My Issue With Frost 2.0: Slow And Meh

[ThePresident777]

1)  Frost is slow.  Which I never liked.  This is a fast and fluid movement game.  I see no place for slow.  The old armor vs. speed trade off was never any good.  It was just a bunch of D&D nonsense.  Slow people get left behind and miss all the action or bore the team with trying to not out pace them.

 

2)  Snow Globe could have been countered with better enemy AI.  This would have solved a much more important problem.  The AI could have done something relatively smart like just calling in extra units more suited to dealing with Snow Globe instead of just mobbing willy nilly, or straggling in.

 

3)  Snow Globe nerf didn't do anything to improve the action in the game.  The AI is still dumb.  Defense still promotes pod baby sitting.

 

4)  Snow Globe nerf amounts to destroying Snow globe.  Snow Globe is dead, all that's left is a rotting corpse in our inventory.  It's a loss and it stinks.  There was no trade.  We didn't get another toy to play with.  (Yes, this is a game.  These are our toys.  Let's not get too serious here.)

 

5)  Why would I chose to do 1000 damage in 15 meters with Avalanche when I can do that with another Warframe that has more action, more fast and fluid movement?

 

6)  Warframe has always been about being able to inflict, even spam, catastrophe on the enemy, in a variety of ways.  That is what nukes are all about.  I don't think anyone can seriously argue otherwise here.  Just look at the game itself and it's history.  My opinion is that without the ability to inflict, even spam, catastrophe on the enemy, Warframe is dead to me.  And, the loss is not something I can accept kindly.  So, this is important ot me.  Frost was able to inflict catastrophic defense on the enemy.  But, not any more.  Avalanche now inflicts offensive catastrophe to the enemy comparable to Crush for instance.  But, we already had Crush.  Snow globe was unique.  Snow Globe nerf was a loss of uniqueness.

 

7)  Snow Globe nerf does not satisfy the stated goals for Frost 2.0: "Snowglobe being a solely duration based skill created issues of viability of other frames in the "Defense" mission types, as well as a skew towards pace of gameplay.

 

The goal is to get Snowglobe, and Frost overall, in a place of power and action, but does not render gameplay optional, but we need everyone's experiences to get it right as we continue to make changes."

 

8)  Nerfing something does not make something else viable.  A mud sandwich doesn't become tasty because  the roast beef is covered in mold and crawling with maggots.

 

9)  Other Warframes were already viable.  People just choose Frost.

 

10)  Giving a person a choice then taking it away from them is unfriendly, quite hostile really.

 

11)  The mission itself, the spawns, and Frosts slow movement skews the pace of the gameplay.  None of that is resolved.

 

12)  Frost is too slow for action.  This is really obvious.  Why is our help necessary for this?  We've been complaining about slow movement and other issues for months now and Snow globe nerfs addresses nothing.

 

13)  Snow Globe was and is a static ability.  Destroying it does not make it active.  It's just a corpse now.

 

So, what was done to Frost was just utterly destructive and boring.  That is no way to make a game.

Edited February 7, 2014 by ThePresident777

[KibaWesker]

I don't mind the snowglobe nerf but the health is pathetic. I think they will fix it but its a stationary globe that's used to defend an entire team. so all incoming fire from all directions is bombarding that shield. It breaks way to easily. And having a TIMER on top of a health pool? no. choose one or the other but not both. AND with such a pathetic skill; it still coasts 75 energy? its not worth that. I shouldn't need to use streamline to lower its cost.

Edited February 7, 2014 by KibaWesker

[Roogan]

Your being utterly destructive and boring, I mean, literally, you keep making threads about how what you want in this game is to be "able to spam catastrophe" when anyone who has played with a nova knows how that goes.

 

Warframe is about more then being overpowered, we're hitting the stages where things are actually starting to get semi balanced, if all you want to do is press the same key over and over with no threat;

 

Then I have a better game for you

 

http://orteil.dashnet.org/cookieclicker/

[ThePresident777]

I don't mind the snowglobe nerf but the health is pathetic. I think they will fix it but its a stationary globe that's used to defend an entire team. so all incoming fire from all directions is bombarding that shield. It breaks way to easily. And having a TIMER on top of a health pool? no. choose one or the other but not both. AND with such a pathetic skill; it still coasts 75 energy? its not worth that. I shouldn't need to use streamline to lower its cost.

 

Good point on the timer plus globe health.  But, even if they increase the health or get rid of the timer, it's static and DE says that it wants Frost to be more active.  Frost is not going to be more active if he can't keep up and Snow Globe just sits there.

Edited February 7, 2014 by ThePresident777

[Hixlysss]

My only real problem with this change to snowglobe is it has health AND duration. It should honestly have one or the other. On top of that, if you are giving it health, PLEASE LET US SHOOT THROUGH IT! Frost would be used more if there wasn't the worry of tossing up a snowglobe and blocking the teams shots.

[KibaWesker]

Good point on the timer plus globe health.  But, even if they increase the health or get rid of the timer, it's static and DE says that it wants Frost to be more active.  Frost is not going to be more active if he can't keep up and Snow Globe just sits there.

