Frost Changes Explained (Game Design)

[Celseus]

Since when old Bastille protect you from bullet? It also get nerfed in the past and he still doing fine.

 

Bastille does more than Snowglobe, it disables ANYONE it touches, effectively protecting you not only from bullets but also everything that mob can do. Furthermore, unlike Snowglobe, you can use Bastille at range (which compliments it's 'touch-only' effect). The drawback is that Bastille costs 25 more energy than Snowglobe but seeing how much more it does -25 energy might seem a little inexpensive even.

 

On a sidenote: I noticed you post vehemently against any thread trying to reason out the Frost ordeal. Maybe you could share with us your history behind that led to this vendetta against all Frost players? There is a slim chance it might contribute to our opinions.

Edited February 7, 2014 by Celseus

[LukeAura]

Exactly. The above post is exactly what is wrong with Frost. But I'm sure DE knows that; We've spent no effort letting them know just how much it blows.

 

What would you suggest to change it? 

Either returned with a nerfed duration. 

Or, it needs to follow the principles of a good health based defense. Smaller target and, movement. 

It's been passed around the forums a little but one suggestions I've heard I really like is to make snowglobe be made of smaller panels that rotate around the cast location. Each has its own individual health, each one can break without destroying the whole. 

Small-each panel only take up a portion of the whole. And each has its own individual health. 

Movement-It's rotating, limiting the amount of time any one section is being attacked by the heaviest front 

Now enemy angles matter as well, even if they're all firing at the same target within the globe, they're likely to be hitting three or more panels at any given time, spreading out the damage. 

 

[OriKlein]

What would you suggest to change it?

Make it scale factored by "current enemy level spawn stage". The end.

Perhaps include some of the other powers as well in this?

Best Regards,

[Calayne]

Actually, you only need one Zephyr. Standing on top of the cryopod. Just like you need one Frost.

 

Also, since when did Frost's Snowglobe protect you from AoEs, melee and knockdowns? Stop insinuating things that Snowglobe never did. It just makes it clear to us that you are one of the many who have never played Frost before and do not know how Snowglobe works, which led to this stupid nerf in the first place.

 

Quite strangely, Frost is one of my most played frames, considering I bring it for Void Defences. While I cannot assure you that I am a very good player, I can assure you I know what I'm talking about. I never insinuated that Snow Globe protected you from CC per-se, but it comes close. With a stretch mod large enough and some strategic placement, you can nullify the knockdown that Bombard rockets have, as well as reflect Anti-MOA bullets and so forth. At the same time, everyone entering the vicinity is slowed, and they become as threatening as Grineer Powerfists. 

 

I have yet to try Zephyr, to be honest, so I'm not sure what sort of field Turbulence projects, but from observation it seems to protect only the front portion of Zephyr. It could be not the case, of course, but I'm not particularly concerned; This is not the point, after all.

 

 

Haha, also, OriKlein, I actually meant no cynicism. ... Well, okay, maybe a little bit. But you really are quite the nit-picky sort, it seems! I'm an INTJ myself, I think.

 

As for my use of "Belief", I think that's rather unfair to single it out as making the following argument weak. After all, whatever we say is in some ways based on our beliefs of the subject in the first place. As for the Warframe and player catering....

 

I most certainly cannot provide any sort of empirical evidence, but from the look of things from inside the game and outside (Like the forums), it's filled with all manner of gamers: The hardcore and the casual; Solo players and socialites; Coop enthusiasts to PVP/MOBA players; RPG gamers and action gamers; Rich folk and poor folk, alike. To this, surely, you can agree. A general gravitation towards customization of gear, fast-paced shooter combat with elements of precise, visceral and satisfying (Heh) melee combat. Lovers of art and animation, as well, should not be underestimated. And in some regards, I think we're all fans of trading cards now.

 

For me, at least, I can say I was drawn to the PVE element, focusing heavily on coop and the large range of weapons. The enemies' art styles greatly interested me, and I can say that seeing the Warframes really made me salivate with anticipation. And when that trailer came out with Excalibur hacking S#&$ in half, I was sold. 

