maybe, but without any CC or damage I don't see the point... Though if Hysteria doesn't get a quick rework the only way I see Valkyr being used will be with Warcry spamming for insane tankyness with nice melee attack speed.

[Zyrusticae]

Personally, I think Paralyze should be taken out (maybe moved to being the charge attack for Hysteria's weapon without the ridiculous shield drain) and replaced with another ability entirely, something that actually makes sense with the rest of her kit. An ability that scales on shields on a frame with horrible shields to begin with is just nonsense. 

[Garuger]

No you have bad build and bad melee . Valkyr needs a crit build not a charge build 

 

This what you should have to do be fully useful

 

 

 

Edited February 6, 2014 by Garuger

[[DE]Momaw]

The added armor finally makes her feel like a berserker. Add a good Steel Fiber, and she takes health damage constantly with her thin shields but she's so doped up on raw fury that she just keeps going regardless.

 

I honestly didn't really notice much different with Hysteria. Tried it out on some Grineer and it still took ages to punch my way through the heavies even with a potatoed and nicely modded melee weapon equipped.   Wouldn't it be so much more elegant to make Hysteria force us to use our equipped melee weapon, along with all its visuals, attacks, and stats? If I want Valkyr to go insane with a Magistar, I should be able to have that happen.  Just give us an attack speed bonus and cause all enemies killed while Hysteric to be gibbed.  Best ability ever.

[Dredj]

The added armor finally makes her feel like a berserker. Add a good Steel Fiber, and she takes health damage constantly with her thin shields but she's so doped up on raw fury that she just keeps going regardless.

 

I honestly didn't really notice much different with Hysteria. Tried it out on some Grineer and it still took ages to punch my way through the heavies even with a potatoed and nicely modded melee weapon equipped.   Wouldn't it be so much more elegant to make Hysteria force us to use our equipped melee weapon, along with all its visuals, attacks, and stats? If I want Valkyr to go insane with a Magistar, I should be able to have that happen.  Just give us an attack speed bonus and cause all enemies killed while Hysteric to be gibbed.  Best ability ever.

 

Like Fallout's "Bloody Mess" perk ;)

Edited February 6, 2014 by Dredj

[Cyrionn]

The added armor finally makes her feel like a berserker. Add a good Steel Fiber, and she takes health damage constantly with her thin shields but she's so doped up on raw fury that she just keeps going regardless.

 

I honestly didn't really notice much different with Hysteria. Tried it out on some Grineer and it still took ages to punch my way through the heavies even with a potatoed and nicely modded melee weapon equipped.   Wouldn't it be so much more elegant to make Hysteria force us to use our equipped melee weapon, along with all its visuals, attacks, and stats? If I want Valkyr to go insane with a Magistar, I should be able to have that happen.  Just give us an attack speed bonus and cause all enemies killed while Hysteric to be gibbed.  Best ability ever.

And what about a Glaive or a dirty whip... no she needs her own set of claws with nice animations.

 

 

No you have bad build and bad melee . Valkyr needs a crit build not a charge build 

 

This what you should have to do be fully useful

 

 

 

Excuse me, I said Dual Ichors only but I guess Dual Zoren or Dual Cleaver can work also. That's three weapons to have not much more power than she had before, then forget about the rest.

And even with those weapons, do you really feel like it's more powerfull ?

 

And once again, her ult shouldn't depend on her weapon, or make it mastery rank 6 or 7 warframe because...well just read earlier.

Edited February 6, 2014 by Cyrionn

[Ttariel]

So i doubt ichor is the one and only weapon for this. What about the Zoren copter ?

[LtZerge]

A lot of people wanted the claws to inherit mods/stats because the ability scaled poorly otherwise, DE listened but only partially implemented the idea, leading to this weird state we have now where only a few weapons truly shine. I doubt we'll see Hysteria ditch the claw thing entirely unless they make it a separate equipable weapon to craft. If they ditch the claw thing entirely, well everyone's going from dual ichor's and co to galatines and co? There's a lot of possibilities to change for sure...

[AscendantWyvern]

So i doubt ichor is the one and only weapon for this. What about the Zoren copter ?

Pretty much any crit build weapon is suitable. DZorens, DIchors, DCleavers, etc.

[Cyrionn]

Pretty much any crit build weapon is suitable. DZorens, DIchors, DCleavers, etc.

Ok, what's been said before. And the what can you put after the etc ? Furax ? Hysteria also depends on base damage now.