Then they should give him AoE chill effects. His first skill only hits one guy and his ice shards hit in a straight line. stretch should also increase the width of the ice shards not just the reach cause enemy's don't always stand together they run back and forth. not smart but they still move. If frost can AoE with his attacks then we have a more versatile warframe but frost is ice. ice isn't that volatile, its stagnant! Ice slows things down. wanting a warframe that slows people and is slow to be more active seems like a step in a weird direction lol.

[ThePresident777]

Then they should give him AoE chill effects. His first skill only hits one guy and his ice shards hit in a straight line. stretch should also increase the width of the ice shards not just the reach cause enemy's don't always stand together they run back and forth. not smart but they still move. If frost can AoE with his attacks then we have a more versatile warframe but frost is ice. ice isn't that volatile, its stagnant! Ice slows things down. wanting a warframe that slows people and is slow to be more active seems like a step in a weird direction lol.

 

I can't disagree.  DE seems really conflicted and unsure about Frost.

 

AoE chill effects could be interesting, at least conceptually( in reality, too slow for me to run with).  He's slow, but, he brings the enemy down to his level.  Not fast but, it is sensible within itself.  And, it's just one Warframe, not the enitre game, so if you don't like it, don't play it.  But, what DE has now doesn't even meet their own goals.  They could give him a fast run speed but slow him down when he turns on the AoE chill.  So, you have the option and are not stuck being slow all the time.

 

Also, if they want to improve the action, they could let Frost ride the ice wave.  Although, that would be like Rhino Charge and Slash Dash now.    That's another issue with Frost, uniqueness.

 

Cold is possibly a difficult theme to work with in Warframe.  It's very niche in a fast game.

[KibaWesker]

I can't disagree.  DE seems really conflicted and unsure about Frost.

 

AoE chill effects could be interesting, at least conceptually( in reality, too slow for me to run with).  He's slow, but, he brings the enemy down to his level.  Not fast but, it is sensible within itself.  And, it's just one Warframe, not the enitre game, so if you don't like it, don't play it.  But, what DE has now doesn't even meet their own goals.  They could give him a fast run speed but slow him down when he turns on the AoE chill.  So, you have the option and are not stuck being slow all the time.

 

Also, if they want to improve the action, they could let Frost ride the ice wave.  Although, that would be like Rhino Charge and Slash Dash now.    That's another issue with Frost, uniqueness.

 

Cold is possibly a difficult theme to work with in Warframe.  It's very niche in a fast game.

They seem to be doing a lot with cold though. Look at the Hyena models and now the elemental captains that cause frosts shield to emerge. They also have Mods that reduce ice resistance. So its not like we cant counter these effects and vise versa. And Novas got an ability that slows all enemys and theres an aura for infested speed and you can equip an ice mod to an AOE weapon like the ogris and cause a mass amount of people to slow down. So slowing enemies isn't new to this game! Its a matter of taking a warframe BASED off of Ice, an element that, in ALL games, makes enemies and yourself move slower and turning him into a useable character without sacrificing that "slow" aspect!

[Celseus]

If Snowglobe spamming was something they wanted to prevent, then they just shot themselves in the foot. Now you LITERALLY have to spend 100% of your time spamming Snowglobe & energy restore items at high levels. That's even worse.

What was de thinking? It's not like Frost can kill enemies fast enough either.

Edited February 8, 2014 by Celseus

[-SLX-J3tAc3]

...I have a better game for you

 

http://orteil.dashnet.org/cookieclicker/

 

Now this game was funny! Where do people find games like this? XD

[pisces13]

My frost isn't slow. Use the right mods

[ThePresident777]

My frost isn't slow. Use the right mods

 

1.25 sprint speed is where things start to get fast.

[pisces13]

Full rush, full quick rest, full marathon. Even loki can barely keep up with me. Learn to wall run glitch and you'll never look at frost the same away again.

[ThePresident777]

Full rush, full quick rest, full marathon. Even loki can barely keep up with me. Learn to wall run glitch and you'll never look at frost the same away again.

 

Glitch, you lose.

[ThePresident777]

They seem to be doing a lot with cold though. Look at the Hyena models and now the elemental captains that cause frosts shield to emerge. They also have Mods that reduce ice resistance. So its not like we cant counter these effects and vise versa. And Novas got an ability that slows all enemys and theres an aura for infested speed and you can equip an ice mod to an AOE weapon like the ogris and cause a mass amount of people to slow down. So slowing enemies isn't new to this game! Its a matter of taking a warframe BASED off of Ice, an element that, in ALL games, makes enemies and yourself move slower and turning him into a useable character without sacrificing that "slow" aspect!

 

DE should add super conductivity to Frost.

[pisces13]

Glitch, you lose.

Obviously you don't know how to warframe. Don't complain about something just because you don't understand how to get around quickly. And if i must explain to you.

 

Run by a wall, hold spacebar, release as your frame touches the wall, he will lauch like a rocket. Ya welcome