 

Also, I wonder if you're entirely serious about the suggested change. I personally cannot tell! Something like that would be rather strange in implementation, though it would, at the very damn least scale, which is good. 

[TangoZulu57]

I applaud you for looking at the entire issue facing gaming and gamers today.  Most games are about the rewards, either resources, standings or boosts, that are earned by doing missions or quests.  The entertaining part of the games is winning.  If players lost every time they ventured into a mission, they would stop trying to defeat the AI.  The line between too much difficulty and banality depends upon the gamers themselves.  Yes, we all want our chosen character to be just short of a superman, but how much effort are we willing to apply in order for this to happen.  The answer is quite a lot of trial and error, testing, and sharing of information on field results leads a majority of the gamers to setup their frames a certain way.  Is this a way of cheating the game? No, it is the way any group solves a problem within the community. 

 

The quality of game play and camaraderie that comes from an hour or so defense or survival is one of the factors that brings many people back to the game.  With Frosts' snow globe power reduced to its current level, the frame will probably be reconfigured for offence.  A role which it can own with much mastery.

 

The major thrust of any of the patches should be to promote game play,  Simply put, the gamer is the customer.  Keep the customer happy, help him/her find answers to the questions they ask, and let them know that they matter as a customer. These ideas will keep gamers returning to play the game, as well as their friends.

 

-----

TangoZulu57

[ZephyrPhantom]

The quality of game play and camaraderie that comes from an hour or so defense or survival is one of the factors that brings many people back to the game.  With Frosts' snow globe power reduced to its current level, the frame will probably be reconfigured for offence.  A role which it can own with much mastery.

Except there are at least 5 frames that do AoE offense better than Frost (Nova, Ember, Saryn, Oberon, Nyx), and 5 more that do crowd control better than Frost.(Excalibro, Vauban, Rhino, Mag, Loki). If you're thinking in terms of tanking, I will gladly point you to Rhino/Trinity/Valkyr instead.

 

It's honestly kind of sad to see that we're theorizing Zephyr, a frame designed for mobility and not defense, could actually outperform the current Frost. Frost's defining role in the Warframe meta was being able to defend in long firefight when other frames couldn't. With Snow Globe's nerf, it's blatantly clear anything Frost can do can be done better by another frame.

Edited February 7, 2014 by ZephyrPhantom

[Leuca]

The way I look at it, if our powers are tuned down so that they're not gamebreaking, the rest of the game (including any possible end-game content) can be reasonably balanced and not just scale to the point that a slip-up in tactics causes you to die in one hit. The reason Frost users are upset is that the nerf doesn't (yet) account for game scaling.

[tris1]

Except there are at least 5 frames that do AoE offense better than Frost (Nova, Ember, Saryn, Oberon, Nyx), and 5 more that do crowd control better than Frost.(Excalibro, Vauban, Rhino, Mag, Loki). If you're thinking in terms of tanking, I will gladly point you to Rhino/Trinity/Valkyr instead.

 

It's honestly kind of sad to see that we're theorizing Zephyr, a frame designed for mobility and not defense, could actually outperform the current Frost. Frost's defining role in the Warframe meta was being able to defend in long firefight when other frames couldn't. With Snow Globe's nerf, it's blatantly clear anything Frost can do can be done better by another frame.

technically rhino can do better than frost now since

 

rhino charger: moblility and knocks down targets

iron skin: moblie, no duration, 25 energy, stops all procs and all staggers

roar:damage boost

rhino stomp: damage and a large radius cc that can last a while

 

 

then theres poor frost

 

freeze:single target breaks on damage not hitscan

ice wave: small radius, low damage, cc doesnt last more than 5 secs

snowglobe: not mobile, big so draws fire easyer, health and timer..., cc not worth it now since it dies before anyone gets in

avalanche:no cc damage is still low,small radius

 

 

we got a hard decission here