Which means except Dual Ichors (and maybe zorens and cleavers) nothing will equal the damage a full power strength build had before the update. And we wanted more damage right ? It's not it like we needed a nerf.

Edited February 6, 2014 by Cyrionn

[linixxx]

Should i invest potatos and formas to my Valkyr??

 

I'm really scared because you guys have a really solid point...

 

Why pop up my ulti if my melee do more dmg (whitout the god mod)??

[AscendantWyvern]

Ok, what's been said before. And the what can you put after the etc ? Furax ? Hysteria also depends on base damage now.

Which means except Dual Ichors (and maybe zorens and cleavers) nothing will equal the damage a full power strength build had before the update. And we wanted more damage right ? It's not it like we needed a nerf.

I wholly believe it's a coding bug from attempting to integrate weapon mods into an ability. 

[Monolake]

I can confirm Valk was doing more damage before this patch, and that was with old Steel Charge (+18% iirc)  

Today I ran her with maxed Steelcharge +55% and she was doing worse...

[Monolake]

Should i invest potatos and formas to my Valkyr??

 

I'm really scared because you guys have a really solid point...

 

Why pop up my ulti if my melee do more dmg (whitout the god mod)??

Potatoe - yes (if you like to play her that is) Forma - no. You will have enough points just from Steel Charge aura.

[Rancorrising]

A few bullet points about the new ult from my posts in another thread.

 

-Weapon Mods that affect the damage of new Hysteria:  Spoiled Strike, Pressure point, Organ Shatter, True Steel, Berserker (technically)

-Weapon Mods that do not affect Hysteria damage: everything else (including Jagged Edge and other increases to puncture/slash/impact)

 

-Hysteria gained: Slide attack damage, ground finisher damage, larger hitbox, decent AOE effect

-Hysteria lost: Base critical chance/damage (now inherited strictly from weapon), high Power Strength scaling

-Unaffected by changes: High chance to crit for double damage, attack speed, floatiness, base damage

 

All in all, it is actually a sizable DPS loss, and even more unfairly a loss of a weapon slot.  The only viable weapons are Zorens, Cleavers, and Ichors. The damage scaling is also very off.  8/10 Blind rage and max focus increase damage by only around 25%.  Even weapon damage scaling is terrible, with 100% melee damage increasing damage by around 15%, but at least you are forced to take that.  The only boosts which scale normally are critical chance and critical damage which is why only three weapons are even viable.  

 

Edit: for clarity

Edited February 6, 2014 by Rancorrising

[TerraNovaX]

I can understand the frustration you are having, but I was able to go punch the hell out of Ambulas quite easily in a few seconds. Granted he's only a level 35 boss, but the fact remains that Hysteria is still amazing. One punch restored all my health and I laughed at my enemies as they failed in their attempts to harm me. The only downside to the move is that i'm not noticing the Berserker mod working with it and the Crit chance is possibly bugged. Also, instead of taking on it's own 300 base damage, it might be taking on ALL aspects of your melee. Wether this is a bug or not is unknown.

 

In my opinion, the only change i'd like to see is the damage buff applied to the base 300 of the claws instead of the base of the melee, then your DPS you seek will become rediculously awesome. It will even be more awesome if the Crit mods start working properly with it.

 

All in all I think the ability is just bugged for a little, so be calm and wait, it shall be fixed soon.

[Cyrionn]

A few bullet points about the new ult from my posts in another thread.

 

-Weapon Mods that affect the damage of new Hysteria:  Spoiled Strike, Pressure point, Organ Shatter, True Steel, Berserker (technically)

-Weapon Mods that do not affect Hysteria damage: everything else (including Jagged Edge and other increases to puncture/slash/impact)

 

-Hysteria gained: Slide attack damage, ground finisher damage, larger hitbox, decent AOE effect

-Hysteria lost: Base critical chance/damage (now inherited strictly from weapon), high Power Strength scaling

-Unaffected by changes: High chance to crit for double damage, attack speed, floatiness, base damage

 

All in all, it is actually a sizable DPS loss, and even more unfairly a loss of a weapon slot.  The only viable weapons are Zorens, Cleavers, and Ichors. The damage scaling is also very off.  8/10 Blind rage and max focus increase damage by only around 25%.  Even weapon damage scaling is terrible, with 100% melee damage increasing damage by around 15%, but at least you are forced to take that.  The only boosts which scale normally are critical chance and critical damage which is why only three weapons are even viable.  

 

Edit: for clarity

Nice synthesis, copy paste to DE ! :3